The Morality Quiz

[Kerry]

Tragic as this scenario truly is, it should be remembered that for some people this is not just a "scenario." There are those who have actually lived through situations such as this and they've had to make equally difficult decisions in the process. The Holocaust comes to mind immediately. But there are lots of other such situations from more recent years. We are so fortunate to live within affluent, pluralist, egalitarian, democratic societies, where it is unlikely we will ever be confronted with a dilemma such as this, other than in the abstract.

My initial response to this scenario was, "Yep, sure, I'd do it. After all, the baby's dead either way." It wasn't a difficult question to answer for me initially, in the abstract. I'm a gay male who has never had much contact with, nor empathy for babies. Easy-peasy, I thought. I just saved all those lives, mine included!

And then something strange happened in the hours after I'd participated in the exercise. To start with, I couldn't get it out of my mind. Then I started to have empathetic feelings for the baby (a first for me). I could feel the warmth of its body in my hands as I smothered it and could feel the child's heart cease beating as I snuffed out its life. I tried to rationalize my decision/actions. I imagined the baby was female, not male. I imagined that the baby was very ugly or even disfigured. My imagination was obviously in hyperdrive and trying to make me feel better about killing a baby who I rationalized would never grow-up to be desirable or worthwhile (my shallow, mercenary reasoning even shocked myself). All this seemed to be emerging from deep within my subconscious, without "me" giving it any conscious consideration (is this making any sense?).

My initial, cavalier decision came back to bite me big time. It was a decision I initially made with ready ease, thinking it was what was best for the group. What came afterwards was guilt, shame, doubt and self-loathing.

This is too hard for me! I'm off to bed!

[delalluvia]

Tragic as this scenario truly is, it should be remembered that for some people this is not just a "scenario." There are those who have actually lived through situations such as this and they've had to make equally difficult decisions in the process. The Holocaust comes to mind immediately. But there are lots of other such situations from more recent years. We are so fortunate to live within affluent, pluralist, egalitarian, democratic societies, where it is unlikely we will ever be confronted with a dilemma such as this, other than in the abstract.

My initial response to this scenario was, "Yep, sure, I'd do it. After all, the baby's dead either way." It wasn't a difficult question to answer for me initially, in the abstract. I'm a gay male who has never had much contact with, nor empathy for babies. Easy-peasy, I thought. I just saved all those lives, mine included!

And then something strange happened in the hours after I'd participated in the exercise. To start with, I couldn't get it out of my mind. Then I started to have empathetic feelings for the baby (a first for me). I could feel the warmth of its body in my hands as I smothered it and could feel the child's heart cease beating as I snuffed out its life. I tried to rationalize my decision/actions. I imagined the baby was female, not male. I imagined that the baby was very ugly or even disfigured. My imagination was obviously in hyperdrive and trying to make me feel better about killing a baby who I rationalized would never grow-up to be desirable or worthwhile (my shallow, mercenary reasoning even shocked myself). All this seemed to be emerging from deep within my subconscious, without "me" giving it any conscious consideration (is this making any sense?).

My initial, cavalier decision came back to bite me big time. It was a decision I initially made with ready ease, thinking it was what was best for the group. What came afterwards was guilt, shame, doubt and self-loathing.

This is too hard for me! I'm off to bed!

It's not an easy decision to make for anyone.  As was said in earlier posts, people who say they can/should/would/must do one thing, may not be able to do it when the time actually came, but who knows how someone might actually react?  People who say they couldn't do it, might be standing there huddled with their own somewhat older children and with the threat to their own children's lives staring them in the face, parental protection might seize hold of them and they suddenly be able to do it.

Those who absolutely could not do it will have survivor's guilt.  Those who actually had to do the deed will have to live with themselves and - very likely - how others will see them.  Those with survivors guilt could easily transfer their self-loathing to the actual killer and take out all their anger and disgust on them - even though that person saved their lives.

WWII was full of such stories, appallingly enough.  Doesn't even have to be Jewish people, doesn't even have to be babies.  I just saw a documentary on a French woman during DDay.  She talks about the very young German soldiers she had had to quarter in her farmhouse.  She'd gotten to know them, was friendly with them, but when the Americans showed up, they hid.  She had a choice, turn them in - and they would be instantly killed - or say nothing, and if they were found be thought of as a collaborator. 

She turned them in.

They were killed.

You could still see the pain of what she clearly thought was betrayal in her face and it's been over 60 years now...

[injest]

ok. so you live. What kind of life would you have? The thought of killing an innocent to allow myself to live is not a choice I would make....rationalizing that you are saving OTHER people is just that a rationalization. In the end if you are truthful with yourself, that is what you are doing...thinking only of yourself.

given the scenario without being given the options, I would never have thought of smothering a baby....but I have found lately that I am in the minority with my freakishly backwater sense of morality

[David In Indy]

For some reason this is making me think about the terrible plane wreck up in the Andes mountains back in the 1970's. I'm sure you all are familiar with this. The survivors of the wreck were forced to eat the dead. Remember that? This is another one of those "could I do it?" scenarios.

I don't think I could. But I suppose one never really knows for certain until they are faced with something like this. It's a chilling thought.

This very same thing happened to the Donner party in the 1800's. I think it happened in Colorado.

[ifyoucantfixit]

         I have read about the story of the infant.  It was an actual thing that happened.  The babies
own mother smothered it.  The baby was crying, and would not hush.  The people in the hiding place
told the mother to try and silence the infant.  She couldnt make it be quiet, so when she heard the soldiers
passing by.  She held the baby to her own breast, very tightly.  and when the crisis had passed, they discovered that she had smothered it to death..It wasnt exactly an accident, but not intentional either. 
A terrible thing to have to face.  However I personally would never do it to save myself.  But I HOPE that I
could have what it took to do so, in order to save 50 people.  Which i think is how many there were, hiding there.  Some of which were children as well.

[Penthesilea]

Didn't y'all see the final episode of M*A*S*H?

I did. Exactly this scenario, and like you, I immediately thought of it reading Kerry's post.


I would not be able to smother a baby consciously.
In reality, I think it would be far more likely that the scenario would go like Janice described (and like it was shown in M*A*S*H). People taking the risk of smothering the baby by silencing it. I think this is a big difference to smothering the baby deliberately.

From David:
For some reason this is making me think about the terrible plane wreck up in the Andes mountains back in the 1970's. I'm sure you all are familiar with this. The survivors of the wreck were forced to eat the dead. Remember that? This is another one of those "could I do it?" scenarios.

I would have far less scruples to eat an already dead person in such a desperate situation than actively killing someone like in the other scenarios. Of all given scenarios, this is the least horrible to me and I'm pretty sure I would eat.

[CellarDweller]

Didn't y'all see the final episode of M*A*S*H?

I was just about to mention that, scott!


and to be honest, I'm not sure if I'd be able to kill the baby.

[ifyoucantfixit]

          No one could ever be sure of doing it.  I think it would totally be a case by case thing.

       I probably am coming off as a non feeling person after my answers to all these questions.  If that
       Is so, I am sad about it.  I am just a pragmatist.  As Gary said he is an anarchist, and doesnt want to
       do anything of this nature..I am a pragmatist, and want to do the right thing , in order to help
       the greatest  amount of people, at a given time.  I personally would hate to do it. 
       
           Maybe. I have an anarchist attitude about survival.  And about how others perceive me.  I
        have a very strong moral code.  but it is my own........

[delalluvia]

ok. so you live. What kind of life would you have? The thought of killing an innocent to allow myself to live is not a choice I would make....rationalizing that you are saving OTHER people is just that a rationalization. In the end if you are truthful with yourself, that is what you are doing...thinking only of yourself.

given the scenario without being given the options, I would never have thought of smothering a baby....but I have found lately that I am in the minority with my freakishly backwater sense of morality

So if you were standing there with your own children, you wouldn't do it for them?  Or maybe you have children hidden elsewhere.  Would you not smother this baby, knowing that you would be killed with the others in the group and your children would be orphaned and have to figure out how to survive on their own?

[delalluvia]

For some reason this is making me think about the terrible plane wreck up in the Andes mountains back in the 1970's. I'm sure you all are familiar with this. The survivors of the wreck were forced to eat the dead. Remember that? This is another one of those "could I do it?" scenarios.

I don't think I could. But I suppose one never really knows for certain until they are faced with something like this. It's a chilling thought.

This very same thing happened to the Donner party in the 1800's. I think it happened in Colorado.

Eating dead people is a heckuva lot easier decision to make than smothering a live baby or giving up others to be killed in your stead.

Cannibalism wouldn't be a walk in the park decision-wise, but the people who are dead won't mind missing a couple of parts. 

Bon apetit. 

Actually in the Andes Mountain Crash event, I believe one woman - the mother of someone - refused to eat dead people and died from weakness/injury later.