TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain

[Penthesilea]

Hi everybody 

First, I shortened the TOTW, since the question is too long for the headline. For the long version see below  .

One scene that long bothered me in the movie is their last day on the mountain. After all this time and discussions, I still can't figure out their (re)actions fully and especially Jacks (seemingly?) nonchalance is an enigma to me.

Did Jack and Ennis misunderstand each other's feelings on their last day on the mountain?

Did Jack underrate Ennis's reaction to the news of "Bring them down"? Did he await to see Ennis soon again, or to not even part to begin with? Did Ennis misinterpret Jack's nonchalance? What about Jack's offer to lend money to Ennis? Do you think everything from Ennis coming into the camp to Jack driving away and Ennis crouching down in the alley took place in one day at all? Or maybe in two days?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I think Jack was resigned to the enevitable departure, in fact he seems to have grown somewhat emotionally, he was much more of a braggart before he and Ennis got together.

Ennis still thought he had another month and was emotionally unprepared for this development. Feelings he had ignored rose to the surface suddenly, and the gut started cramping.

FWIW.

[Scott6373]

It would seem implausible to me that either one of them, aside from the common knowledge of "queers", knew, or even remotely understood what was happening between them.  Nevertheless, I think they both felt the same way about what had happened (deep down, in the places that neither wanted to go) that summer, and though they could not verbalize what they were feeling, I don't think there was misunderstanding.  In fact, I think they both understood implicitly, that with the end of the summer, came the end of their relationship.  Sure, Jack may have dreamed or hoped, but in neither the book or movie did he say anything that would lead someone to believe that what happened on the mountain would continue.

[tamarack]

but in neither the book or movie did he say anything that would lead someone to believe that what happened on the mountain would continue.

Except, maybe, for "...spare you a loan, bud..." which would kind of imply that there was perhaps an expectation, at least a hope, that they would see each other again - or that the relationship would just continue once they got down. That would account for Jack's nonchalance. Perhaps he didn't see it as an ending, just a change of location, at least at the point in time that he offered to loan the money.

As far as how much time was involved in bringin' 'em down, I've always thought that there had to be one overnight stay, but there isn't anything in the story that would indicate that. (Now, if they were doing it in Alberta I'd say that they could have done it in one day, because the days up there are really long, but in Wyoming? I doubt it.)

[brokeplex]

Hi everybody 

First, I shortened the TOTW, since the question is too long for the headline. For the long version see below  .

One scene that long bothered me in the movie is their last day on the mountain. After all this time and discussions, I still can't figure out their (re)actions fully and especially Jacks (seemingly?) nonchalance is an enigma to me.

Did Jack and Ennis misunderstand each other's feelings on their last day on the mountain?

Did Jack underrate Ennis's reaction to the news of "Bring them down"? Did he await to see Ennis soon again, or to not even part to begin with? Did Ennis misinterpret Jack's nonchalance? What about Jack's offer to lend money to Ennis? Do you think everything from Ennis coming into the camp to Jack driving away and Ennis crouching down in the alley took place in one day at all? Or maybe in two days?

I too have wondered about those last two days during and after "shove down". I have long wished that Jack had been more agressive and at least asked for a contact number for Ennis, or given him his Dad's address in Lightening Flat. Perhaps his offer of a loan as an indirect attempt at a continuing connection. He didn't count on Ennis's wounded pride, "I ain't in the poor house,you know!".I don't see Jack as entirely nonchalant about the parting.It really hurts to see the pain in Jacks face as he drives away from Ennis and watches Ennis in the rearview mirror. And of course Ennis's brutal reaction to Jack's playing rodeo and later to heaving in the alley show that he had very deep emotions at play.  I think the reason neither could make the move to keep a permanent connection alive back in 1963 was their mutual denial. As long as their love was on the mountain top only, a "one-shot thing", they could both deny being "queer". But love is a "force of nature" and they did reconnect!!! And, eventually, if you live long enough you can begin to accept yourself. Perhaps that was the direction in which Jack had moved by the time of his murder in 1983. If only Ennis could have begun the journey while Jack was alive.

[Penthesilea]

I don't see Jack as entirely nonchalant about the parting.It really hurts to see the pain in Jacks face as he drives away from Ennis and watches Ennis in the rearview mirror.

Oh, of course you're right here. Jack did not seem nonchalant at all once they were at the parking lot. "You do this again next summer?" "I might be back..." And that look on his face. No, not indifferent at all.
What I meant where his actions when Ennis comes into the camp and Jack breaks the news to him. He first tells about his uncle and only casually mentions that Aguirre said "Bring 'em down". Even when Ennis clearly is upset about it and asks why, he stays unconcerned (storm moving in from the Pacific...).
In this sequence, I still don't get him.

A little later, we see Ennis sulking on the hill and Jack affixing something on his horse. He looks over to Ennis, takes his lariat and then we see him in close-up:

 

Again: not nonchalant and indifferent, but thinking and caring. There I think they clearly misunderstand each other: Jack wants to cheer Ennis up, but Ennis is not accessible to this attempt at all. I believe Ennis can't understand why Jack was first so indifferent about the news (I can't understand it either) and then is so seemingly in a good and playful mood. Like he had no worry in the world. Whereas Ennis is totally confliced and clearly shows it. I think from Ennis's POV Jack seems unconcerned and therefore insensitive. Big misunderstanding, imo.

[tamarack]

He first tells about his uncle and only casually mentions that Aguirre said "Bring 'em down". Even when Ennis clearly is upset about it and asks why, he stays unconcerned (storm moving in from the Pacific...).

then is so seemingly in a good and playful mood. Like he had no worry in the world. 

I agree that Ennis is really caught off guard by this turn of events. His attitude and actions are a lot clearer than Jack's. But I think that what I quoted above is just one more indication that, as far as Jack was concerned, this was not the end of the relationship. It wasn't until Ennis reacted the way he did that Jack starting trying to hold on to what he then knew was slipping away (by taking Ennis' shirt, since he wasn't feeling too confident any more about having Ennis, and then the hesitant, but hopeful, suggestion about next summer.)

[huntinbuddy]

I took quite a bit away from that whole scene from where Ennis comes down from watching the sheep and Jack is taking down the tent, and tells Ennis in what seemed rather nonchalant that Aguirre says bring 'em down. 

Ennis gets all bent out of shape, not so much about Jacks comment about money, because he knows that he won't be seeing Jack after they leave the mountain.  Ennis knows the romantic feelings he has for Jack have no place in the "real world", as he understands it.  So when Ennis hears they have to leave early, he thinks it's over.

Jack on the other hand is less upset, because he's under the impression they will continue to see each other somehow, such as "doing this again next summer."  Jack was always the optimistic one, he believes, however naively, that what they started and had together up on Brokeback will continue on in the "real world."
 
 

[brokeplex]

I took quite a bit away from that whole scene from where Ennis comes down from watching the sheep and Jack is taking down the tent, and tells Ennis in what seemed rather nonchalant that Aguirre says bring 'em down. 

Ennis gets all bent out of shape, not so much about Jacks comment about money, because he knows that he won't be seeing Jack after they leave the mountain.  Ennis knows the romantic feelings he has for Jack have no place in the "real world", as he understands it.  So when Ennis hears they have to leave early, he thinks it's over.

Jack on the other hand is less upset, because he's under the impression they will continue to see each other somehow, such as "doing this again next summer."  Jack was always the optimistic one, he believes, however naively, that what they started and had together up on Brokeback will continue on in the "real world."
 
 

Great comments, but don't underestimate Ennis's pride about "not being in the poorhouse". That comment on his part is included in the story along with the earlier comments about growing up in poverty after the "bank took the ranch" for a reason. Ennis really felt defensive about this issue. Remember later in 1977 Ennis is shown as irritated when Jack is talking about Lureen's financial manipulations, and later in 1983 in their final painful scene together, he reminds Jack that he (Ennis) still has to work to pay off child support. But,I agree that Ennis clearly is feeling confusion and anger at his impending departure from Jack. Does Jack realistically hope to see Ennis again, next summer. I'm not so sure, if he had realistic hopes, wouldn't he have asked for an address to write Ennis a line, or maybe asked the date of the wedding. I think the offer of the loan was in his mind his last hope to keep in touch with Ennis. If he had advanced Ennis some money, he would have had expectations that Ennis would pay it back and be forced to contact him. Now that begs the question, where is Jack getting this extra money? Jack wasn't rolling in the dough either. I think he was desperate to see Ennis, but Jack's pride and denial kept him from being more straightforward in forcing the issue of exchanging addresses or telephone numbers. Jack couldn't face rejection. That is why the scene when Jack drives away and sees the fading mirror image of Ennis is so powerful to me. I want to cry out, "STOP, turn around and make sure that you keep in contact with Ennis!" 

[tenn_man]

Could it be that they are just 19 or 20 years old , and have not fully stepped into the shoes of experienced adult people like ourselves, who are trying to place rational reasons on all of their actions??  Speaking for myself, I did many things at that age that would now seem odd, or impetuous.  I think men, especially under their circumstances and in 1963, might well do and say the things that they did.  I think Ennis was hurt and confused, and I think Jack was using whatever familiar means he knew (lasso), to reach out and grab Ennis.  It was a simple gesture, at first meant to say "I love you and want you to be with me"  or, " Hey, its not so bad, we still have each other", and in the turmoil of youthful innocence, turned into the playful brawl of boys.  Two men, very young, unable to cope with their feelings, expressing adult emotions, but not yet skilled.  Many of us have been through this.   I do not see the  same hidden meanings in these scenes as others suggest.  To me it is very simple.  I feel what they feel.  They express it as boys do.  The simple emotion is still beautiful at this point of the movie.  The shirts are a testament to the this youthful innocent bliss. One of the most powerful statements from beginning to end.

[jstephens9]

I am going to watch that scene today so I better answer the question 

[brokeplex]

Could it be that they are just 19 or 20 years old , and have not fully stepped into the shoes of experienced adult people like ourselves, who are trying to place rational reasons on all of their actions??  Speaking for myself, I did many things at that age that would now seem odd, or impetuous.  I think men, especially under their circumstances and in 1963, might well do and say the things that they did.  I think Ennis was hurt and confused, and I think Jack was using whatever familiar means he knew (lasso), to reach out and grab Ennis.  It was a simple gesture, at first meant to say "I love you and want you to be with me"  or, " Hey, its not so bad, we still have each other", and in the turmoil of youthful innocence, turned into the playful brawl of boys.  Two men, very young, unable to cope with their feelings, expressing adult emotions, but not yet skilled.  Many of us have been through this.   I do not see the  same hidden meanings in these scenes as others suggest.  To me it is very simple.  I feel what they feel.  They express it as boys do.  The simple emotion is still beautiful at this point of the movie.  The shirts are a testament to the this youthful innocent bliss. One of the most powerful statements from beginning to end.

Hi! Welcome to Bettermost! I hope you love it here as much as I do. I think that what you wrote is on target, you know its been quite a while since I was that age....Gerald Ford was still President when I was 19! Way back in the Paleolithic disco era..... I'm glad you reminded me, you are right, young men would behave that way without many rationalizations on their part. I certainly did.

[jstephens9]

I watched the scene again and as usual watching any part of Brokeback brings back these feelings  Anyway, I definitely think that Ennis is not angry about leaving because of the money or anything like that. He is angry and hurt because to him his time with Jack is over and in his mind there is nothing he can do about it. Jack on the other hand almost seems to act as if his time with Ennis is not over. It is almost like he feels things will just continue. It just doesn't seem to strike Jack that leaving the mountain will lead to him being separated from Ennis. Of course, he does take the shirt with him which could be taken as meaning a souvenir to remind him of the times with Ennis on Brokeback. But that does not necessarily mean that he thinks it is the end of he and Ennis. It is very common for people to take some kind of souvenir with them of a special time or place. I don't really feel that it truly hits Jack until when he gets his truck started. It's almost as if he has it in his mind that Ennis might jump in the truck and go with him. It's almost as if that thought goes through Ennis as well during his hesitation after Jack asks him what he is going to do. Of course, the real world Ennis is in takes over almost as if he has to go and marry Alma, not necessarily that he wants to. Those are just the plans and it is almost like Ennis is locked there and can never escape what his life dictates he does. As Jack leaves looking back at Ennis through the side mirror it seems to represent the first time Jack has to leave without Ennis and of course there will be many more times.

I'm really not sure if those scenes were doing one or two days. It makes sense that it would be two days, but Jack is taking the tent down so where did they stay that night. The scene where he lassos Ennis and says "Time to go cowboy" suggests that everything occurred during one day.

Jack

[brokeplex]

I'm really not sure if those scenes were doing one or two days. It makes sense that it would be two days, but Jack is taking the tent down so where did they stay that night. The scene where he lassos Ennis and says "Time to go cowboy" suggests that everything occurred during one day.

Jack

My ranching buddies that I met up in Montana this summer tell me that "shovedown" off a mountain the size of the one pictured in Brokeback moving 1000 plus sheep down to jumpoff and into the trucks or railcars is probably going to take 1 1/2 to 2 days. In the short story AP mentions that they ate something in Dubois before they go their "separate ways". I think that it is safe to say that the process from Ennis seeing Jack take down the "lovetent" to Jack driving away from Ennis in Signal is definitely at least 2 days. 

[jstephens9]

That definitely makes sense to me. It seems like that would be way too little time to do all of those things, but the movie kind of makes it look like that.

[Penthesilea]

According to Annie, the angry tussle, ending with the punch, took place in the afternoon. It's in the last few pages of the story, when Ennis discovers the shirts in Jack's closet and remembers the scene:

"Jack's old shirt from Brokeback days. The dried blood on the sleeve was his own blood, a gushing nosebleed on the last afternoon on the mountain when Jack, in their contortionistic grappling and wrestling, had slammed Ennis's nose hard with his knee."

I guess they wouldn't have started taking the sheep down in the afternoon, but maybe they had broken the camp (except for the most necessary things) one day and started their way down with the sheep the next morning. Or maybe the angry tussle+punch did not take place where their camp had been, but they were already on their way downwards to meet to trucks and other men.

[Luvlylittlewing]

Could it be that they are just 19 or 20 years old , and have not fully stepped into the shoes of experienced adult people like ourselves, who are trying to place rational reasons on all of their actions??  Speaking for myself, I did many things at that age that would now seem odd, or impetuous.  I think men, especially under their circumstances and in 1963, might well do and say the things that they did.  I think Ennis was hurt and confused, and I think Jack was using whatever familiar means he knew (lasso), to reach out and grab Ennis.  It was a simple gesture, at first meant to say "I love you and want you to be with me"  or, " Hey, its not so bad, we still have each other", and in the turmoil of youthful innocence, turned into the playful brawl of boys.  Two men, very young, unable to cope with their feelings, expressing adult emotions, but not yet skilled.  Many of us have been through this.   I do not see the  same hidden meanings in these scenes as others suggest.  To me it is very simple.  I feel what they feel.  They express it as boys do.  The simple emotion is still beautiful at this point of the movie.  The shirts are a testament to the this youthful innocent bliss. One of the most powerful statements from beginning to end.

What a heart achingly beautiful post, tenn man!  I'm crying, I swear I am!

[Front-Ranger]

It suddenly struck me today: What happened to the pup tent when Joe Aguirre said to "bring 'em down"?? Did it stay up there on the mountain all winter? No wonder it smelled like cat piss or worse!!

[Marina]

Could it be that they are just 19 or 20 years old , and have not fully stepped into the shoes of experienced adult people like ourselves, who are trying to place rational reasons on all of their actions??  Speaking for myself, I did many things at that age that would now seem odd, or impetuous.  I think men, especially under their circumstances and in 1963, might well do and say the things that they did.  I think Ennis was hurt and confused, and I think Jack was using whatever familiar means he knew (lasso), to reach out and grab Ennis.  It was a simple gesture, at first meant to say "I love you and want you to be with me"  or, " Hey, its not so bad, we still have each other", and in the turmoil of youthful innocence, turned into the playful brawl of boys.  Two men, very young, unable to cope with their feelings, expressing adult emotions, but not yet skilled.  Many of us have been through this.   I do not see the  same hidden meanings in these scenes as others suggest.  To me it is very simple.  I feel what they feel.  They express it as boys do.  The simple emotion is still beautiful at this point of the movie.  The shirts are a testament to the this youthful innocent bliss. One of the most powerful statements from beginning to end.

ITA, I saw it exactly this way, and I can totally identify as well.   

There are so many powerful scenes in this movie, and the leaving scene is one of them.  I haven't watched Brokeback in awhile now, so I hope I remember correctly.   So many emotions are expressed on Jacks face, and when he finally leaves in the truck, I can see him take a breath as if to bear it and accept it.   Jack had so much strength, even helping Ennis to stand it at times.  Ennis has more trouble - for all his stoic behavior - he really had a lot of passion under the suface, and sometimes he just couldn't hide it.

[Sason]

It suddenly struck me today: What happened to the pup tent when Joe Aguirre said to "bring 'em down"?? Did it stay up there on the mountain all winter? No wonder it smelled like cat piss or worse!!

Didn't Aguirre tell them to not leave the tent behind?

I'm guessing Ennis brought it down with him.

(i'm too tired now to check the movie)

[chowhound]

Didn't Aguirre tell them to not leave the tent behind?

I'm guessing Ennis brought it down with him.

(i'm too tired now to check the movie)

When Ennis rides into the "base camp" he finds Jack starting to dismantle it. When he asks Jack why, Jack explains that Aguirre had been by and ordered them to bring the sheep down. Presumably, once the dismantling of the base camp had been completed, both of them would have had to return to where the sheep were pastured in order to "bring 'em down". When there, I would assume they dismantled the pup rent and brought that down with them as well. I assume Aguirre supplied the tents and other equipment and wouldn't appreciate part of his property being abandoned way up on Brokeback.

[Sason]

When Ennis rides into the "base camp" he finds Jack starting to dismantle it. When he asks Jack why, Jack explains that Aguirre had been by and ordered them to bring the sheep down. Presumably, once the dismantling of the base camp had been completed, both of them would have had to return to where the sheep were pastured in order to "bring 'em down". When there, I would assume they dismantled the pup rent and brought that down with them as well. I assume Aguirre supplied the tents and other equipment and wouldn't appreciate part of his property being abandoned way up on Brokeback.

Sounds very likely to me.