TOTW 15/07: Short story or movie, which one do you prefer?

[Aussie Chris]

But since I sense that the accent of the movie is maybe too much on wives, I think that is one source where gay men might dislike or hate that film (and see it as anti-gay, in a way ) ??

I think you should answer the questions that you want to Artiste.  Maybe start with this one though: what do you mean by the movie is maybe too much on wives?  I don't think the film spent too much time with the wives.  But even if it did lets not forget that the wives were just as much victims as Jack & Ennis.  I don't understand why you seem to have such a problem with them.  Do you?

And when you finish with this one, here's the next question: why do you think people who hate the film see it as anti-gay (in a way)?

[Artiste]

Thanks Aussie Chris!!

It is obious that the movie does accent in many ways the difficulties of being female as well as wives!!

I am very puzzled as to why that is so numerous!! In a way, it does make the film anti-gay, to some persons!! Instead of remaining with the gay theme... if that what is the main aim. But we must not forget that it is  Annie who wrote the story and that she is a woman and a lady; she is obvious (to me) confused about female issues and tries to solve some by her book maybe, but the movie does much more of that?? The movie was created with a script not only done by a male but also by a female!! Gays or bi, do suffer in the movie and in the book; but also females do too, much more by the movie?? I am happy that those issues of freedom for ladies are in the movie too; however, why so much??

These are not only women issues but gay issues too?? Does Annie bring about too the subject of lesbians, and does the movie?? She could have done so... if she had wanted; so could have the movie; both touches but slightly it only, to my view.

The deviant idea that gays and bi men are so portrayed by the movie, is adamant!! Very clear!! Why, because, it is made by straights?? Why??

Many questions and issues remain un-explained to date!!

The BM movie tips towards feminism (luckily  I think) and I wonder why??

Hugs!!

[LauraGigs]

Artiste, answer this question:  have you read the short story?

[Aussie Chris]

I am very puzzled as to why that is so numerous!! In a way, it does make the film anti-gay, to some persons!! Instead of remaining with the gay theme... if that what is the main aim. But we must not forget that it is  Annie who wrote the story and that she is a woman and a lady; she is obvious (to me) confused about female issues and tries to solve some by her book maybe, but the movie does much more of that?? The movie was created with a script not only done by a male but also by a female!! Gays or bi, do suffer in the movie and in the book; but also females do too, much more by the movie?? I am happy that those issues of freedom for ladies are in the movie too; however, why so much??

Artiste, this is very hard to follow, but I don't think you answered my question either: Are you saying you think the film spends too much time on the wives?  If so why?  What's wrong with the amount of time spent on the wives?

And to suggest that AP has "female issues" is argumentative and unfounded, in my opinion.  Why do you say such things?

[Artiste]

Thanks LauraGigs, and thanks Aussi Chris!!

LauraGigs, I will answer you firstly since your comment appears first, and I think that I can reply to you.
I read some or all of Annie's book, but which one I do not remember. I certainly want to do so again, not only because of gay, bi or straight issues, she seems to do; I will be reading this time relight if there are female issues too (if I may use that term). Do you think that she does about female issues??
.................................

Aussi Chris: Yes, I do think that the film spends too much time on wives, to use your word; if that is what the script authors wanted, then maybe they do not spend enough time!!

As to answer why, if the film was meant to be for pro-gay issues, then it does not spend enough time, concerning that, not at all to my view, and understanding so far (but that can change as I am trying to evaluate)with myself and with others the movie!!
............

I must go as I am late.

Please comment, answer, or pose questions you two and you all, details or not, as you wish, as am awaiting your news,

hugs!! Hugs!!

[brokebackjack]

You have to read the book. It is only about 40 pages.

[brokebackjack]

Oh--forgit to answer.

Artiste, the people who refused to watch simply do NOT want to change.  At all. They arer happy complaining--or so it seems to me, and I have known some of them many years. If true change DID occur, the speed of that change would not matter. The mere fact of change would matter and they do not want to do it.

They would rather bitch about how miserable they are.

Change is not easy...I have had an enormous amount of chaqnge, yet sometimes I STILL bitch about how miserable it is. The thing is, it gets dealt with....while the others don't deal with anything. I am less and less friendly with them.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokebackjack, thanks AussieChris, thanks LauraGigs, and thanks to all others.

So I may answer later on the question: Short story or movie, I prefer, may I ask to all of you: if the film was meant to be for pro-gay issues??

Brokenbackjack, you saying that some persons never want to change their lives? Never? Even if they read Annie's book or the BM movie? One brother of mine cut out quickly in front of me, the Ennis and Jack sex scene, while he and I watched the BM movie, but I seem to recall that he left the kissing one in - he is straight and did not know what I had asked of him when I was with him suggesting he rent the BM movie!! Will he change? Did he after seeing that movie... not at first since he bitched for days while I visited him and his family, but I think he did somewhat later... a bit or a start changed?? !! You know that I am a gay man! That brother knows that too of me... but always say sternly otherwise quoting the bible or so for mariage to be only sacred for a woman and man union!! He surprised me one day... you want to know?

Aussie Chris, you do not see any female issues in the BM movie?

LauraGigs, I yearn to read again Annie's story. Must refind it. Glad you mention that!

Hugs, hugs, hugs!!!  Happy Gay Holidays and give unwanted or unneed gifts a new home if the giver wants to as you do suggest...since too many persons living on the streets that need our help in wondrous ways!! Good idea??

[brokebackjack]

ARTISTE!!!!!

Joyeaux Noel et bonne annee!!!!!


I think some people simply do not WANT to change. I have one person very much in mind when saying that, a gay man whose life is as predictable as a clock. He does not like where he is. He is actually appalled and scared to death at the situation of his life. Yet refuses to acknowledge that change is even needed on any level. It is needed and more then needed. He knows this. Yet he wants no part of change and refuses to so much as mention the possibility of change. The very idea scares him to death.

He cannot deal with change, any change. He MUST, for example, find a new occupation. He refuses to do so. He refuses to even consider it. There is no possibility of his continuing with the same occupation, he will not be hired by any company.

Yet he openly tells us he has no need to change.

He will continue this until he is on the verge of ruin, when it will be too late. We--everyone he knows--has spoken with him about this. He refuses to admit he must change, and the result will be disaster. Astonishingly, EVERY FRIEND HE HAS tells him in detail why and how, yet he will not change because he does not wish to change.

He has no relationship and has never really had one. He gains solace from anonymous sex.  He refuses to watch Brokeback Mountain because he knows several people hose lives have changed dramatically BECAUSE of Brokeback.

He mocks the film, without ever having VIEWED THE FILM.

He openly says if we allowed a film to change us we were crazy.

He became angry when we invited him to a small party, and he arrived, to find we were going to view Brokeback: he said he had no need to watch any film which would tell him to change, and left.

Yes, there are some people who will watch their lives collapse rather then change, and he is one of them.

Much love to you, and all happiness in the coming year!  I hope to get to Montreal  sometime this year and if I/we DO, I must say that there is nothing I would like more then to sit down and hear Artiste's Questions IN PERSON!!!!!

[brokeplex]

Maybe your friend is in deep denial about the truth of his life. Sometimes there is little that we can do to help others in denial, whatever facts you present, they tend to discount them and deny them. My hope for your friend is that he will one day begin to see the truth and change his life and become a happier person. But, he has to take that step himself.