Author Topic: tent scene, in the short story.  (Read 12322 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2006, 11:56:04 am »
yep, i do think the small details sometimes reveal something about the bigger picture. in this case, I'm just taking note of the fact that Ennis, in the short story, was not as conflicted about being intimate with Jack. He didn't pull away, but rather ran full throttle with it.

Definitely. So how do you feel about that, Nipith? Personally, I like the movie's version better. Ennis' inner struggle, and ultimate conquering of his fears, makes the situation more interesting for me. But perhaps others have different opinions ...

Offline starboardlight

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2006, 02:54:10 pm »
Definitely. So how do you feel about that, Nipith? Personally, I like the movie's version better. Ennis' inner struggle, and ultimate conquering of his fears, makes the situation more interesting for me. But perhaps others have different opinions ...

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I certainly agree that both Ennis and Jack are more fleshed out in the film. I didn't get a very good sense of what Jack is like in the story, where as in the film, I can almost wrap my arms around him.

With Ennis, I kinda want to take what I get from the story into the movie. I want to see him as clearly understanding that he's queer but just doesn't know how to fit into the world, not being able to envision a life as a queer man, being afraid of other people finding out. I want to see his fear as that of the consequences as oppose to being afraid to be who he is. I haven't made up my mind if that is the case or not in the film.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2006, 03:14:19 pm »
With Ennis, I kinda want to take what I get from the story into the movie. I want to see him as clearly understanding that he's queer but just doesn't know how to fit into the world, not being able to envision a life as a queer man, being afraid of other people finding out. I want to see his fear as that of the consequences as oppose to being afraid to be who he is. I haven't made up my mind if that is the case or not in the film.

No, in my opinion the Ennis you describe is Story Ennis. I think Move Ennis IS afraid to be who he is. But actually that's what I like about him. To me, that sets his love of Jack against greater odds and greater stakes -- thereby intensifying the importance of their relationship. And it makes his emotional journey longer, thus more moving.

Offline starboardlight

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2006, 04:07:09 pm »
No, in my opinion the Ennis you describe is Story Ennis. I think Move Ennis IS afraid to be who he is. But actually that's what I like about him. To me, that sets his love of Jack against greater odds and greater stakes -- thereby intensifying the importance of their relationship. And it makes his emotional journey longer, thus more moving.


i see where you're coming from. having been that "Ennis" at one point, I know how unbearably painful to hate yourself so much. I guess I want Ennis to have move forward from there a little, just to lighten his burden a bit. It breaks my heart too much to think of him that way.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2006, 04:17:20 pm »
Well, by the end of the movie he has, right? Too late, unfortunately. But yes, that's what I mean, I find the movie more heartbreaking than the story for that very reason.

Offline Rayn

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2006, 10:37:35 am »
And so on. It doesn't always mean something, but many times it does, so it seems worth pinning down those details.


Like I said, "...if you like that sort of thing... have at it!"

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Offline starboardlight

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2006, 12:37:13 pm »
But, "Ennis' inner struggle, and ultimate conquering of his fears," are actually in the original short story as published in "Close Range."

He never quite conquers his fears in the last pages of the story; but, in the opening italicized paragraphs, it seems that he has become more accepting of his former relationship with Jack as evidenced in his last day on the Stoutamire ranch before he goes to stay with his married daughter.

The way that Annie Proulx wrote those two paragraphs at the start of the Dead Line, Ltd., copyright 1997, version of the story, it makes me think that if Ennis were to meet another man toward whom he felt sexually attracted, he might begin a relationship with him if he also liked him very much, too . . . AND feel in love with him like he was with Jack Twist. It took about or more than 20 years for Ennis to decide that he had been in love with Jack since the summer of 1963.

but what exactly is that fear? fear of being himself? or fear of the world not accepting him? I think that's what my original post was getting at. In that description, he didn't seem too uncomfortable to get intimate with Jack. For me it's evidence that he isn't struggling so much with being queer. Even AP's "You know I ain't queer" description was rather dismissive, as if she means to suggest that neither of them believed it. To me his fear comes from not being able to see a place in the world for himself.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2006, 12:47:28 pm »
Even AP's "You know I ain't queer" description was rather dismissive, as if she means to suggest that neither of them believed it.

That's funny. I just finished writing this, in so many words, on the "job switch" thread.

Offline starboardlight

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2006, 12:53:45 pm »
That's funny. I just finished writing this, in so many words, on the "job switch" thread.


Great minds, ..., as they say. he he.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline opinionista

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Re: tent scene, in the short story.
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2006, 04:37:03 pm »
Quote
It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intimacy considerably.

The screenplay writers and/or the movie makers ignored what is in the quoted sentence which was even in the New Yorker Magazine version of the short story.

I say that when Jack felt the rise in Ennis's Levi's, the reason that took Ennis's left hand and put it on his (Jack's) erect cock was to show Ennis that he was just a horny, too.

I hadn't think of it.  But it makes sense. Jack couldn't just grab Ennis hand out of the blue. Something made him do it.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.