Author Topic: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...  (Read 18892 times)

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« on: November 07, 2007, 09:08:50 pm »
Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40   1 day ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 07:23:28)
   
      
UPDATED Thu Sep 20 2007 07:31:14
Joe Aguirre: "Twist, your Uncle Harold's in the hospital with pneumonia. Docs don't expect he'll make it. (pause)
Your ma sent me to tell you. So here I am."


Jack Twist: "Got your message about the divorce... So... here I am."


These two scenes are connected by "so here I am".

In the first 'so here I am" scene, Joe Aguirre is the reluctant messenger. The message is delivered after he has witnessed Jack and Ennis intimately horsing around, and his chooses to withhold from Jack what he has overseen just minutes before. Jack is unaware of having been observed.

In the reunion scene, Ennis and Jack kiss open-mouthed, watched by Alma who also chooses to withhold from the two what she has overseen just minutes before. Ennis is aware that the kiss may have been overseen by Alma (as indicated in the short story), but seems fully overtaken by his emotions and is willing to let the pieces fall where they may. Alma sees what she sees, and closes the apartment door. In this relationship triangle, she is the odd man out. To emphasize the point, the door closes and reveals the number "2" on the door. Ennis is aware that the kiss may have been overseen by Alma (as indicated in the short story), but seems fully overtaken by his emotions and is willing to let the pieces fall where they may and deal with things later.

In the second 'so here I am" scene, Jack is an eager messenger. Ennis is not eager to hear the message and is keenly aware of being watched by his children in the car, and by the truck that passes in the background. Jack's tongue circles his lips, hungry for the missing open-mouthed kiss of his and Ennis's first reunion (and their open-mouthed kiss of tent scene 2), a sad and painful echo linking this to both of these intimate scenes. No open mouth meets Jack's in this scene, and with Ennis and Alma's marriage no longer a barrier between them, Jack drives away in despair.







Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by latjoreme   1 day ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 09:01:53)   

   
Good thread, GeorgeOS! Those two "so here I am" scenes have several things in common. Both involve someone peering off into the distance -- in both, Jack follows their gaze to see what they're looking at, then realizes something. Both involve someone having to choose between family and lover -- in one, Jack chooses lover, in the other, Ennis chooses family.

I wonder why they are linked. Is there some message contained in the fact that these otherwise dissimilar scenes would contain these common elements?

Maybe it has something to do with the mysterious Uncle Harold. Uncle Harold appears to be in mortal danger. Jack, seeing Aguirre's binoculars and realizing that they could have been watched, nevertheless takes a risk, choosing to be with Ennis. Yet everything works out fine, nobody dies after all. "Herald" means to proclaim, announce, foreshadow, presage. Uncle Harold has heralded the news that two men being together needn't spell doom.

But Ennis doesn't heed that message. Years later, he still assumes that choosing to be with Jack is too dangerous. He sees the white truck, realizes they could be being watched, and won't take the risk. But Ennis doesn't notice a crow flying past, a warning that choosing the other path is no guarantee of safety. This time, despite Ennis' precautions, somebody eventually will die.




Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40   23 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 09:55:07)
   
      
Many scenes link across the film like harmonic chords.

Ennis's despair in an alley after the two men separate, links to Jack's despair in an alley in Mexico.

The carved animal at the beginning of the film (innocence? something begun?) links to the carved animal at the end (an heroic ideal? something lost?).

These links function like harmonic echoes across the story, and are an important part of its haunting beauty.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by videotvguy   23 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 10:31:45)   

Very interesting thread, in the short story Aguirre saw them having sex, the short story it's more big about it.
Here i am, i agree with the idea of an echoe, but at the same time, it's like a messenger with a bad taste in the mouth, in the first place, Aguirre just can't believe that Jack and Ennis are lovers or gays, in the second scene Jack Twist had a bad taste after Ennis disagree with the idea of live together finally.
The alley scene isn't complete without the background sound (quizas, quizas)according with spanish language people, it's a version of Perphaps, perphaps, almost like the mind thoughts of Jack.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40   22 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 10:39:44)
   
      
UPDATED Thu Sep 20 2007 13:15:37
Ennis in the alley is overcome by a sense of loss when he separates from Jack. He hides in the alley as the emotions he tries to deny overtake him.

In the post divorce rejection scene, Jack takes off for Mexico where his despair takes very different form also in an alley. The fact that both happen in an alley, even though they are separated, solidly links these two scenes to each other.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by NewHorizons37   20 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 13:07:57)
   
   
George, there are many "bookends" in the movie, which I absolutely agree with you add to its beauty. There was once a thread about them, but I don't recall seeing the two alley scenes connected in this way. Well done.

One of my favorite bookends: at the very beginning, Ennis is in a vehicle that is moving right to left across the screen in the darkness, and all he has with him is the paper bag with his belongings.

At the end, Ennis is driving home after visiting Jack's parents, going from left to right in the darkness, and he again has a paper bag -- this time with the shirts.

And the shirt that Jack stole is in the paper bag in both scenes.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by latjoreme   19 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 13:36:49)   

   
George, I agree with NewHorizons. I've seen lots of discussions of bookends, echoes, mirrors, inkblots, palindromes -- remember how for a while there was even a bookend-game thread? -- but I don't think I've seen the alley scenes connected that way before, either.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by TheFullMontyClift   18 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 14:57:12)   
   

Also note the scene where Ennis is led to dead Earl along the ravine. It has a look to it that seems to evoke the imagery of Jack walking down the dark alley with the male prostitute.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by TheFullMontyClift   18 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 15:22:08)



Hi GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40 –

Very good thread. I have also thought about these words – often. They are too obviously used and reused for there to be no connection.

In the Uncle Harold scene, Aguirre says:

“Twist, your Uncle Harold’s in the hospital with pneumonia. Docs don’t expect he’ll make it. Your ma sent me to tell you. So here I am.”

In the Post-Divorce scene, Jack says:

“I got your card the divorce came through. So, here I am. Had to ask about ten different people in Riverton where you had moved to.”

We’ve often talked about how these two scenes are connected in numerous ways. However, there are two other scenes that are connected by a character explaining how/why s/he arrived where s/he did:

At the 1978 benefit dinner for the Childress County Children’s Home, Lashawn Malone says:

“…and then I pledged Tri Delt at SMU and I sure never thought I’d end up in a pokey little place like Childress, but then I met old Randall here at an Aggie game, and he was an animal husbandry major, so we been here for a month, and he got the foreman job over at Roy Taylor’s ranch. Like it or not, here I am!” [bold, mine]

During the Yee-Haw scene, Ennis says:

“They did the best they could after my folks was gone considerin’ they didn’t leave us nothin’ but $24 in a coffee can. I got me a year a high school before the transmission went on the pickup. Then my sis left, married a roughneck, moved to Casper, and me and my brother we, we went and got ourselves some work on a ranch up near Worland ‘til I was nineteen. Then he got married and uh, no more room for me. And that’s how come me end up here.” [bold, mine]

I find these two scenes linked together in a number of ways. For the purposes of this, it can be useful to sometimes view Randall and Lashawn as one character since each delivers certain information that’s useful to Jack and because Jack “mixes them up” when he tells Ennis about the ranch foreman’s wife. We could call this character “LaRandall.” (Ha ha! That slays me!  ) So, sometimes when it’s important that the information coming to Jack is coming from the one character, “LaRandall” without a distinction between Lashawn and Randall, I’ll simply say “LaRandall.” Also, I’m going to flip-flop between scenes here. The Jack and Ennis scenes are tightly grouped from the shooting of the elk to the Tent Don’t Look Right scene.

LaRandall went to college and then came into Jack’s life by the truck breaking down. Ennis couldn’t finish school because his truck broke down and a truck brought Jack and Ennis together. Ennis couldn’t fix his truck (no money), even though he could fix Jack’s truck later – he got him on a road away from Ennis. Randall couldn’t fix the truck, but offered to get Jack on a new road – away from Ennis, with Randall. Randall would need more than chewing gum and baling wire to fix the truck, to fix that which kept him from getting where he was going. Ennis is shown as a chewer in the film. After they kill the elk, we didn’t need to see a scene that just simply shows Jack and Ennis chewing elk. We could have seen the shoot and then the elk meat hanging to know that Ennis did something nice for Jack – actually, he gave Jack a substitute for the soup, a substitute for the sweet life together. But AL put that chewing scene in almost as a punctuating exclamation point to get across the point that Ennis shooting the elk and then sharing in it with Jack is a major element. Plus, we get to see Ennis hungrily chewing his elk. We also see him chewing the beans and his apple pie. Plus, at the drive-in, he is chewing gum. He’s a chewer. He’ll chew with Jack. He’ll chew with Alma. He’ll chew alone. But once Jack is gone, he won’t chew – the cherry cake. LaRandall also mentioned baling wire. Running the baler is the reason Ennis gives for not being able to make their meeting in August (short story). LaRandall informs that chewing gum and baling wire won’t help one get where one needs to go. Ennis, the chewer, uses the excuse of the baler to keep them apart, to not get where they should be going – the relationship.

Just before the Yee-Haw scene (where Ennis explains how he ended up there), Jack complains about “commutin’” and that’s why Ennis offers the job switch, a change. LaRandall complains about the truck breaking down and then offers a change to Jack (Jack plus Randall at Lake Kemp). So Jack and Ennis switch jobs and Jack watches Ennis ride off. After Jack tells Ennis about LaRandall (a change or switch), Jack watches Ennis drive off. When Ennis comes back from his night with the sheep he puffs his masculine chest by telling about killing the coyote making a reference to its balls. Jack then puffs his masculine chest by flicking his rodeo belt buckle. Contrast this to Randall being characterized as “not very mechanical” and Jack being demasculinized (emasculated) by Lureen asking about husbands never dancing with their wives. Ennis and Jack puffed up their masculinity, Randall and Jack had it stripped away.

In the scene where Ennis boasts about the coyote, Jack spills the beans on himself. In the scene with LaRandall, Jack spills the cigarette ash on himself. Then there is the enticement of Ennis washing up in front of Jack without Jack actually looking. Compare this to Randall enticing Jack with Roy Taylor’s cabin and Jack stares off into the distance instead of looking at Randall. It’s after the spilled beans and the washing up that Ennis explains how he got to the mountain – at Jack’s prodding. It’s the most he’s spoken in a year. At the dinner-dance, we see that LaRandall is a chatterbox offering the information with no prodding. Randall had been in Childress a once before he made a pass at Jack. Jack and Ennis were on the mountain for a month before Jack made a pass at Ennis.

LaRandall came together as a complete character (Lashawn + Randall) at a football game. Alma, Jr. did not come together with Troy over baseball. Both games involve a ball and this is a clear reference to the two balls of the coyote. In one game, the ball is kicked just as Ennis fears getting stomped; in the other game, the ball is hit with a bat. Bats are spooky and Ennis’ horse was spooked by the bear and this is an imagery of Ennis being spooked. Bats are the spookiest creatures. This is why Brue Wayne chose to be Batman – because the bat is so spooky. And Ennis, as Heath, is in the new Batman movie. It all ties together so neatly. (OK—this last paragraph was just for fun. You gotta have fun with these things sometimes.  )

Back to serious business…

After the Yee-Haw scene, we see them switch camps and Ennis says that the tent don’t look right and Jack plays his harmonica, foreshadowing his death (“He was a Friend of Mine”). After the dinner-dance, we see Ennis and Jack in their tent. But it doesn’t look right. They have all of their clothes on, there is no sex and there is no full moon. The thought of a coming snow foreshadows Jack’s death, as does the dying of the batteries on the radio in the short story – no more music. The camp switching leads directly into them coming together. This was presaged by all of the scenes from the job switch forward. All of these scenes are mirrored in the LaRandall scenes. Randall offers the switch. No false bravado of masculinity needed. The spillings. The contrast in talkativeness. The compare/contrast to Ennis through the trucks, chewing, and baling. The enticements. The switch offered by Randall leads to (?) a switch in relationship partner for Jack. Lureen makes a contrast (“Oh, you was Tri Delt? I was Kappa Phi myself.”) while Lashawn makes a comparison (“Well, even though we ain’t quite sorority sisters, we just may have to dance with ourselves, Lureen. Our husbands ain’t the least bit interested in dancin’…”) punctuating the compare/contrast relationship of this scene with the scenes between Jack and Ennis on the mountain. But then Lashawn continues: “…they ain’t got a smidgin of rhythm between ‘em.” And this statement ties everything together. Regardless of all of the comparisons and contrast between the scenes and the characters, there is, in fact, rhythm between them – homosexual rhythm – just as there was between Jack and Ennis, so too for Jack and Randall.

In rural Wyoming of 1963-1983, homosexual rhythm was not a part of “family.” The notion of “family” is what connects all of the four “Here I am” scenes together. The common element in all of the scenes is Jack. Jack had three aspects of family brought to his attention by three characters. First, Ennis told about how he lost all family. Second, Aguirre reminded Jack of his blood family. Finally, LaRandall talked about a man and woman coming together to form a family (“…but then I met old Randall here at an Aggie game, and he was an animal husbandry major, so we been here a month…” and “Thank you for asking me to dance with you. I appreciate that. Randall never does, last time he did was at our wedding…”)

Jack wanted to get away from his blood family. But he could not break the bond (the natural bond, the bond by nature) to his blood family. He wanted to get away from his old man, but he kept going back to help out, but it didn’t matter – his father still was not pleased. Uncle Harold represents a tie to the blood family and Jack rejected his role in it by not going home by his own choice, but it didn’t matter – Uncle Harold didn’t die anyway. Jack rejected being a part of his blood family by wanting his ashes scattered on Brokeback instead of in the family plot, but it didn’t matter – his father made sure Jack was going into the family plot. As a force of nature toward blood family, his blood family would not let go of Jack.

Jack formed his own man/woman family. But he was willing to reject it. He told Ennis he would leave his marriage family to start the cow-and-calf operation, but Ennis reminded Jack of his family obligations. Jack even did reject his marriage family by going to Ennis in the Post-Divorce scene, only to have to return to it. Jack wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback, but Lureen had them interred in Childress. As a force of nature toward marriage family, his marriage family would not let go of Jack.

Jack tried to set up the family that he really wanted – not a blood family, and not a marriage family, but a homosexual rhythm family (to relate back to the imagery set up by LaRandall). He tried for it at the River Reunion and Post-Divorce scenes. In a sort of fantasy life kind of way, he actually tried to set up his family with Ennis by keeping the shirts in the closet of his boyhood bedroom – a bedroom that could have been theirs by claim through blood family inheritance.

Aguirre’s “Here I am” images the blood family that Jack was a part of. LaRandall’s “Here I am” images the marriage family that Jack was a part of. Jack’s “Here I am” images the homosexual family he wanted to be a part of. In these three scenes, the exact same words are used: “Here I am.” But Ennis made a similar statement, using different words: “me end up here.” Ennis’ words image the loss of all family. For each character, whether he wanted it or not (“like it or not”), circumstances placed that character where he ended up. Aguirre ended up there because a message about Uncle Harold landed in his lap. Jack ended up at Ennis’ post-divorce home because a message ended up in his lap. Ennis ended up on the mountain because of his loss of all family. LaRandall ended up in Childress because of a formation of a family.

And here’s where the mirror comes in. Chronologically, the four scenes are: Ennis imaging the loss of all family, Aguirre imaging a blood family, Jack imaging a gay family, and LaRandall imaging a marriage family. Ennis and LaRandall, the two outside scenes, mirror each other in the ways I described above and they mirror each other in that in one, all family is lost, and in the other a family is formed. The two inside scenes, Aguirre and Post-Divorce, mirror each other in that one rejects a family and the other tries to create a family. Each couplet has a blood family lost (rejected) mirrored over to a marriage/gay family formed (wanted). The scenes in the outside couplet offer Jack a gay relationship (the mountain scenes with Ennis all lead to it, LaRandall’s lead to it) while the scenes of the inside couplet firmly tie Jack to his blood and marriage families.

And all aspects of family come together at the River Reunion scene: Jack brings up the possibility of a gay family formation and Ennis rejects it with references directly to his blood family (father and brother) and his new marriage family. Ennis maintains the connection to each while Jack is ready to reject his connections in order to start the new gay family. But, since Ennis rejects this, all family is lost.

Note also that the Reunion is made up of five scenes: The Stairway scene (including the shot in the apartment as it happens immediately together in time), the Motel scene, the Texans Don’t Drink Coffee scene, the Drive and Jump scene and the River scene. And the midpoint of these five scenes is when Ennis is reflected in the mirror with the toothbrush in his mouth – to clear away all that chewing he does.


A few final thoughts…

I should note that I have found that the transition from the swing set stars to the dealership sign stars marks the length-of-film center point and that all events flow outward, mirroring back and forth, from these scenes to either end of the film. However, this also works for the Ennis mirror shot. It all depends on which elements one chooses to include in the overall mirror structure of the film. I find more elements when looking at the stars as the center point; however, the reflection of Ennis in the mirror is much, much more thematically poignant.

In these mirroring scenes, each invokes the truck/death imagery in some way. In the outside couplet, Ennis describes a car accident with the death of his family. LaRandall describes a car breakdown with no death. The inside scenes: Aguirre mentions a possible death, a white truck foreshadows a death that will happen. In the short story, only a few words separate the “crawling lights of vehicles on the plain below” from Uncle Harold’s potential death. Each couplet includes a death and a no-death.

In these mirroring scenes, each couplet references “help.” In the inside couplet, Jack was not able to help his uncle in a death-involved situation; in the outside couplet, Jack was able to help LaRandall in a death-not-involved situation (the truck breaking down). In the inside couplet, Jack wanted to find Ennis and had to ask for help (he asked people); in the outside couplet, Jack wanted to “find Ennis” (that is, get to know him) and he needed no outside help, he drew out the information by himself. And/or Ennis had to rely on the help of his siblings when his parents died and Jack had to rely on the help of strangers to find Ennis. And/or Jack had to rely on help to find Ennis post-divorce, to get the relationship that he wanted, and Jack had to rely on help (from Ennis, shooting the elk), to get what he wanted, different food, a metaphor for wanting that relationship life with Ennis.


Good thread topic!     



Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by latjoreme   16 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 16:40:43)
      
Decent post, TFMC, but kind of skimpy, don't you think? I bet if you'd just give this subject some thought you might come up with ideas that are a little more thorough and comprehensive. 

Kidding, of course. Your post was brilliant. I'm glad I was able to spark your inspiration with my post about the binoculars and crow and Uncle Harold.

 OK, kidding again.

You mentioned the movie ties LaShawn and Randall into LaRandall when Jack mixes them up about his thing with the foreman's wife. As you've probably observed but didn't mention, Jack also "mixes them up" when he asks "them" to dance.

That's all I have to add for now!  I'll think some more about the rest of this.






Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by littlewing1957   15 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 17:54:38)
      
Extraordinary, TFMC. I'm definitely saving this one! First I need to print it out and have a glass of diet coke while I study it. Thanks for posting!

Everybody should be working on an afghan - Juliet Mills

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by TheFullMontyClift   15 hours ago (Thu Sep 20 2007 18:31:16)
   

Anything for you, my little wing.   

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by littlewing1957   55 minutes ago (Fri Sep 21 2007 08:39:03)
      
Aww, Thanks!   

Everybody should be working on an afghan - Juliet Mills

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by BehindMyHazelEyes   9 hours ago (Fri Sep 21 2007 00:04:58)


Now I have a headache.

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40   5 hours ago (Fri Sep 21 2007 03:49:32)

      
I always considered Lashawn to be more than just a minor part. Something in everything she bubbled sounded more important than it should, and I could never quite put my finger on it. Frankly, I was distracted by the content and pace of what she is saying. The part that makes it an essential piece of a greater theme is "Like it or not, here I am!” -- tossed off ever so casually.

I hadn't considered Ennis's "That's how come me end up here" as an inversion of "so here I am", but of course it is. It is a brilliant reversal because it is Ennis saying it, and it is the first time that particular "rhyme" in the story is spoken.

Nice analysis!

Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...   
  by TheFullMontyClift   1 hour ago (Fri Sep 21 2007 07:59:04)
   
Hi GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40 --

I hadn’t considered Ennis’s “That’s how come me end up here” as an inversion of “so here I am”, but of course it is. It is a brilliant reversal because it is Ennis saying it, and it is the first time that particular “rhyme” in the story is spoken.


Exactly. And, for the other three characters there is more of a sense that each had an active part in coming to where each ended up (e.g., Aguirre got the word from the Twists, but he made the choice to get on his horse and deliver it to Jack). However, with Ennis there is a sense that he just ended up on Brokeback because... well... because the wind just sort of blew him there.   


Nice analysis!


Thank you. However, every time I do this kind of analysis I feel as though it has been woefully inadequate. Because of the multi-layered and intricately woven texture of this film, there is so much more to say at every twist and turn. For example, when I mentioned the baling above, I could have well gone on to explain how a number of examples of wire weave together and then how they are related to “metal” and then to the forces of nature (e.g., baling wire used on a farm... wire fence around a cemetery... wire hanger (shirts and torque)... Jack’s steel plugs... metal on bone... metal smell of coming snow... Jack’s death associated with metal on bone, foreshadowed by snow, hung up on a metal hanger, Jack finally enclosed in the metal wire fence of the cemetery (the family plot)... and then circling back around to he metal hull of the Thresher imploding on the men like an explosion of wind, their graves not where they wanted or expected them to be...). It just is so incredibly complex that any single analysis for any single element (“Here I am”) inculcates so very much more all at once.


Never enough time...

Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 05:41:16 pm »
What a fascinating analysis! Thank you, Bruce!
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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 08:04:00 am »
Your welcome!  The original thread is still on the other board, but it is now mutilated by deletions.

(BTW, I'm G/xr40...)
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 01:24:36 pm »
WOW, man.  Good to see there's still great, intense discussion going on there at IMDB!   8)

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 03:12:33 pm »
Quote
And the midpoint of these five scenes is when Ennis is reflected in the mirror with the toothbrush in his mouth – to clear away all that chewing he does.

Jesus H.!  While I admire brilliance and ability to tie all this together and present it so clearly, I am kind of glad to be a mere mortal with only the skill to appreciate it, but not do it.

That FullMOntyClift sure done did give us the Full Monty.  Holy Enchilada!  I want to know more about this:

Quote
I should note that I have found that the transition from the swing set stars to the dealership sign stars marks the length-of-film center point and that all events flow outward, mirroring back and forth, from these scenes to either end of the film. However, this also works for the Ennis mirror shot. It all depends on which elements one chooses to include in the overall mirror structure of the film. I find more elements when looking at the stars as the center point; however, the reflection of Ennis in the mirror is much, much more thematically poignant.

Is there (there must be) a linear simplified list of mirrors/bookends?  Is there more than one?  One with the stars as center, and one with the toothbrush as center?

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 09:55:07 am »
Jesus H.!  While I admire brilliance and ability to tie all this together and present it so clearly, I am kind of glad to be a mere mortal with only the skill to appreciate it, but not do it.

That FullMOntyClift sure done did give us the Full Monty.  Holy Enchilada!  I want to know more about this:

Is there (there must be) a linear simplified list of mirrors/bookends?  Is there more than one?  One with the stars as center, and one with the toothbrush as center?


(TheFullMontyClft has also been known as Clancypants, Clancypantsnasty, Basicgrate, and ruthlesslyunsentimental.)

I don't know if anyone has ever done a linear list of the bookends in the movie.  Several have been pointed out, but I can't remember seeing a list in sequential order...
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 11:56:15 am »
Is there (there must be) a linear simplified list of mirrors/bookends?  Is there more than one?  One with the stars as center, and one with the toothbrush as center?

Clancy first mentioned that his analysis of BBM as an inkblot a long, long time ago. At that time, he felt that the stars were the center. He contended that the film can be matched up almost perfectly that way, scene for scene (the trailer at the beginning, the trailer at the end, etc.)

More recently, Casey Cornelius started a thread here on the same subject. His feeling was that the mirrored toothbrush scene was the center. Here is his thread: http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,9793.msg188970.html#msg188970

My feeling is that either stars or mirror is valid (though the mirror is a bit more poetic as a center) because I don't think the inkblot ever forms a perfectly matched set of reverse-matched scenes, like A-B-C-D-E-F/F-E-D-C-B-A. I think it's more like A-B-C-D-E-F/F-D-C-E-A-B or something like that. In other words, there are matching scenes at both ends, but they aren't always in perfectly precise reverse order. (And there are scenes here and there that, as far as I can tell, don't have a bookend. ... Or do they, and I just haven't spotted it?)

Anyway, for example, the very first scene is the truck crossing the screen from right to left at dawn, Ennis inside with a paper bag holding two shirts. At the end, a truck crosses the screen from left to right at sunset, Ennis inside with a paper bag holding two shirts -- but that's not the very last scene.

Though I suppose you could make a case for the parallels between
truck drives across landscape/Ennis stands outside trailer/Jack drives up/Ennis and Jack go into trailer for metaphoric wedding
and
truck drives across landscape/Ennis stands outside trailer/Alma Jr. drives up/Ennis and Alma go into trailer to discuss actual wedding.

We've talked about bookends a lot, but in a scattered informal way. I don't know of a thread where we've attempted to go through the whole film scene by scene and create a linear list of them, in order. That would be fun!



Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 03:44:08 pm »
We've talked about bookends a lot, but in a scattered informal way. I don't know of a thread where we've attempted to go through the whole film scene by scene and create a linear list of them, in order. That would be fun!

That's something to plan on for next year's Roundup  :D!
Similar to your joint watching and analyzing of the movie at the BBQ this year (which I still am soooo sorry that I have missed it!). Taking a loooong sheet of paper for the timeline, marking the middle and then write down every bookend/mirror scene we can find.
How does that sound, huh? It's so easy girls, you just have to get your scrawny asses up there to Denver and WY.


From my guts I'd say I tend more towards the mirror/toothbrush as center of the inkblot than towards the stars. One criterion is that this is the actual center of the movie, time-wise. Another is the picture of Ennis (our central figure) in the mirror. It just seems more logical that everything is mirrored around this mirror-frame, than around the stars.
But it could also be that I'm a bit biased here because I've read and thought more about the mirror than about the theory with the stars.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 05:46:50 pm »
Well, it certainly seems more fitting that if the first half of the film is a mirror image of the second half, then the dividing scene would be one of a mirror (not to mention the reunion, which sets the plot on a new course). Whereas the stars on the swingset and the dealership sign don't seem particularly (or at least not as) significant.


Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: Thoughts on 'Here I am'...
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2007, 05:56:58 pm »
Numerically, does one divide the film in half including (or excluding) the final credits?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 08:17:01 pm by TOoP/Bruce »
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