The Morality Quiz

[Penthesilea]

That would be me, as the priest in this scenario. That would be the point at which I'd rip off my collar, say "I can't handle this!" and walk away, giving up my vows forever.

 

From Della:
As soon as I got close enough to smell it, my own gorge rose and I turned right around and went to the kitchen and took over for my sister so she could do it.  Even as a parent I wouldn't be able to handle it.  Ick!   

There may come situations in life where you have to handle things you thought you couldn't. Just figure it's your child and you're alone with him/her in the middle of the night.

[dot-matrix]

I remember discussing this in Catholic grade school during my altar boy classes (yes, we had to take classes before we became altar boys). The question came up on what the priest should do if for some reason the communion recipient vomited up the host when giving Communion outside the church building. The answer to this question was that a good and pious priest would consume the host and vomit, since the vomit still contained the Body and Blood of Christ. I think I remember them telling us the transubstantiation lasted around 20 to 30 minutes after the host was consumed. Once digested it changed back to regular bread. Isn't that disgusting? But at our church we had a vessel in the sacristy (called a sacrarium. It looked like a sink. I THINK that was the name. Help me with this Kerry, if you know the answer) where any remnants of the host and wine could be deposited in a respectful and dignified manner.

Hey David and Kerry that extra little "sink" in the Sacistry is callled a Pisena.  It has a long pipe that goes deep into the ground because consecrated wine and crumbs, i.e. the body&blood of Christ, cannot be poured into the sewer.  It must be consumed or disposed of naturally on the ground.  If consecrated bread and wine are poured into the Pisena then it must be flushed twice with a pitcher of holy water.   Amazing the things you pick up in life   

[David In Indy]

Hey David and Kerry that extra little "sink" in the Sacistry is callled a Pisena.  It has a long pipe that goes deep into the ground because consecrated wine and crumbs, i.e. the body&blood of Christ, cannot be poured into the sewer.  It must be consumed or disposed of naturally on the ground.  If consecrated bread and wine are poured into the Pisena then it must be flushed twice with a pitcher of holy water.   Amazing the things you pick up in life   

Thank you Dottie!! I stand corrected. 

Pisena isn't ringing a bell with me though, but this doesn't surprise me at all. Half of the time I cannot even remember my own eye color. 

[underdown]

A good friend of mine a while ago asked me to her small catholic church in the mountains.
It was my first ever mass attendance, so I didn't have much of a clue about the protocol,
although she was aware that I knew the ropes in a protestant church, so couldn't be an embarrassment.
Uh uh. She made me follow and take the sacraments.
I didn't open my mouth (the priest's fingers had been in all the other mouths), so he put a wafer in my hand.
Being very polite, I held onto it until after the wine so as not to accidentally drop it into the cup.
Then I was dug in the ribs and whispered to about swallowing the wafer, and proper etiquette.
That was when I dropped the wafer on the floor, bent down and picked it up, being whispered to, again,
something about hell-fire and swallowing the damm thing.
So, I dutifully swallowed. Then I looked at the front pew, and a little old lady staring at me with the sort
of look one might give a gate-crashing mufti.

Funny how one can try to please, and still offend the upright and moral.
I guess, to some people, the moral thing is more important.
Which ties in with the smothering of the baby.

They didn't offer me a cup of tea. And I was never invited again.

Rob

[Dagi]

After hearing about priests eating someone else's vomit -- even eating your own would be outragous in my book -- somehow killing babies doesn't seem all that repulsive after all.   

Oh, and just to clear things up about the communion thing.  It's true that Catholics do not want you to take communion out of politeness.  But, as I understand it, Anglicans and Episcopalians don't mind.  I'm also pretty sure that they view the Eucharist as symboic and not litteral.  I went to an Episcopal church for a few months when I was in college, and those people were pretty wishy-washy about their principals.  It was like Catholicism with a wink and a nod.  I just can't imagine them taking a communion waffer that seriously.  I was told flat out that I didn't have to profess to anything before taking communion.  But the church I went to was attended mostly by a bunch of college profs and their families, so maybe this was not a typical setup. 

I was very young when I tried out that church.  But now that I'm a little older, and my knees are gone, and I have hernias, and I'm balance impaired, I'm not sure I could stand the athletic rigors of an Episcopal service.  You have to stand up at certain parts, then kneel, then set, then stand up again.  It was just up and down, up and down the whole time.  Since I come from a Baptist background where you pretty much sit there and listen, I was a bit in awe.  I didn't know if I was in church, or if I had somehow stumbled into an aerobics class.  If I went now I'd have to go home and nap after.

Another part of the service I found strange was when everybody started shaking hands and wishing one another peace.  As I said, these were mostly college profs and their families, and not even the English were more buttoned down and resevered than these people.  There was something so forced and artifical about it, and I would sometimes want to giggle. Imagine Nancy Reagan turning to you with that big, fake smile on her face, offering you her hand, and saying peace, like she was some kind of hippie.

The sermons were complete snoozefests.  The only one that I remember was about a boy walking by a fruit vender every day and steeling apples as he passed.  As far as I can tell the priest was saying that it was wrong of the boy to tempt himself, and that he should have avoided the vender if he couldn't stop himself from steeling the apples as he went by.  I just sat there and thought, wow!, so this is what passes for a moral dilemma around here.

The priest was kind of cute, so I found the act of getting down on my knees in front of him, and having him feed me kind of erotic.  I know that's not an appropriate response, but what can I say?  I'm kind of pervy I guess.  I didn't much like drinking out of the same cup as everybody else though.  That seemed kind of unsanitary.

Gary               

Gary you are cracking me up.     

[delalluvia]

Gary you are cracking me up.     

What Gary said about the unsanitary practices.  I can't believe they still do the one cup thing in this day and age.  Yeah, they wipe the rim of the cup, but yeech.  My dad was Catholic, so every so often we went to Mass.  I enjoyed the music and the getting up and kneeling down, the incense and all the ritual aspects, but other than that the sermons were no more exciting or interesting than a Protestant Church's.

[Penthesilea]

 It was like Catholicism with a wink and a nod.  

I like this description.
About 1/3 of all inhabitants in Germany belong to the roman-catholic church (another 1/3 is protestant). But I have never met anybody (at least not knowingly) who truly believes in the transubstantiation, meaning who truly believes the wafer will magically be transformed into meat.
Somehow I doubt that anybody believes it.

Back to Gary's Catholicism with a wink and a nod: that's how people live with their religion here, no matter whether we're catholic or protestant. Yes, we believe in God and Jesus Christ, yes we belong to a church - but that doesn't mean we follow every rule and every thought of some old men in Rome. We just don't take the whole religion thingie so seriously.

I have a side question regarding the wine during communion: in German RC churches, only the priest drinks from the cup. He does so representatively for all others. The churchgoers only get a wafer, but no wine. Is this different in the US (and other countries)?

[serious crayons]

the athletic rigors of an Episcopal service.  You have to stand up at certain parts, then kneel, then set, then stand up again.  It was just up and down, up and down the whole time.  Since I come from a Baptist background where you pretty much sit there and listen, I was a bit in awe.

  In one of my favorite books as a kid, two sisters switch from the Baptist church to the Episcopal church (that's not the whole plot -- just a minor episode). Their dad makes this exact same comment!

After reading that book, I got my mom to take me to the Episcopalian church for a few months. It was true, there was a lot of kneeling and getting up. But as I'd never attended much church before (aside from a Presbyterian Sunday school for a few months when I was younger) I had no basis for comparison.

The sermons were complete snoozefests.  The only one that I remember was about a boy walking by a fruit vender every day and steeling apples as he passed.  As far as I can tell the priest was saying that it was wrong of the boy to tempt himself, and that he should have avoided the vender if he couldn't stop himself from steeling the apples as he went by.  I just sat there and thought, wow!, so this is what passes for a moral dilemma around here.

Too easy for you, Gary? What -- did the sermons you were used to posed moral dilemmas like, "Imagine you're with a group of people hiding in a basement during wartime, and suddenly a baby starts crying ..."? 

I went with a friend to a Catholic service once, and the priest told a story about this kid who had five dollars. He decided to give them to the poor. Then he found another five dollars in the street! So God was rewarding him for his charity! My friend whispered to me, "If he hadn't given away the first five he'd have ten dollars, but I don't think that was the point of the story." That cracked me up, and I couldn't stop giggling for a long time. I didn't get invited back, either.

[opinionista]

I like this description.
About 1/3 of all inhabitants in Germany belong to the roman-catholic church (another 1/3 is protestant). But I have never met anybody (at least not knowingly) who truly believes in the transubstantiation, meaning who truly believes the wafer will magically be transformed into meat.
Somehow I doubt that anybody believes it.

I agree. I think most folk, even here in Catholic Spain, know the whole transubstantiation thing is symbolic.

Back to Gary's Catholicism with a wink and a nod: that's how people live with their religion here, no matter whether we're catholic or protestant. Yes, we believe in God and Jesus Christ, yes we belong to a church - but that doesn't mean we follow every rule and every thought of some old men in Rome. We just don't take the whole religion thingie so seriously.

In Spain there's a new trend. A lot of people have signed a document (sometimes it is some kind of book) letting the Church know they formally quit the Church and everything it represents. In Spanish we call it Apostatar. I believe in English is apostatize, but not sure. A priest from a neaby town in Madrid got fed up with it and took the book away. He actually prohibited people to sign said book, causing a major protest in the town. Protesters even called the news, and he had to put it back.

I have a side question regarding the wine during communion: in German RC churches, only the priest drinks from the cup. He does so representatively for all others. The churchgoers only get a wafer, but no wine. Is this different in the US (and other countries)?

I've seen this in Spain too. I think the Health Department prohibits the Church to give wine to everyone from the same cup. They only get a wafer.

PS. It should be the same in US Mainland because in Puerto Rico (according to my aunt) nobody gets to drink from the cup. Only the priest.

[moremojo]

If one has not fulfilled all or any of the requirements leading up to the taking of communion at Mass, it is my personal opinion that it is not appropriate to do so. And it all comes down to those four little words, "The Body of Christ." If you cannot honestly respond, "Amen," in accordance with Catholic doctrine, it is not appropriate for you to be responding, "Amen."

I should note that the only communion I have ever received has been at Methodist services. The Methodist church (or at least ones at whose services I have attended) welcomes all to come forward and partake of communion. In all cases in which I have done so, I felt it would have been awkward and embarrassing to have refused. I have rationalized my experiences of communion by telling myself that I am worthy of Jesus's sacrifice, though I do not believe in the necessity (nor necessarily believe in the efficacy) of the sacrifice.