Author Topic: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him  (Read 17619 times)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 06:07:22 pm »
I remember reading in the short story Jack's relating to Ennis about the "peeing" on him when he was a little boy. Maybe the key to understanding is that OMT was using a "rough" way of teaching little Jack an important lesson. "When you have to pee, get to the toilet in time to not soil yourself". I'm not so sure that this is a conscious sign of abuse on the part of OMT. Its kinda crude, and a nasty way to teach a lesson. But I don't see it as anymore complicated than that. Rural folks in that era, could be quick and dirty in teaching life's lessons. And, pee is easily washed off.
That said, I also see the symbolic usage of the peeing, and the lightening, and the hate crime beating that killed Jack.

Offline Shuggy

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 03:25:11 am »
Quote
I'm not so sure that this is a conscious sign of abuse on the part of OMT. Its kinda crude, and a nasty way to teach a lesson. But I don't see it as anymore complicated than that. Rural folks in that era, could be quick and dirty in teaching life's lessons. And, pee is easily washed off.
Maybe, and in that case it proved to be more abusive than OMT intended, since it was at that moment that he discovered he was crucially different from his father, and so could never get close to him. (There is also the question why he was cut when his father was not - whose idea was that? - though it's been suggested OMT was away at WW2 at the time, and mothers were commonly pressured by doctors, or not even asked).
Anyway, I'm reasonably sure it could not go where it was in the story, as Ennis goes upstairs, because the flow (of the story  :-\ ) is too certain by then, but it could have gone much earlier when they were getting close, as a flashback from Jack telling Ennis about it.

Offline Artiste

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 10:21:32 am »
Wow, all of you present views which are very varied! I like that a lot!!

It seems to me that fathers are rarely treated as good ones in films, as neither are Ennis and Jack's in the BM film!!  The peeing mention in Annie's story, as well as in the film, is exential in both, for me!! As a spectator to understand not only the times (before, during and after the sixties, but also how Ennis and Jack become to accept and love) each other, since each grew up nearly alone mentally in some ways, and that makes it surely a common thought for bonding!! I was always surprised and shocked that Ennis allows Jack to kiss him in that second tent scene of tenderness, and much more so when Ennis does kiss Jack!! Why? The pissing acts helped??

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Offline brokeplex

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 10:46:44 am »
(There is also the question why he was cut when his father was not - whose idea was that? - though it's been suggested OMT was away at WW2 at the time, and mothers were commonly pressured by doctors, or not even asked).

On the issue of Jack's circumcision and OMT remaining intact, I have a suspision which I shared on another thread that Jack was adopted as an infant by the Twists. Perhaps adopted out of necessity rather than choice. Perhaps an unwanted pregnancy occured and the product was Jack, the Twists had no children, and took in Jack. Maybe OMT began to resent Jack thru the years. I remember in the short story in the scene in OMT's kitchen, the narrator says something like: Ennis couldn't see much of Jack in either of them (the Twists).And, it tends to be the case that infant males are circumcized if the father is, left intact if the father is intact.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 10:50:50 am »

I had another random thought/ question about the whole "peeing" topic related to the film of BBM just now.  This is a very long stretch and maybe grasping at straws... but, the filmmakers seemed to go out of their way to depict Jack himself peeing during the '63 summer.  Do you think this was a very, very veiled/ distant reference to the peeing topic in the story?
 ??? :-\
You could be right, Amanda. It seemed like the creators of the movie went a long ways to try to work details of the story into the movie and it's interesting to see how things got moved around. For instance, the whole prologue was moved to the end of the story, and the last day tussle back into chronological order.

You have a good point also, Artiste. It seems like Jack and Ennis were father figures to each other, another one of those lovable subtle details.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2007, 10:54:10 am »
I always took Jack's peeing in the movie as a reference to the night in the story when they sat around talking, "getting up every now and then to piss, firelight throwing a sparkle into the arched stream."

I wonder why we don't have a thread on body fluids -- pee, spit, tears, blood ... Or do we already?



Offline Artiste

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2007, 11:03:32 am »
Thanks Front-Ranger!

Yes, in a way, each was a father to the other; consulting and consoling!! (Are those the words??)

I can understand the pissing scenes or mention, as manly somehow, in order to relate to each other: male to male!!  (I have seen something like Jack's father did, in my life!!)

What puzzles me more is that Ennis and Jack are now fathers caring more now about their children?? !! Evidently so!! But I question this too?? !! Did the pissing scenes helped them become better men as more caring than their fathers??

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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 11:18:19 am »
I always took Jack's peeing in the movie as a reference to the night in the story when they sat around talking, "getting up every now and then to piss, firelight throwing a sparkle into the arched stream."

Me too.
But I think Artiste may also have a point here. Very manly thing to do, the way Jack stands there, followed by the showing off of the belt buckle he won. Yes, I think male bonding also plays a role here.

Quote
I wonder why we don't have a thread on body fluids -- pee, spit, tears, blood ... Or do we already?

I think we do. Can't remember the title from the top of my head, but I think FRiend Lee started it. Maybe the tilte was something like "Talking about the nasty/unpleasant ... whatever". I'll look later for it.

Or was it "Blood, spit and tears" ot something similar to it? Dang, I almost remember it.

Offline Artiste

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2007, 11:30:26 am »
Thanks Penthesilea!

I agree that Jack pissing in the BM film is important. One must remember too that Jack show off in a way his crotch with his belt buckle as he stands in front of Ennis who is sitting down and looking!! Is that in a way a manly way to introduce the idea of sex??

It seems so to me!! To you ??

Hugs!!

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: The story flashback about Jack's dad peeing on him
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2007, 11:50:19 am »
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From K:
I wonder why we don't have a thread on body fluids -- pee, spit, tears, blood ... Or do we already?

Quote
From me:
I think we do. Can't remember the title from the top of my head, but I think FRiend Lee started it. Maybe the tilte was something like "Talking about the nasty/unpleasant ... whatever". I'll look later for it.

Or was it "Blood, spit and tears" ot something similar to it? Dang, I almost remember it.


I found it!  :) It is "Life and this movie are messy" and was started by Lee. That's Lee's introduction to the topic:

This is all about sweat, tears, blood, rain, snow, hail, and runny noses.

And here it is:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,3130.0.html