Author Topic: Earl's karmic revenge - by ribtickleui  (Read 5432 times)

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Earl's karmic revenge - by ribtickleui
« on: December 17, 2007, 12:03:15 pm »
Earl's karmic revenge   
  by ribtickleuk   (Fri Nov 2 2007 02:34:25)
   
   
UPDATED Sat Nov 3 2007 18:45:12
Earl was beaten with a tire iron, spurred up and dragged around behind a horse, which figuratively speaking became a dead horse; horse of the dead.

Ennis del Mar never quite knew if his father had been involved in the brutal homophobic murder, but clearly his father approved of what had happened and took his two sons there to teach them something.

A few years later his father, and unfortunately his mother too (whose opinion on Earl we do not know), were driving down a road called Dead Horse Road, and they missed the only curve in what is described (in the film) as a 42-mile stretch.

A curve is of course a bend, and gay people were called bent, or even benders, as the opposite of straight (heterosexual). So the only bend in this otherwise 42-mile long straight highway caught them unawares and killed at least one homophobe, if not Earl's actual murderer.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by tomtrueman   (Fri Nov 2 2007 02:45:25)
   
   
UPDATED Fri Nov 2 2007 12:25:38
Interesting idea. Poetic justice. It was pretty clear to me that Ennis's sicko father at least had a hand in Earl's torture and murder. He seemed to know exactly where his corpse was.

And what kind of a father thinks it's appropriate to drag his innocent young sons out to show them a man's mutilated corpse lying in a ditch? Yet people still whine about ALMA being "badly treated"? It just boggles the mind.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by toycoon-too   (Fri Nov 2 2007 09:12:45)   

   
This is one of my favorite subtle ironies of the film:
Ennis' folks are so straight, they miss the one curve in 42 miles!

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow." - Oscar Wilde

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by garycottle   (Fri Nov 2 2007 09:45:29)
   
   
Toycoon!!! You're back!!! Hello there.   

 
Gary

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by littlewing1957   (Fri Nov 2 2007 10:09:11)
   
   
Toycoon, Baby! I'm so glad to see you're back. I've missed you more than I can say!

Everybody should be working on an afghan - Juliet Mills

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by garycottle   (Fri Nov 2 2007 09:56:43)
   
   
Good point, ribtickleuk. It's been pointed out on this board before that roads can represent civilization. Earl was trying to stretch the bounds of civilization when he lived openly with his male lover. So it's very apt that Mr. Del Mar was snagged by this one bend in the road that could be said to be Earl's bend.

Jack and Ennis go off into the wilderness, and off trail, when they are together up on Brokeback. And when Ennis comes down off the mountain we see him working on a road, trying to conform to society's expectations. Then when he reunites with Jack again a few years later they begin to meet one another in the wilderness, far away from roads and trails.

 
Gary

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by malina-5   (Fri Nov 2 2007 10:39:09)   


So it's very apt that Mr. Del Mar was snagged by this one bend in the road that could be said to be Earl's bend.

Very interesting point, ribtickleuk! And I like your summation of it, Gary, and the point that Jack and Ennis can be together only where there are no roads.

I think I might be mixing the poetic with the... well, with something else, but, all I can think of when I read this is the fact that it is Ennis who bears the brunt of everything that is 'punishing' about roads!

Oh, no, wait, that's not really true. He's not the one who gets killed! But, everything that happens to anyone on a road affects Ennis profoundly. Roads bring him loss.

And his own ability to travel them is limited. He has to hitch hike... or he has a pick up that 'won't make it' very far.

Maybe at the end, with his parked .. immobile.. trailer... and with the curved road outside his trailer bringing him something good this time... it really feels like a kind of resolution. Like Ennis has found his way of dealing with or relating to roads - permanently parked at the side of one.

And it's nice to see how zippily Junior uses the road, like she has nothing to fear from it. Courtesy of Curt.... interesting that he has that little car rather than a pickup! It's almost the first car we see, isn't it? Let alone a small car. Maybe a new mode of travel, which is ... well, more zippy and nimble and able to survive, than the old? Hmm... I quite like that. Ennis and Junior and their vehicles, at the end.... Ennis's being the trailer. They've both found a way to deal with roads!

I don't mind where you come from
As long as you come to me

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by tomtrueman   (Fri Nov 2 2007 12:50:08)   

   
Interesting theme, here. How roads affect the characters, and the different ways they relate to and deal with them. Even nearly two years after I first saw the movie, new themes are still being brought up that give food for thought.

People who thought this movie didn't have much going for it, and who just dismiss it, obviously haven't thought about it as deeply as the people here have.

And Malina raises another aspect I hadn't thought about -- that at the end, Ennis's trailer is stuck in one place like he is, now that Jack is gone, while Alma Jr. is free as a bird, thanks to Kurt!

Interesting isn't it, how all the women end up better off than all the men? Think about it. Jack: dead. Lureen: rich and independent. Ennis: desperately alone and mourning. Alma: married to a guy with a nice house and a lot more money. Monroe: stuck with whiny manipulative Alma. Junior: looking forward to her wedding day with a man who loves her, and who trusts her with his car. Cassie: wasted no time before she hooked up with Carl, even before she knew what had happened to Ennis. And let's not forget Earl: brutally murdered, his mutilated corpse left lying in a ditch....

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by malina-5   (Fri Nov 2 2007 13:10:32)
   
   
And Malina raises another aspect I hadn't thought about -- that at the end, Ennis's trailer is stuck in one place like he is, now that Jack is gone, while Alma Jr. is free as a bird, thanks to Kurt!

Interesting isn't it, how all the women end up better off than all the men? Think about it. Jack: dead. Lureen: rich and independent. Ennis: desperately alone and mourning. Alma: married to a guy with a nice house and a lot more money. Monroe: stuck with whiny manipulative Alma. Junior: looking forward to her wedding day with a man who loves her, and who trusts her with his car. Cassie: wasted no time before she hooked up with Carl, even before she knew what had happened to Ennis. And let's not forget Earl: brutally murdered, his mutilated corpse left lying in a ditch....

Yes, this is true. I wasn't thinking about it in quite that way. I thought that perhaps Ennis had reached a point in his relationship with roads where he could comfortably stay put. And I thought it was perhaps a positive thing for him that the road now brings him his daughter. Not loss. I'm thinking of when he rushes out with her sweater, but she's gone, and then he puts it away for her in the knowledge that she will come back for it... that the road will bring her that way again.

I wasn't viewing the whole thing through the lens of gender. But if we need to compare, yes, maybe it's true that 'worse' things happen to men. Although that's debatable. I'm not sure Ma Twist ends up better off than OMT, for example. I think it would be a horrible thing to lose my son and to be stuck living with that old coot hawking in his coffee cup every ten seconds.

No, I think the women suffer too. They just aren't the focal point of the movie, and do not get mutilated. Well, Ennis's mother doesn't fare so well, I guess.
I don't mind where you come from
As long as you come to me

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Fri Nov 2 2007 13:46:00)   

   
"A curve is of course a bend, and gay people were called bent, or even benders, as the opposite of straight (heterosexual)".

Maybe I am just ignorant to these types of terms, but I never heard of a gay person being called bent. Now at the risk of showing my age when we were children it was quite popular (the in thing) to tell someone you were mad at to "get bent". I always thought it was just a silly little way of saying f--k off. When I read this post it triggered my memory of the phrase "get bent" which I totally forgot about altogether.

Were there two slang meanings for bent or were we mistakenly misusing it because we overheard it somewhere? Does anyone know if we were mistakenly using an anti gay slur when we said "get bent" or not?

Btw, the only slang I ever heard bender being used as was as "someone going on a bender" meant as drunken stupor basically.

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by tomtrueman   (Fri Nov 2 2007 14:28:05)   


Have you heard of the play "Bent" which depicts a love affair between two men in a concentration camp? I didn't see it when it first was on stage here, years ago, because a friend saw it and said it was unremittingly ugly and depressing, depicting one of the blackest periods of human history. (A new production is currently being performed here now, I see.)

My good friend Merr (remember her?) e-mails frequently and says she saw the movie that was made of it starring Clive Owen and Lothaire Bluteau. She had become interested in it because there's a brief excerpt of it in the new Israeli Film "The Bubble", with a glimpse of a performance of it in Hebrew, starring sexy Lior Ashkenazi.

Otherwise, I hadn't heard the expression "bent" used to mean gay in local parlance -- but here they don't say "get bent" either. There are expressions that do cross the Atlantic because of popular movies or TV shows, but many that don't ever seem to have wide use. "Kinky" is a British expression not commonly found in North America, and "get stuffed" is another one. (I'm never sure how rude the latter one is meant to be.)

I know that some gay men also avoid the term "straight" because it implies that the opposite is "crooked" -- and they prefer the term "non-gay".

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by ribtickleuk   (Sat Nov 3 2007 08:25:13)   

   
UPDATED Sat Nov 3 2007 09:15:02
The term 'bent' has generally become outmoded since the mid 70s in the UK too. Even if the term never made it across the Atlantic, the term straight is used, so the unstated implication remains. I was called bent a few times in my youth, but the last time I can remember a reference to it was a classic letter to an agony aunt in a British tabloid in the late 80s which gay magazines ran with, where a guy wrote in worried he was gay because his penis bent to one side when he got an erection (he had Peyronie's disease, the evidential downfall of President Clinton).

Another way of looking at the bent (or crooked) road wordplay, is that up until the 60s homosexuals were regarded in psychiatry, and often referred to in press crime reports, as "deviants" or "sexual deviants" - they deviated away from the heteronormative, that which was considered normal and everything else perverse, and it would be from that earlier term that bent and straight eventually emerged. If a road bends it is also said to deviate to the left, or right.

It might even be considered that - Jack Twist, this Dickensian-sounding name, was the only bend/crook/deviation in Ennis's straight life. The twist in his heterosexual 'sobriety'.

In Britain up until the 70s to speak of a "bent copper" meant a crooked policeman, one who could be bribed, and conversely to say of someone "he's straight" could mean he's trustworthy or reliable, as in the phrase "straight as a die" (from tap and die). But even that meaning also ties in with why gay men were called bent, these "shirt lifters" were said to be untrustworthy, easily corrupted into espionage or vice, and risky to be near when bending over to pick up the shower soap.

The film version of Bent is well worth checking out.

Bender usually refers more to transvestism/transsexualism, for example the 80s cross-dressing pop stars Boy George and Marilyn were labelled 'gender benders' by the UK media. But even that has had some flexibility, as meanings evolve. When gay characters first appeared in one of Britain's leading soap operas around 1987, featuring a relationship between a businessman and a market stall holder, neither of whom cross-dressed, the show's name of Eastenders was rechristened Eastbenders by some of the right-wing tabloids.

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by ribtickleuk   (Sat Nov 3 2007 08:38:11)
   
   
Very interesting ideas about roads earlier in the thread.

Roads, and the vehicles which travel along them, seem to act as chapter bookmarks to almost all the major events, failures or successes, throughout the movie. For example the transmission going on the pickup put paid to Ennis's education because he couldn't travel down a road to school, so this threw him into ranchwork. Then his parents die on one. Jack travels down a road to a halt and meets him for the first time, and their reunion sees Ennis waiting, watching and listening for Jack's vehicle to terminate in front of him again, before the pair steal off to a motel.

Earlier, Ennis & Alma are shown at a drive-in movie, where her pregnancy is first established to the viewer. Jack may have fathered a child, which was born soon into his relationship with Lureen, when he was mounted and deflowered in the back of a car. When Ennis visits Jack's bedroom at the Twist's the story says he looked out of the window and wondered if for most of Jack's life the road outside was the only one he saw.

It's not a gay cowboy or gay shepherd flick, why it's a gay road movie.

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by garycottle   (Sat Nov 3 2007 09:14:40)   


Jack mounted and deflowered? Ah, I love it when you talk dirty, ribtickleuk.   Anyway, thanks for the posts. Interesting points.

BTW, what's an agony aunt? Is that someone who writes advice columns like Dear Abby?

Oh, I just have to confess that I love the term shirt lifter. We don't use that here in the states, but I know of it nevertheless. And it's so descriptive and apt. I do love lifting the shirttails of randy young men out for a "bender" with Daddy.   

 
Gary

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by ribtickleuk   (Sat Nov 3 2007 09:27:53)   


BTW, what's an agony aunt? Is that someone who writes advice columns like Dear Abby?

Yes, one of those unshockable close-permed 50+ female newspaper columnists that people write to for advice on love or to remedy their embarrassing sexual problems.

I like 'shirt lifter', it's funny rather than abusive, although it's rarely used here these days. I guess it must have become the opposite of skirt lifter.

I'll try to slip in some more English dirty talk in future. Proper potty mouth, me.

Re: A honest question for anyone who can shed some insight   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sat Nov 3 2007 14:58:03)
   

Thanks Tom. I have never heard of the play "Bent" but based on the plot as you describe it sounds very morose. I remember Merr, I glad she is well and staying in touch. Maybe I will watch the film, even though I hate movies about how evil mankind was to others in the late 30's through mid 40's. I mostly watch them as a reminder to stay vigilant and never forget what happened.

Based on what I read the term "get bent" (thinking we were saying f--ck off) that we used circa late 60's early 70's was probably regional phenomenon. I have never heard it since then. I guess it was not as widely used as I assumed. The original post just reminded me of a long forgotten phrase.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by Distant-Harmonica   (Sat Nov 3 2007 16:03:23)   

   
UPDATED Sat Nov 3 2007 16:05:51
Very interesting,enlightening thread.

Any thoughts or previously arrived conclusions as to why Aquire drove a car? Given the nature of his business,wouldn't it be logical and beneficial for him to drive a truck which would immediately be at his disposal for emergency situations?

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by enoughtime   (Sat Nov 3 2007 16:52:09)   

   
I remember Merr, I glad she is well and staying in touch.

Of course RP remembers Merr. Her name used to appear in his posts almost as often as Clancy's. Most of those old posts have ... disappeared. But here's one:

Re: i disliked this movie by - RP_Mac_27 on Fri Oct 19 2007 08:56:19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point however this form of behavior is quite prevelant on this board. It is like a group of sharks that has run out of a food source and have started feeding off themselves until then there Merr none.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sat Nov 3 2007 17:33:27)   

   
UPDATED Sat Nov 3 2007 17:34:49
Actually slob it was like this

"And then there Merr none


I used to use it all the time. It was denoting her departure and the impending departure of Clancy and well something you claimed you were doing yourself but have proven uncapable of fulfilling.

Katherine please, you have to give it a rest. You are a frigid skank that antagonizes others, can not relate to the persecution of homosexuals (although you will tell them how to think and react), and your ownly interest in this movie is to pleasure yourself over a couple of scenes.

You see I can live up to things and not be dishonest, sneaky or just plain horrid which you are incapable of doing.

Peek-A-Boo later.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by Distant-Harmonica   (Sat Nov 3 2007 18:11:06)   

   
UPDATED Sat Nov 3 2007 18:17:55
You know...uh...RP_Mac_27,
I don't wish to create a conflict with you... but.... I fail to see how you are a refreshing and welcome alternative to clancy's obnoxious,belittling and arrogant presense.
Given your constant usage of disparaging remarks, you display the very same characteristic traits of he you speak of with contempt for his disrespectful treatment of others,actually resorting to the very same manner of condescension.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sat Nov 3 2007 18:24:51)
   

Well Distant Harmonica you are entitled to your own opinion. I will agree with your accurate description of Clancy though!

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by ribtickleuk   (Sat Nov 3 2007 18:21:27)
   
   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 00:46:55
Any thoughts or previously arrived conclusions as to why Aquire drove a car? Given the nature of his business,wouldn't it be logical and beneficial for him to drive a truck which would immediately be at his disposal for emergency situations?

I wondered that too. Especially when he is shown driving off from the field behind Jack & Ennis after telling them "you ranch stiffs never were any good". Bit of rain and he could have been slip-sliding all over in his Dinky car.

The wealthy are all shown with cars. Aguirre, owner of 1000 sheep, has one, but his staff take supplies to Ennis & Jack in a pickup. Lureen, daughter of a Texan millionaire, has one her Daddy bought her. Alma Jnr rolls up in her fiancés sports car at the movie's end, something he can afford because he works in the oil industry. Everyone else has pickups to represent poverty and/or unrealised dreams and burden (they are goin' nowhere), whereas the car drivers all travel light and succeed in their financial or romantic ambitions unhindered. The Twists are shown with a pickup that looks in disrepair outside their ranch house indicating they are stuck there 'til the day they die. The man who almost runs Ennis down and gets the better of him in a fight on a road is driving a flashy 4wd.

There's a neat bookend, like the Thanksgiving scenes, where Aguirre starts his car behind Jack & Ennis in the field, and immediately it cuts to Ennis adjusting the carburettor on Jack's beat-up pickup to get it to start outside Aguirre's trailer. This serves to contrast their freedom (to determine their own destiny). In the story Jack was later to spend half his time under the vehicle, perhaps suggesting he was fixing the transmission like what had failed on Ennis's brother's pickup, and he drove around the rodeo circuit living off only $3000 dollars a year (I think this was reduced to a mentioned $2000 in the movie).

Additional roady/vehicle bit: Earl dies in a ditch down a dirt track, a tire iron has been used. Jack dies on a dirt road (Ennis thinks), hit in the face by a tire rim. "He wanted to curse her for letting Jack die on the dirt road." Theirs deaths are a dirty business - murderous, unnatural and connected with wheels like they are hit & run roadkills.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by Distant-Harmonica   (Sat Nov 3 2007 19:00:24)
   
   
Geese oh man !!! I am delighted, overwhelmed and humbled all at once. How does ones mind ever completely grasp the seemingly endless complexities and dimensions that encompass this film?

Thank you ribtickleuk !!

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by enoughtime   (Sat Nov 3 2007 19:31:07)   

   
Actually slob it was like this

"And then there Merr none

I used to use it all the time. It was denoting her departure and the impending departure of Clancy

Tut tut, RP. When you "copy" a passage, as I did your post, the computer doesn't change the words. Here's the link, unless you've since deleted it along with the others.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/86790241?p=5&d=8786 5396#87865396

Alternatively, you could check out the post you yourself wrote today, quoting Clyde quoting your post:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/89051906?d=89056136#890 56136


Why exactly, RP, did you feel the need to "denote Merr's departure"? Hmmm??

Katherine please, you have to give it a rest. You are a frigid skank that antagonizes others, can not relate to the persecution of homosexuals (although you will tell them how to think and react), and your ownly interest in this movie is to pleasure yourself over a couple of scenes.


You know what? Clancy was a great guy in many ways, but I disapproved of his calling people "moron" -- and said so, several times, in public, on the board.

But on his most angry day, talking to the most vile troll, Clancy never came within 10 miles of saying anything that ugly (and Clancy was a better speller, too). Most people here remember Clancy, and they realize that.

RP_Mac, you are a troll trying to fit in as a regular person, and many people here realize that, too.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sat Nov 3 2007 21:02:08)   
Ignore this User | Report Abuse   
What on god's green earth is really wrong with you? Katherine get a grip you are not making any sense at all. Is this some bizarre side effect of your mid life crisis?

All you did is copy what I posted today to Clyde a while back. Again skank, nobody is denying it or doing anything disingenuous other than what you were exposed for doing you phony!

I merely pointed out the more common (as in frequent) use of Merr's name by myself.

Why are you so sore, did you miss your little Halloween dress up day and now have to walk around as yourself? An ugly, frigid, self loathing .
Go back to pleasuring yourself over two small scenes in Brokeback Mountain.

Do you want me to repost you stating that you were leaving hear for good, only to get caught using a new screen name and lingering here every hour on the hour.

And stop rewriting history; you were pretty gun ho with old Clancy saying rude things to Tom or anyone else that did not conform to your ill advised pre-conceived notions. I seem to recall you piling it on pretty well when Clancy called Tom the “scum of the earth”

Now go already you silly little @ss.
 
Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by enoughtime   (Sat Nov 3 2007 21:31:24)
   
   
I seem to recall you piling it on pretty well when Clancy called Tom the “scum of the earth”

Then you seem to recall wrong. To be honest, I was sorry Clancy used that term, even though he had used it in defense of me, speaking to someone who had previously called me a few names.

Tell you what, for more than a year I've been moderator of the Open Forum at BetterMost, the one where we analyze the movie and story. Over there, words like those you've used on this thread would not be allowed to stand for 10 minutes.

But here, I don't believe in putting people on "ignore," and I rarely report posts to administrators. I figure that, difficult as it is, it's best to keep one's eyes open to the very real ugliness that's out there in the world. So in the 21 months I've been posting on this board, I've reported only two or three posts -- and those were ones that were so sickening that I just couldn't stand the thought of anyone else having to look at them.

One of them was yours, RP_Mac.

And BTW, this was weeks before you started attacking me.




Anyone up for BetterMost? I know many of the people here have gotten sick of trolls and headed over there already, but for anyone who hasn't, it's great. The cardinal rule is, no personal attacks. Just lots of nice, friendly discussions of the movie and story (and other stuff). As Ellemeno likes to say, "BetterMost -- where trolls don't last an hour." RP_Mac, that would be you.


Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sat Nov 3 2007 21:55:29)   

   
 Then would you please take your chunky @ss to bettermost already Katherine.

Oh and btw, where I wouldn't last an hour. As that old cantankerous coot used to say teh hee teh hee!

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by tomtrueman   (Sun Nov 4 2007 11:26:37)   

   
For sheer unmitigated GALL, this one takes the cake! I can't think of anything that would put me off BetterMost more than knowing that YOU of all people are actually a moderator over there. The mind boggles.

For weeks I was subjected to sneering personal attacks, insults and ridicule, from YOU and your cranky buddy Clancy. And what did I do to "deserve" that? I'd had the courage to speak up against the Straight Mafia's prescribed interpretation of what happened to Jack! It's just incredible.

For two years now, I have been visiting this board almost every day, and have started many popular threads. I have posted HUNDREDS of thoughtful and painstakingly written messages, which have received much praise and positive feedback from members. Yet when I upset flag-waver Clancy by simply daring to criticize his not-so-perfect country in the context of discussions of homophobia, suddenly he redefined ME as a "troll" and started his vicious personal attacks against me.

And what does BM's brave "moderator" do? She says she is "sorry" he behaved as he did, but she immediately tries to defend him for doing it! If that's your idea of battling trolls, BetterMost should show you the door. You don't have the first clue what a troll really is. It is NOT just someone who disagrees with YOU! I'm astounded that you haven't understood that yet.

"The cardinal rule is, no personal attacks."So tell us, Enoughtime/Latjoreme/Katherine/Whatever: Just how long would Clancy have lasted on BetterMost if he had called a good contributing member a "moron" and "THE SCUM OF THE EARTH" (caps are his) for having the cheek to disagree with him? Are you trying to tell us he would have been gone within the hour? I'll bet he occupies a revered and exalted place on there, because you are too afraid to stand up to him. What a hypocrite you are!

I was going to invite everybody to read the old threads to see how disgracefully you and your buddy behaved -- and then it occurred to me that THAT's why you were in such a hurry to become someone else through a name change. You knew that a single click of the mouse would erase all your offensive messages, and your tawdry history would be expunged from the record. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by enoughtime   (Sun Nov 4 2007 11:46:39)   

   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 11:47:40
Tom, is this your response to the PM I sent you last night suggesting we set aside our differences for the moment?

OK. Thanks. Looks like I got the message, in any case.

I wish my old posts were still there, just for occasions like this one. Mine went back almost two years, too. 


Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by tomtrueman   (Sun Nov 4 2007 12:24:58)   


It was clear to me that you were attempting to call a truce simply because you were losing. I'm sure it's clear to everyone else too that, if Clancy hadn't abandoned you, the two of you would still be gleefully tag-teaming me every time I tried to log on to discuss the movie with my friends.

But now that you see what it's like being the target of the attacks, you don't think it's quite as much fun, do you!

As I think I made clear in my message just above, there are too many sore points to just pretend aren't there. And it's tragically typical that you just sidestepped every one of them.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by enoughtime   (Sun Nov 4 2007 12:35:43)   

   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 15:20:53
It was clear to me that you were attempting to call a truce simply because you were losing.

It's clear to me that everyone is losing. You, me, and everyone else on this board.

Tom, as you know from my PM, I wanted to set aside our differences because I was politely asking you not to ally yourself with RP_Mac, someone who uses terms like "frigid skank" and attacks littlewing, etc. I think RP is debasing this board, and I had hoped you would agree.

I "sidestepped" the "sore points" you raised above because I am trying to quit arguing. I of course have different viewpoints from yours. But I am extremely tired of writing about them, and of the attacks and accusations, and I'm sure everyone else here is, too.


Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by tomtrueman   (Sun Nov 4 2007 12:48:10)   

   
Believe me, no one is as tired of all the crap as I am. (Dorko gives us the weekends off, but I'm sure he'll be back spewing his sanctimonious and pompous bilge on Monday.)

But history cannot and should not be rewritten or erased by simply forgetting about it. Other people have short memories, and this means they never learn from their bad experiences. I always remember the times I've been attacked, and that keeps me vigilant.

"Never forget. Never surrender."

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine
  by darkoKnight33   (Sun Nov 4 2007 13:15:50)   

   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 16:23:23
Tom calling ANYONE sanctimonious and pompous is supremely ridiculous! People of his low moral caliber tend to use such pathetic devices to encourage their own disinformed views. This is the same moron who tells people that they miss "enlightenment" by ignoring his ugly rants. He keeps TRYING to attack my diction because he has nothing else he can use to asperse my reasonable (though confrontational) observations. How sad for him that he is so blinded by his own agenda!

Can anyone say HYPOCRITE?!

Re: You have some nerve Katherine   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sun Nov 4 2007 13:20:42)
   

UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 13:38:22
You never thought about taking your foot off someone's throat before when Clancy was right behind you. Your revisionist behavior is sickening. If Clancy were here you two would continue to deride others in your typical smug fashion.
When Clancy bailed you were forced to leave too but returned under an alias you conveniently did not mention until only after you were exposed. Do you actually believe your own bullsh-t?
You are unbelievable, why not be your true obnoxious, sneering, know it all self, rather than this pathetic groveling act.
You said you wanted to leave, can you at least keep your word on that? Please go now!

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sun Nov 4 2007 11:52:50)   


Uh Katherine, I think Tom just put a mirror in your face. I am sure you can not like what you see.
Regarding your sudden deletion of your account, but still remaining here, well Tom just hit the proverbial nail on the head!
You are one of the most opinionated, disrespectful posters I have ever had the displeasure to come across. It was either your opinion and no common decency or respect for any others.
Make good on your claim and leave you disingenuous lout!

See ya 
 
Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by enoughtime   (Sun Nov 4 2007 12:02:05)   

   
P.S. BTW, I do have one post remaining here from my latjoreme account. It's the one I valued enough to make a special point of saving when I deleted that account. My love for analyzing the story and movie are among the reasons why I was named a co-moderator of the Open Forum at BetterMost. It never occurred to me that there were any "wrong" or offensive answers in that process.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/88357336

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by littlewing1957   (Sun Nov 4 2007 15:03:19)
   
   
Katherine, you don't need to explain yourself to anyone. If people can't accept the fact that you want to put a stop to the bickering, so be it. They're the ones looking silly. You're right about BM, enoughtime! I do most of my posting about the movie over at BM, because that site is smart enough to get rid of scum when it appears. I'm not leaving here, though. I'm too stubborn.

Everybody should be working on an afghan - Juliet Mills

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by ribtickleuk   (Sun Nov 4 2007 16:57:58)   


UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 17:25:20
Please stop brutally murdering this thread, you bad-tempered bunch of Board bitches.

It's supposed to be about Earl's revenge, not another opportunity for the usual suspects to settle their own scores.

Which must be at least 234,489 - 234,489 by now with all the injury time.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by littlewing1957   (Sun Nov 4 2007 17:12:23)
   

Okay, okay! Sorry, ribtickleuk.

Everybody should be working on an afghan - Juliet Mills

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by darkoKnight33   (Sun Nov 4 2007 18:22:26)
   
   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 18:32:37
Who you calling a bitch?!
You look real morally superior when you appeal for peace with an introductory attack (NOT). I didn't even get involved in this thread until I was mentioned in an ignorant way. I then defended myself in a compact and accurate manner.

I will not sit idly by while people act the way he, and people like RP, act. If you would rather allow it to continue then you ARE part of the problem. Many feel the same as you. They think that I should just hush up and let people bombard this board with unreasonable rants which are followed up with illegitimate viral "defenses," and those people are ALSO part of the problem. You may say that I am ranting, but my thoughts are reasonable and you wouldn't have to 'suffer' them if the issue was gone. It is not gone so I will continue to voice my problem with it. You don't have to read my posts. So don't. If you can't see the problem I have with this person, well then, I am not speaking to you anyway.

You've been here for what a month or two Ribtickleuk? Now, all of a sudden you seem to think you are an authority. I have been around here for roughly two years and was present when this place was actually great, so please don't feel obliged to criticize my expectation of a higher standard.

I am no elitist, I don't feel your opinion of the film is dependent upon your length of participation here per se, but I do think you are out of line to try and become some pseudo-mediator in an issue that deals with the quality of this board. You simply don't have enough experience here to know where I'm coming from. The arguing will stop when baseless aspersions and disinformation are no longer welcomed with open arms, or indignant silence (which is almost the same thing).

I don't sit here and act as though I am totally innocent. I know I have descended beneath my normal level of integrity during this fight. But I haven't gone to the depths that others have gone and even my trips into slight indignity are based in a legitimate extraction of someone's nonsensical ramblings. I don't simply pull accusations out of mid-air (as some do) merely to get the last word.

Ultimatley what I am trying to say here is:

You can't fix this, so you're gonna have to stand it. You are going to have to stand it until a it resolves itself, somehow.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sun Nov 4 2007 18:50:36)   

   
UPDATED Sun Nov 4 2007 19:40:38
Well Ribtickleuk I am not going to be as bombastic as my friend here DicklessKnight, but I too feel you are a little off base calling us all "bitches". If you take the time to read the thread from start to finish you will see "enoughtime" cast the first aspersion. Prior to enoughtime's (aka Latjoreme/Katherine/Ineedcrayons) attack on me the conversation was very pleasant. This can not be disputed. Having said that I am not going to sit idle while she (enoughtime/Latjoreme/Katherine) or idiot littleparrot poke at me. Now let's throw in DicklessKnight who has some serious issues with Tom and then throws a jab my way again, well I am sorry harmony is far from occurring here anytime soon unless Katherine stops lying and leaves and DicklessKnight stops provoking Tom for the sheer sake of for sport.

I will say sadly I must agree with DicklessKnight on one thing which as he stated "Ultimatley what I am trying to say here is:

You can't fix this, so you're gonna have to stand it. You are going to have to stand it until a it resolves itself, somehow".

It might not make you happy but sadly what he has said has some truth, although for the life of me I can not figure what he is still ranting about towards Tom.

The best first step for repairing this type of situation is that the first person to hijack this thread and cast aspersions, Katherine, is to make good on your word and get the F--k out of here already!

I have not started anything, but I will finish it with all this B.S. nonsense and revisionism.
Saving all the posts, yes all the posts.

*FYI - I was going to fix DicklessKnight's poor spelling of ultimately, but hey I am not changing his words, especially in quotes.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by Shasta254   (Sun Nov 4 2007 19:20:05)   

   
*FYI - I was going to fix DKnight's poor spelling of ultimately, but hey I am not changing his words, especially in qoutes.

Don't you think his spelling of "ultimately" is just a TYPO -- kinda like your spelling of "quotes"??

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by darkoKnight33   (Sun Nov 4 2007 19:42:48)
   
   
UPDATED Mon Nov 5 2007 11:48:55
^^ BURN! Exactly Shasta! Good call. I love how people will just latch onto any minute and inconsequential mistake and then try to inflate its significance to prove some convoluted point. You see this kind of imbecilic tactic all the time, yet people still seem to think it valid. It is really amazing how obvious and infinitely recycled these invalid ruses can be. Yet, you'll always see some egotistical fool profess them ad nauseum.

EDIT: I see he has already changed what he would contrive as a blatant show of low IQ(i.e his typo). It is a good thing you caught it when you did and by catching it you got a chance to simply and concisely show RP's hypocritical nature (not that anyone with any sense to them should need it to be shown). Still, good eye!

I am not trying to get you put in the middle of this crap. I just appreciate you pointing it out; because somehow when I do it I am branded a "trouble~maker."

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by ribtickleuk   (Mon Nov 5 2007 03:54:01)
   
   
darkoknight33:

Who you calling a bitch?!
You look real morally superior when you appeal for peace with an introductory attack (NOT).

To 'bitch': transitive verb: to behave spitefully or angrily towards. Putting a name to the dogfighting behaviour is not doing the same. If you feel that someone is incessantly attacking you, then the sensible thing to do would be to ignore them, instead of acting like a moth to a forum flame. And responding, often in kind, as I have seen you do, does the credibility of your argument no good.


RP_Mac_27:

If you take the time to read the thread from start to finish you will see "enoughtime" cast the first aspersion.

Of course I've read the thread from start-to-finish, I started the thread, and was enjoying the direction it was taking until, like almost any other thread with more than 10 on-topic postings, it gets hijacked into another excuse for a handful of posters to air their grievances, with you always in the thick of it. It is irrelevant and of no interest who was to blame on this particular occasion.

Other than your query about the etymology of the word bent earlier in this thread, which I responded to without acknowledgement, I have never seen you do anything else but attack some other posters in the entire 3 weeks I've been using this forum. I'm not taking sides in any of this, I'm a reserved Englishman and each side has given as good as they got from where I'm sitting, but I will offer that as a factual and impartial observation. The others have all posted about the movie from time-to-time, was there ever a time when you did? Can you blame me for wondering?


Shasta254:

Thank you, perhaps I should have used the alliterative 'bad-tempered bunch of Board butches' instead, and then they would have been proud to recognise themselves, but I'm grateful you understand the sense of frustration. We do after all, come here to discuss the movie, that's what this forum is set aside for. Even a recent thread about thanking people for their insight turned into another fight across several pages, and this one, about a murdered gay man, features some gay men who apparently wish to murder each other in print at every opportunity.

Jack Ribtickle says: "I come down from the mountain, hungry as hell for more Brokeback postings, and when I get here all I find is a bean fight." 

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by RP_Mac_27   6 days ago (Mon Nov 5 2007 06:34:55)   

   
UPDATED Mon Nov 5 2007 14:50:35
To borrow a phrase from someone else "You've been here for what a month or two Ribtickleuk? Now, all of a sudden you seem to think you are an authority. I have been around here for roughly two years and was present when this place was actually great, so please don't feel obliged to criticize my expectation of a higher standard".

Yes, long ago the movie was discussed by me and many others, some long gone, and some still here. More recently we would discuss issues of interest such as the embarrassing behavior of Iran's leader at Columbia U.; Awards; and Sam Browneback etc.
Just like many others I had a prior account. Just one though, and not 4 like the former chief agitator. Yes I have said nasty things about Clancy,and other than his two loyalists, and everyone that he provoked said they were well deserved.

Maybe you would like me to take a test on the movie frame by frame

Quite frankly I find your post quite insulting. This is not a private board or is your thread even private. It is public and if you do not like that Ribtickleuk go create a password encrypted blog.

I have no bone to pick with you, but you conveniently turned a blind eye as to who initially derailed the thread. Maybe I must question your very existence; I mean after all many folks here openly brag about multiple accounts. Do we really know you?

Good Day
RP

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by ribtickleuk   6 days ago (Mon Nov 5 2007 07:07:01)   


UPDATED Mon Nov 5 2007 07:10:37
Maybe you would like me to take a test on the movie frame by frame

I would like you to post about a frame, any frame, of the actual movie. At least once.

Instead of spending all your time attacking other posters, and in the most childish manner, in between accusing people (me now) of holding multiple accounts.

As things stand, and until I see any different, I will just mark you down as a troll.

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by RP_Mac_27   6 days ago (Mon Nov 5 2007 07:29:49)
   
   
Obviously you can not recognize when someone is making a statement for the purpose of accentuating a point of view. It is sort of like a form of sarcasm.
" Maybe I must question your very existence; I mean after all many folks here openly brag about multiple accounts. Do we really know you?
It is kind of like the old story;

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Now take this in an allegory context and stop being so damn literal.


If you want to align yourself with the little clique of bullies that have suddenly had the tables turned on them that is fine with me. However, I will stand on my own. I would have honored your request to post about the movie, but I am not beholden to you and until you learn that and how to properly approach people I will not dignify your posts.
Ok Bitch?

Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Katherine   
  by RP_Mac_27   6 days ago (Mon Nov 5 2007 07:33:10)
   

Oh and Katherine, peek-a-boo, you phony.


Re: Earl's karmic revenge -Ribtickleuk   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sun Nov 4 2007 19:45:09)   

   
Well after writing to you that I would honor your request, I see that you really do not want harmony, but rather you want to stoop into the fray.
Please tell me I am wrong and that was a juvenile slip on your part before you received my response.
RP

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by Shasta254   (Sun Nov 4 2007 19:00:07)   

   
I think ribtickleuk just wants the argument to continue -- if it must -- in its own thread. He could have asked more nicely, but is probably frustrated. Some people are trying to carry on a discussion that actually deals with "Brokeback Mountain", and it's difficult when people are fighting on the thread. I know I'm not contributing, but I do enjoy reading about Earl's karmic revenge--it's interesting. And it would be pleasant to read it without the fights and name-calling.

I wish that you who are fighting would put those you are fighting with on "ignore", but I know that's not going to happen. Even though we have had troll attacks from time to time, I don't know how this nice BBM board got so contentious, but I miss those who've left, I wish it would go back to the way it was before, and it would be nice if someone would be the first to STOP responding when another one pitches the bait.

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by RP_Mac_27   (Sun Nov 4 2007 19:37:39)   


OK Shasta,

The next bait tossed my way will be ignored. If so would you be so kind to say something in my defense when I ignore the silly; sick behavior and continue to contribute in a civil manner to general discussions which were happening briefly here for a while without such animosity.

One thing I ask though is not to fool yourself ever by stating "Even though we have had troll attacks from time to time, I don't know how this nice BBM board got so contentious, but I miss those who've left, I wish it would go back to the way it was before,"

Maybe the past might have been pleasant for you, but Clancy and his Hezzbolla went a little to far when they went beyond this board to taunt and ridicule people as well as long term regulars who dared to express their own opinion. Now is that really the type of behavior you long for again?

For me, I formulate my own opinions and I am sure that is not unique. But for someone to claim their opinion is the only way especially on a topic they have no experience in other than being a fan of the movie, which is far different from suffering from homosexual bigotry is just plain myopic and dare I say arrogant!

Be well Shasta.
Sincerely
RP

Re: Earl's karmic revenge   
  by ednakrabapley   (Sat Nov 3 2007 18:32:07)
   

Oh my God. I never heard anyone make that connection, and I never made it myself either. That is absolutely brilliant! I love the irony; it adds even more richness to an already poetic and layered movie.

www.jlodown.com
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Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40