Anybody out there seen Atonement? (SPOILERS)

[mvansand76]

****SPOILERS****

I would like to see it at least one more time, though, to work out in my own mind what actually happened and what were Briony's revisions.  After viewing number one, I would like to watch it with the idea that everything from Briony's POV is suspect to her own (mis)interpretation.

I was left with the impression that the letters to Robbie during the war were real, but that he did not make it out of Dunkirk alive.  I thought that it was Briony's visit to her sister and her 'memory' of their reunion and Robbie being alive that was solely in her imagination - what she wanted to do but was too cowardly, embellished with her fantasy that her betrayal could somehow be undone by Robbie coming home from the war alive.

Did she find atonement by rewriting the story they should have had late in her life?  That was our question leaving the theatre and I believe our consensus was 'Not likely.'

I agree! I have to see it again to really make up my mind about how it really went. I do think that the book is a little more clear on the matter, as I've heard from my friend who read the book. I started reading the book, but haven't gotten to the part with the twist yet...

[MaineWriter]

One thing I decided, as I lay in bed thinking about this...I do think Briony studied nursing. The French soldier that died while she was caring for him gave her the description of how Robbie died. What I mean...I read one comment that said, "Here we had two instances of people who didn't seem all that sick, they were talking one minute, then started talking nonsense and suddenly, boom! They were dead." Actually, Briony experienced it with one person and used that to write Robbie's death in Dunkirk.

I think all of what we saw of Robbie's experience in France was from her imagination. It was based on what actually happened, of course, and she talked to the other soldier (Nettle) and learned about it from him, but what she wrote (and we saw) was what she envisioned. And from that perspective, it really makes me wonder about the scene of the dead schoolgirls. Remember Robbie was alone when he saw that? The other two men never saw them. Maybe Robbie never saw them, either. Maybe it was Briony imagining that Robbie wanted her dead for what she had done, and that is how she expressed it.

Thoughts?

L

PS, I changed the subject line to say SPOILERS so we can just assume anyone coming to this thread has seen the movie.

[opinionista]

Hi everyone,

I went and saw Atonement today. I have the book (I received it for Christmas) but haven't read it yet, so I can't compare them. But my impression...

SPOILER











I think the whole middle of the movie....from the time it says "Four years later, northern France" was all Briony's imagination. And that really makes me wonder how much, if any of it, was true. For example, Chrissi, you note that Robbie had a stack of letters. But did he? Did Cecelia and Robbie really reconnect in London? I do think Cecelia and Robbie both died, but everything else...how much is true?

Answering another question: Briony had a crush on Robbie and had had, for years. Seeing her sister with him at the fountain, with her sister dripping wet, she realized they were in love--and she didn't want them to be in love. She wanted Robbie to love her (even though that was entirely unrealistic).

I even wonder if Briony ever studied nursing.

Leslie

I saw Atonement on Friday. These are my impressions. I think Briony did study nursing. She probably did it out of guilt, to try to reconnect with her sister. I also think she did send that letter to Cee but the scene where Cee and Robbie meet at the restaurant and discuss Briony's letter didn't happen. In that scene Cee tells Robbie about Briony studying nursing and feeling bad about what happened. It seemed to me Cee was sort of forgiving her. She didn't seem angry or anything.  I think that scene in particular was Briony's imagination. I think Cee and Robbie never meet again after his arrest, and both die young, hence Briony's decision to give them the happiness they didn't have even if it was fiction. I thought this movie was so sad. I felt bad for Briony because she lived her life with guilt. I thought Lola was worse than her, though.

[Fran]

And from that perspective, it really makes me wonder about the scene of the dead schoolgirls. Remember Robbie was alone when he saw that? The other two men never saw them. Maybe Robbie never saw them, either. Maybe it was Briony imagining that Robbie wanted her dead for what she had done, and that is how she expressed it.

Thoughts?

L

Wow, Leslie!  Yes, that would explain it perfectly.

And thanks for pointing out Briony's crush on Robbie.  I had forgotten about the scene where she jumped in the water and pretended to drown so that he would have to rescue her and then how annoyed he was with her.  Maybe she couldn't bear the thought of "losing" him to her gorgeous sister, thinking if I can't have him, she certainly won't.  Plus, one has to consider the fact that Briony is in a pissy mood that day since no one's really interested in her play, and she had been so excited about it. 

I'm wondering if the book follows the movie with regard to how much pages are devoted to Robbie during the war.  Does the book just jump ahead like the movie and skip Robbie's trial and time in jail and Cee's split with her family?  I think I would have liked more film time devoted to those things.

[Mikaela]

I'm wondering if the book follows the movie with regard to how much pages are devoted to Robbie during the war.  Does the book just jump ahead like the movie and skip Robbie's trial and time in jail and Cee's split with her family?  I think I would have liked more film time devoted to those things.

Yes, the book does jump ahead like that. It's in 3 distinct parts, much like the film.  (I read it when it first was published so I do not remember all the novel details anymore).

In fact, the middle part of the novel with the (sometimes surreal, always frightening) struggles of the 3 soldiers making their way amid chaos and war towards Dunquerque is significantly more drawn-out and detailed in the novel. It is written so vividly that to me, personally, that was the best (and most emotionally challenging) part of the novel. After having read it I felt I had been there with them, and what a painful experience that was!

It's a very poignant notion that much of what Robbie felt and experienced during the trek to Dunquerque has been imagined and distilled through the guilt and atonement of the contrite Briony.

[Fran]

Thanks, Mikaela.

[southendmd]

I just saw Atonement today, and am left with lots of impressions.

I personally enjoy novels or films where the narrator/point of view shifts or is ambiguous and this is certainly the case here.

Because I was very emotionally affected, and a friend I saw it with was not, I had to think of the "universal".  For me, it was the "thou shalt not bear false witness"  thing. 

I think the challenge for the audience is:  can you feel sympathy for Briony?  (This is not the same as forgiveness.)

My sympathy for her came when she told the French soldier, who was obviously going to die, that she loved him.  Perhaps her first completely selfless act (and, perhaps, also a lie).  To me, she suddenly became human, with his blood on her face. 

Clearly, as a girl, she was in love with Robbie; I'm sure she was confused by the sexual images she witnessed between him and Cee.  Don't forget, 13 year olds can have intense sexual feelings.  One can see how her jealousy led to her lie, which takes him away from her sister. 

Of course, we have to think about the "atonement" of the title:  she has to live with the guilt and widespread effects of her actions for the next 60+ years. 

As a side note, I found the "mole" on her right cheek a physical representation of her "sin".  Notice how it was continued in all three actresses.

Finally, the act of writing the novel, at least to the author, helps redeem her (boy, I love Vanessa Redgrave).  She has given them a life together, their happiness by the "White Cliffs of Dover". 

[MaineWriter]

Finally, the act of writing the novel, at least to the author, helps redeem her (boy, I love Vanessa Redgrave).  She has given them a life together, their happiness by the "White Cliffs of Dover". 

Well, yes, in her mind, she did. But the question is, is that enough of an atonement?

And, Dr. Paul, I have a question for you.  I am convinced the whole middle section is written as Briony envisioned it. Even though we feel like we are with Robbie in France, that is how Briony pictured it for Robbie in France. I posted this over on IMDb (and some rude person shot me down)....someone was complaining that Robbie's death seemed odd. He was talking and seemed okay one minute, then started babbling nonsense, then boom! he was dead. If you notice, the French soldier did the same thing. I said that the French soldier died of sepsis and was the first person Briony had ever seen die. When she heard that Robbie died of sepsis, she wrote Robbie's death (which we saw) based on her experience of the French soldier. The person who shot me down said, "Don't be stupid, he didn't die of sepsis, he died of a hole in his head." But my contention (and I stand by this) is that since the hole in his head didn't kill him instantly, it wasn't going to kill him slowly--something else would. In this case, infection. Which isn't hard to believe when you look at that filthy bandage! Thoughts on this?

As I have continued to think about this, I have come up with other items which I think point to the notion of it all being Briony's POV. Which doesn't mean it is all fictitious--she did do some research (which she says in the interview). But she was able to bend things just enough to assuage her conscience.

L

[southendmd]

Her living with the guilt, and making reparations via her writing is her atonement.  Is is enough?  That's for the audience to decide. 

I didn't really worry about the medical realism.  Luc could just have easily have died from blood loss as from infection from the hole in his head.  I seem to remember Robbie poked at a hole in his chest--more symbolism?

Certainly we learn that much of the film is from Briony's POV.  Despite her "research", it's a novel, and not a history. 

[Clyde-B]

I saw Atonement and I liked it, but it didn't effect as much as BBM.

****** SPOILERS  ******

I thought Briony was telling the truth at the end.

She had lied in the beginning.   She had lied with her novel telling herself and the world Cecie and Robbie had had a happy life.  She had lied to herself that somehow fiction could make up for their lost love.

I think her atonement was finally telling the truth, facing up to what really happened.  Perhaps realizing there was no way for her to make up for it.

I liked the way the story played with the idea that fiction writers are essentially liars, sometimes using reality as it happened, sometimes making it come out the way we would have preferred.  Trying to use a lie to tell a truth.

The movie made me want to read the book to see how it's handled there.