Author Topic: I had a discussion today!  (Read 7374 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2006, 09:00:27 am »
That's really beautiful, Nipith.  I agree.  And I agree with all everyone else here has said, too.

You're so right about people who immediately discount it by saying "I didn't understand what Ennis was saying."  The first friend I lent it to, who is now a bonafide Brokie, God bless her, said this when I asked her if she had trouble understanding him:  "In a few places.  But it didn't matter, because his face said it all."  And she is someone who appreciates art and who likes movies that "make you think," as she says.

I'm so with you on all this.  I have had this same discussion with another co-worker (who still hasn't seen it, and probably never will) all the time - about what movies are supposed to do.  My argument is that they're supposed to make you think - they're supposed to move you so deeply that they leave a mark on you - that that's what real art does.  Her take is that they should just be for pure entertainment that takes you out of your own miserable life for a little while.  Needless to say, I won't be lending her one of my DVDs.

But I also agree that one has to be emotionally ready to receive this movie - that there has to be a place in your heart that's already waiting for it - to fully appreciate it.  And like you, Angie, I've seen so many movies and analyzed them for so long that it takes a lot for a new movie to really impress me.  I can't just say, "Yeah, that was a good movie" and go on about my merry way.  If it really was good, I like to pick it apart and analyze how it was made in minute detail.  I think that's part of it, too.  I think the more movies one sees, and the more different kinds of movies they are, the more one can discern between what's really good and what's just crap.  I don't mean to sound like a film snob, but I guess I am.  I think a lot of the people who don't get it just don't see that many movies, and the ones they do see tend to be the big "event" movies that are everything all the time without a moment to let you catch your breath and think about anything.  I remember the lovely review written at the old IMDb board by a retiree titled "The Older the Eyes, the Better the Film."  He and his retiree friends loved it, partly because they had a wealth of life experience from which to draw (and a world of compassion, I'm sure) and partly because they had all seen so many movies that they knew a masterpiece when they saw one.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2006, 10:17:28 am by ednbarby »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2006, 09:34:57 am »
We didn't know how to feel, beyond being devastated, when the film ended, but as we process it further after leaving the theater, the film hit us even harder because we continue to work through those conflicting emotions and details. When it all fits, that when it hits us hardest.

I think Nipith comes closest to explaining my response, if only because most of the other explanations don't particularly apply to me. I know that I 1) don't consider myself more compassionate than average, 2) didn't understand most of the film's subtleties the first time I saw it, 3) couldn't understand half of what Ennis was saying at first and even missed some of Jack's lines (bad sound system) 4) usually prefer movies whose appeal is intellectual (Memento) rather than emotional, 5) am more of a stander than a fixer, 6) do have problems in my life that relate to Brokeback situations, but probably also to lots of other movies.

Yet I emerged from the theater the first time not just devastated -- though definitely that -- but also elated and thrilled. I knew at once I had to go back within a week and see it again. I started thinking about it constantly. I had no idea how many more times I'd wind up seeing it or that I'd still be obsessed with it four months later, but if you'd told me, I might not have been surprised.

So to me the phenomenon is very mysterious. It's almost like something metaphysical, though I don't believe in that stuff AT ALL. It reminds me of an old late-'70s Stephen King book, "The Stand" (here would be the place to assert that I never read Stephen King and though, in fact, I don't anymore, I'm not going to bash him because he seems like such a nice guy and because he wrote a nice post-Oscar essay in defense of Brokeback). In that book everybody in the United States dies in a terrible epidemic except a select group of immune people from around the country, who all find themselves mysteriously drawn to Las Vegas for a cataclysmic showdown between good and evil.

I'm hoping we will not be called to Las Vegas anytime soon. But sometimes this seems a little like that to me -- that we're this select group of people from around the world who have been drawn together by the myterious forces of this movie.

Now, having rambled on, I have to add one more thing. When I think about the movie, I am still elated and thrilled. I think it's beautiful and fascinating and moving and I absolutely love it. But I'll have to say that I'm not entirely pleased with the depth of my obsession. I have a close friend with OCD -- he suffers from disturbing intrusive uncontrollable thoughts -- and although this is different because my thoughts about Brokeback aren't at all disturbing or scary, they ARE sort of overwhelming and interfere with my productivity in other areas of life.

Offline Anya_Angie

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2006, 01:31:41 pm »
Hey haven't been here for a while LOL I've been so busy with a lot of things, my father is sick and in the hospital and I'm trying to come to terms with that, and also I have a few writing projects to deal with as well. But I am here! So I'd love to continue this discussion.

I think all of you have made excellent points!

I agree that being ready for this story's themes helps, because I knew the story before I walked in, in full detail because I wanted to research it for some fiction I was working on. I was so intrigued by the idea of the story being told so beautifully that people have identified with it and some even say they lived the entire tale. Meanwhile, my mother, when she found out I wanted to see it, stared at me and asked, "Gay cowboys?" So I think since she wasn't emotionally ready, she was just interested in what everyone was talking about, so therefore she wasn't as affected by it as most people.

Look for some more posts of mine in the OT forum!
You can tell the sun in his jealous sky when we walked in fields of gold...

Offline wolf

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2006, 07:44:15 pm »
Great thread!

I'll weigh in by saying I'm not especially compassionate, not necessarily a fixer (I generally steer clear of broken things), don't usually like 'human condition' films, and have no distinctly Brokeback experiences from which to forge a connection. 

I do think tho, that I had a place inside somewhere waiting for this story.  It seemed to FIT, instantly.  Like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle.  had an almost "why didn't I think of that" moment after seeing it for the first time, as odd as that sounds.

Beyond that, I'm with latjoreme re: the film's mysteries.  It is so much greater than the sum of it's parts that it's transcended the prosaic. 

As for why others don't connect, I have one fairly lame theory.  friends who've enjoyed, appreciated, but not been moved tend to be less 'film smart' despite the fact most of them have seen many films, are 40+ and intelligent, educated, worldly, liberal, etc.  those that have connected - and here I'm indeed lucky, as I have three dear friends who are confirmed Brokies - are same 'demographic', but are more interested in film and able to extract more generally from the movie of the moment.  Two of my unbelieving friends have commented to the effect that they 'shouldn't have to work so hard' when seeing a film.  This in response to my suggestion that all the subtleties missed on first viewing might be picked up on the second.  Very telling, non? 

Personally, few films have moved me to haiku.  Even then it's been a recognisable and distinct reaction that only kicks in post 'great film'.  The response I had to Brokeback was altogether a different animal.  That 'great film' thing was there, to be sure, but there was an alarmingly vast array of other 'stuff' subsuming it.   It's the 'stuff' reaction that is most mysterious for me, and the absence of a 'stuff' reaction in others is just as mysterious, despite the abovementioned lame arse theory.

W

Offline Anya_Angie

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2006, 02:24:38 pm »
I can see where you're coming from!

I for example loved the film The Notebook, for example, but it seemed like I wasn't affected as strongly as this film, or Hero, or a few other films. It didn't leave as lasting an impression as the others. I didn't analyze character development, whereas with Brokeback, I came out asking all kinds of questions about the character of Ennis.

I also notice minute details of storytelling that most people take for granted, such as irony, foreshadowing, all types of conflict.
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Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2006, 12:06:20 am »
Quote
I also notice minute details of storytelling that most people take for granted, such as irony, foreshadowing, all types of conflict.

You see I greatly admire details such as those but I never usually understand them. The only reason I have such an excellent understanding of Brokeback, I'm ashamed to say, is because others have, on these boards, mentioned the symbols they discovered.

Brokeback is very -- beautifully -- subtle as well. The only guaranteed way I'll process minute details like foreshadowing and such is if they are at least fairly obvious.

I think as to why people either love or dislike Brokeback, I think it has a lot to do with what kinds of films you watch. Granted, there are likely exceptions, but if you enjoy humane, intelligent character-driven stories, art-house films, and well-done symbolism (and aren't a homophobe) then you have a good chance of appreciating Brokeback Mountain. If you enjoy fast-paced teeny-bopper thrillers like the When a Stranger Calls remake or low-level, stupid comedies like the Scary Movie films, then you'll probably dislike Brokeback.

I think what starboard said, however, is very interesting and merited. I am gonna think it over but as of right now, I am liking what he wrote.

Of all the people I know in person { ;)} who've seen Brokeback Mountain, seven of them disliked it and two of them really liked it. (Although they may not be Brokies like myself I'm sure as hell thankful for them!) Of the seven, I know two of them are homophobes (one's in denial, which pisses me off), another has really crappy taste (every MTV reality show ever created to movies like Into the Blue and Just Like Heaven), two others are relatively smart teenagers my age but consume and appreciate a lot of crap like the aforementioned When a Stranger Calls remake and Scary Movie 4, and the last two are my parents who may or may not be homophobic (I am not sure yet and I don't want to randomly bring the topic up; I want them to be honest as well).

I don't know if that helps any or if it just a waste of virtual ink. But I felt like letting all out; in a way, I was ranting...

It sucks though because I am close with, generally, all nine of these people. It sucks further how they should be aware that I'm very, very passionate about this movie and they don't take my admiration of it seriously at all. Should a Brokeback conversation come up, I'd just be told I read too deeply into the movie or else my opinions would be considered to have no merit.  ???
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Offline wolf

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2006, 09:26:48 pm »
bbm_stitchbuffyfan,

I'm assuming you're young (under 20?), and if so, I'm deeply impressed.  With the greatest respect to the teens of today  ::), not many would have the depth of character to appreciate BBM.

Regarding homophobia impacting on one's appreciation, I'm not sure I can see that.  One of the most confirmed Brokeaholics I know was robustly homophobic until her first viewing.  Not a word of a lie.  I'll even confess a modicum of 'discomfort' on my own part, despite spending my late teens/early 20's in friendship with some lovely gay boys.  Point is, my experience indicates homophobia doesn't seem to be the operative obstacle.  On the flip side, I know some gay people who were not just unmoved, but whom actually loathed it  :o.

You make a good point regarding 'in your face' film tastes, tho even that doesn't seem to be a clear decider.  Some of the people I know who were unmoved (enjoyed it, but no further reaction) are fully fledged film snobs who wouldn't dream of seeing mainstream hollywood crap.

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser ...

W

Offline silkncense

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Re: I had a discussion today!
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2006, 11:08:00 am »
Quote
Mysteriouser and mysteriouser ...

Indeed.  I have been totally wrong several times in my assessment of who would & who would not see this movie rather than just watch it.
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