How Do You Feel About Circumcision?

[Jeff Wrangler]

Thank you, Katherine.

In no way is the removal of a male's foreskin comparable to the horror of female genital mutilation.

[brokeplex]

As long as I am not the one being circumsized, that is a decision of the parents of the child in question.

[ifyoucantfixit]

       We have just had this father petition the court to have his son circumcised.  He has recently
converted to Judaeism.  The mother is not wanting it to happen.  So far the father who has
custody, has won in court.  \
        Oh by the way the young boy is 12 yrs old....I think that is barbaric.. At that age it should be
purely the choice of the young man...

[Front-Ranger]

Most cultures that practice female circumcision do it on older girls, not infants. But there are other differences.

Female circumcision definitely does generally deny girls lifelong sexual pleasure, literally and almost totally -- in fact, that is largely its purpose. It also inhibits all sorts of normal genital functioning. The procedure can cause severe bleeding, shock, death, infection. The consequences can include pain during sexual intercourse, lifelong problems with urination and menstruation, birth complications often leading fatalities. In some cases it leaves an opening the size of a straw; the husband upon marriage is given a knife to cut it open, and the opening is sewn up again if he is going to be away for a while. Female genital cutting is considered a human rights violation, is opposed by Amnesty International and other human-rights groups, is outlawed in many countries including the U.S. as well as some in which it is traditionally practiced, and in the U.S. is considered a valid basis for granting refugee status.

I don't think it's fair to compare female "cirumcision" -- better known as mutilation or female genital cutting -- with male circumcision. Males who are circumcised do not seem to feel similarly sexually deprived, nor are other functions impeded. It has no larger negative health consequences. In fact, whether one believes this is a valid basis for circumcision or not, studies do suggest some health benefits.

Lee, if you compare what was done to your son to female circumcision, I think you may be suffering more than you need to.

I had no idea how brutal female circumcision is! I thank you for that information, even though it was painful to read. Now, it seems to me that this horrible procedure is more akin to foot binding than the male equivalent. But, I still think male circumcision is a bad idea, overall.

[LauraGigs]

I had no idea how brutal female circumcision is!

You didn't know that, Lee?  Heck yeah.  It's basically the female equivalent of removal of the penis.  At least male circumcision is done in a sanitary manner by qualified professionals.  Female "circumcision" is largely performed by an older female relative with a razor blade (which may or may not be dirty or rusty).  No anesthesia. No joke.

[serious crayons]

You didn't know that, Lee?  Heck yeah.  It's basically the female equivalent of removal of the penis.  At least male circumcision is done in a sanitary manner by qualified professionals.  Female "circumcision" is largely performed by an older female relative with a razor blade (which may or may not be dirty or rusty).  No anesthesia. No joke.

Or a piece of sharp metal or shard of glass.

The custom seems designed to discourage women from being sexually active except when under the control of a husband. When you think of all the millions and millions of girls throughout history who've undergone this torture and mutilation and had their entire lives damaged ... 

From 4women.gov (sponsored by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services):

How many women and girls in the world have been affected by FGC? In the United States?

It is estimated that 130 million girls and women have undergone FGC.Approximately 2 million are subjected to this practice each year worldwide. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), an estimated 168,000 women and girls in the United States had either undergone FGC or were at risk for FGC in 1990. Of these, 48,000 were girls younger than 18 years old.

[brokeplex]

       We have just had this father petition the court to have his son circumcised.  He has recently
converted to Judaeism.  The mother is not wanting it to happen.  So far the father who has
custody, has won in court.  \
        Oh by the way the young boy is 12 yrs old....I think that is barbaric.. At that age it should be
purely the choice of the young man...

I agree with you, 12 years old is way too late for such an operation! Males should be circumcised at birth, if at all. I would leave that decision to the parents as a reflection only of the families religious, or cultural tradition. The cleanliness arguments mostly predate indoor plumbing and ready access to soap. Showers and bathing will solve any cleanliness issues.

On female circumcision, I really don't understand why any parent would require that their female infant be circumcised. I guess there are cultural requirements for that, but it does seem more than a little excessive to do that to a infant female. Perhaps with education as to the negative consequences of female circumcision, parents will make different decisions. Until then I am open to arguments that female circumcision is cruel and should be banned.

[serious crayons]

it is not generally done to infants...it is done in the preteen years....

I am sure Katherine has the ages but the ones I have heard of have been from nine to twelve...

You're right, Jess. That site I mentioned says it's done on infants but most commonly on girls aged 4 to 12.

As for why parents do it, I think it's because they believe it's the right thing to do. Women are the main enforcers. So I guess it's an example of a cultural bias being so strong that even those who are hurt by the bias think it's right. Kind of like Ennis, I guess.

I would say they probably don't even need education on the negative health consequences, because they can see or experience them for themselves. Despite that, they think it's a good idea. Misogynism runs really deep in some cultures.

As Lee said, it's a lot like foot binding, in that people in those cultures view unmutilated female genitals as ugly and consider girls who don't have it done to be "unmarriagable."
 

[Dagi]

As Lee said, it's a lot like foot binding, in that people in those cultures view unmutilated female genitals as ugly and consider girls who don't have it done to be "unmarriagable."
 

"Unmarriageable", and worse, they are considered whores. They risk being complete outcasts.

[serious crayons]

Good point, Jess. From what I've read it's not treated as any kind of noble or sacred rite (as opposed to a bris). It seems done much more in an atmosphere of grim necessity and shame.

It's almost like some kind of particularly horrific hazing ritual. Like the mothers and grandmothers are saying to girls, I had to endure this, so you must, too.