Author Topic: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!  (Read 19252 times)

Offline Ray

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I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« on: May 17, 2006, 04:16:29 am »
I was just mopping the floor in preparation for my house guest and it occurred to me that Lureen, (the thoughts I have at the end of a cleaning utensil!), could have been saying that line, ("Ever notice how Cowboys never dance with blahblahblah...why do you think that is?") because she was on to the flirting going on at the table which didn't involve the women.  Is it possible that Jack immediately wisked LaTalk onto the dance floor to avoid further speculation that could pique the curiosity of the polite company? 

Thinking back further, when Lureen asks with such a sing-songy teasing voice about why Ennis never comes to Texas and Jack always has to drive seventeen hours blahblahblah. 

Fast forward now, (dizzy yet?), to the post "Deceased" phone call from Ennis when Lureen was so ice cold and seemingly rehersed in her response.  She only releases when she truly understands who Ennis is.  Do you think Lureen knew all along and she used that knowledge as an unspoken control mechanism.

Am I late to the party and this has been discussed before?
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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2006, 04:33:19 am »

You mopped??

That is so cute....  :-*
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Offline Kelda

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 05:09:59 am »
You mopped??

That is so cute....  :-*

ROFLMAO!!! heh.. good one Sheyne! *ducks from the rotten tomato being thrown at Sheyen by Ray*

Lureen was far more wordly aware than Alma Sr.. I mean she was in some alpha beta deta blah blah thing (sorry americans.. I don't get the whole sorority thing I'm afriad!) that in itself is evidence that she is more wordly wise..

I'd say she at least had an inciling.

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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 05:19:39 am »

Well, I agree Kelda.... not about the tomato thing... Ray would never throw tomatoes... not when he'd just mopped - I know him too well.. he'd be more likely to take me out into the hall of his apartment building and toss a cream pie onto my face...  ;D

But yeah, something in me says Lureen HAD to know but I'm kinda thinking if she DID she certainly didn't seem upset about it?!?!?  She always seemed to have this teasing voice which suggested she seemed more amused than anything else.  And then I wonder if she DID know cause when Ennis revealed himself to her on the phone at the end, she seemed quite distraught and upset..  Hmm....

Still think the mopping is SO gay and cute, Ray...  I'll be spot-checking with my gloves on Friday night, btw..  ;)
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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2006, 05:37:01 am »
I was just mopping the floor in preparation for my house guest and it occurred to me that Lureen, (the thoughts I have at the end of a cleaning utensil!), could have been saying that line, ("Ever notice how Cowboys never dance with blahblahblah...why do you think that is?") because she was on to the flirting going on at the table which didn't involve the women.  Is it possible that Jack immediately wisked LaTalk onto the dance floor to avoid further speculation that could pique the curiosity of the polite company? 

Thinking back further, when Lureen asks with such a sing-songy teasing voice about why Ennis never comes to Texas and Jack always has to drive seventeen hours blahblahblah. 

Fast forward now, (dizzy yet?), to the post "Deceased" phone call from Ennis when Lureen was so ice cold and seemingly rehersed in her response.  She only releases when she truly understands who Ennis is.  Do you think Lureen knew all along and she used that knowledge as an unspoken control mechanism.

Am I late to the party and this has been discussed before?
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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2006, 05:44:55 am »
This thread is hilarious!!

Quote
But yeah, something in me says Lureen HAD to know but I'm kinda thinking if she DID she certainly didn't seem upset about it?!?!?
That's what I thought from the very beginning.. She knew.. just in denial. In my eyes, she is an ice-cold (well, kind of), calculating woman. From the very first moment Lureen and Jack meet they hump.. in the back of the car, marry, get pregnant and then back to work. It's like Jack and Bobby aren't really interesting enough, but she needed to be married and a mother. The fact that she does react to Ennis I think is almost more a pride thing..

Ray, have you started the healing process yet?

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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2006, 05:46:42 am »
Quote
Still think the mopping is SO gay and cute, Ray... 
  :laugh:  ;D  :D

I think it's just Europe and Australia on this thread right now. America is still sleeping..

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Offline Kelda

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2006, 06:12:35 am »
But yeah, something in me says Lureen HAD to know but I'm kinda thinking if she DID she certainly didn't seem upset about it?!?!?  She always seemed to have this teasing voice which suggested she seemed more amused than anything else.  And then I wonder if she DID know cause when Ennis revealed himself to her on the phone at the end, she seemed quite distraught and upset..  Hmm....


I don't think she knew when she first met him, and cerainly she seemed happy to bag the man and the child so very quickly.

But I think that she worked it out at some point after the reunion, maybe after the 2nd fishing trip? That would be when Bobby was like a year and a half maybe?

By that time, she was engrossed in her work and didn't really care.. I see her as a bit of an Alexis Carrington character anyway (ceretainly not in the very beginning but she came to be that type of character).

I'm sure she was having it away just as much as Jack was....
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2006, 07:24:57 am »
  :laugh:  ;D  :D

I think it's just Europe and Australia on this thread right now. America is still sleeping..

~ j U d E

America wakes up!

Kelda, I believe she said she was a tri delt, which would be Delta Delta Delta, founded in 1888 at Boston University (I didn't know that!).

http://www.tridelta.org/about/our_founding.asp

As for Ray's other questions...too early in the morning for me to give that much concentrated thought to anything...
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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2006, 07:34:17 am »
America wakes up!
  Did I talk too loud?  ;D

Kelda, I believe she said she was a tri delt, which would be Delta Delta Delta, founded in 1888 at Boston University (I didn't know that!).

http://www.tridelta.org/about/our_founding.asp
Cool! I once worked at the Boston University for a summer job in 1994. That brings me yet another tiny bit closer to BBM! Love it!

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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2006, 07:39:20 am »
America wakes up!

Kelda, I believe she said she was a tri delt, which would be Delta Delta Delta, founded in 1888 at Boston University (I didn't know that!).

http://www.tridelta.org/about/our_founding.asp

As for Ray's other questions...too early in the morning for me to give that much concentrated thought to anything...

Actually, Leslie, I'm sure it was LaShawn who was the tri delt.. Lureen was a Kappa Phi????  Coulda been mistaken but that's my recollection from the dance scene...
Chut up!

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2006, 07:49:03 am »
Actually, Leslie, I'm sure it was LaShawn who was the tri delt.. Lureen was a Kappa Phi????  Coulda been mistaken but that's my recollection from the dance scene...

You are probably right. I just did this off the top of my head, didn't pull the DVD out of the reliquary for primary source documentation...like I said, America is just waking up. LOL
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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2006, 08:14:47 am »

*yawn*

And Australia is heading to bed...  :-*

Enjoy your day, beautiful people!  See you all in about 8 hours....
Chut up!

Offline chefjudy

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2006, 08:17:59 am »
 :) and some of us do sleep although it seems,  "never enough, never enough..........." :D
Judy


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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2006, 08:21:31 am »

LOL... sounds like you've got kids too, Judy?  :-\
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Offline chefjudy

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2006, 08:28:08 am »
 :) umm, no, kids are grown but I spend a lot of time reading this board and IMDb - I think I need to get a life!  lol..................... maybe this is my life??
Judy


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Offline Sheyne

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2006, 08:29:47 am »

Oh no... its a sweet life..  ;)

I divide my time between my boy (7 years old, smiles a lot), my computer and my class of kids at school...

Mine's a busy life!!  :D
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Offline YaadPyar

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2006, 08:49:55 am »

Lureen was far more wordly aware than Alma Sr.. I mean she was in some alpha beta deta blah blah thing. that in itself is evidence that she is more wordly wise..



To me, Lureen's sorority membership is very much social designatin, not academic ones.  Especially in Texas at the time Lureen would have been in school.  In a great twist of fate, my university degree is from Boston University (in Film, no less)!  By the time I attended, the whole Greek system had pretty much died there, except for the African American student body. 

But certainly Lureen was more worldly than Alma.  She was educated, came from money, had herself been on the rodeo circuit, and was clearly someone who had goals and dreams of her own.  We don't see any of that with Alma.

I don't get why everyone thinks Lureen is so awful.  I don't think she tricked Jack into marrying her out of calculated ambition.  How would that have benefited her in any way?  She was more worldly than Alma, but just really a spoiled and protected little girl who got in over her head reeally quickly when she met Jack.  And he did too when he met her.  They did what a lot of couples did...had sex, got pregnant, got married.  And then spent years just trying to make something work that never really did work since they were together for all the wrong reasons.


Fast forward now, (dizzy yet?), to the post "Deceased" phone call from Ennis when Lureen was so ice cold and seemingly rehersed in her response.  She only releases when she truly understands who Ennis is.  Do you think Lureen knew all along and she used that knowledge as an unspoken control mechanism.


I believe Lureen was desperate for the kind of attention and affection that brought her and Jack together in the first place.  She wanted a husband who would adore and dote on her as completely as her daddy did, and instead she was with a man who was by nature caring, but mostly indifferent, and who put his mysterious friends before her.  I think she was desperate for Jack's adoration, but too proud to say it, and too confused as to why it wasn't there to ever address her disappointment.

I don't know that she tried to control Jack - he didn't have trouble taking off to see Ennis, and left after Ennis's divorce with what seems like no planning, and then returned home with no obvious consequences to his marriage.  But a lot of that we don't really know.

I think Lureen teased Jack to see what he would say and how he would respond.  She used humor, even though not so funny, to try to understand how her man could be so uninterested.  I see women do this all the time.  Jokingly complain about their husbands to others in social settings, but what they are joking about is real pain, and they just need some small release and validation that what they're going through is real.

And I think she was so cold on the phone to Ennis in the realization that what she had always hoped was just her wrong-headed suspicions about Jack, were now confirmed to be a reality she didn't want to know about.  I think she loved Jack - he's a very lovable guy.  But her bitterness adn increasing hardness came from huge disappointment.  Everyone's heart broke in a different way.


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Offline maggiesmommy GayLee

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2006, 08:57:54 am »
just my imagination running away here, and HELL NO, i'm NOT mopping!!!! :-\  I have always thought that Laureen was a bit of a slut...i mean, cummon...she was doing the bone dance in the backseat with jack after a turn on the dance floor!! so. IMO she was used to shagging perfect strangers....i wonder if maybe she was already prego and was looking for a daddy for the baby?? she came on pretty strong....so our jack was vunerable, trying to fit the norm of the times and was just kinda swept up in it al, maybe even trying to forget ennis by going  180 the other way, maybe another man would have been too much of a reminderl...and, they (J & L) never really loved each other, he was the joke of their social circles, and i think just a means to an end for laureen..maybe she was having her own trists during the marriage, after the backseat "thing" she never seems really interested in jack....?? like i said...just musing..but will be late if i don't get going....
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2006, 09:16:54 am »
I've suspected that Lureen's marrying Jack was an act of defiance against her father. Yes, she was "Daddy's girl," but that sort of thing cuts two ways emotionally. Her father was certainly a controlling person (she has to have the car back by midnight--remember that line?). But she's been to college, where she was a sorority girl, and she comes from a prominent family with money, and girls from that sort of situation in the mid-1960s just didn't marry dirt-poor rodeo cowboys who didn't have two nickels to rub together.

This is also why I've assumed we are supposed to believe that she got pregnant in the back seat of that car that night. It's 1966, seven years before Roe v. Wade made abortion legal in the U.S. While it's probably true that families with money always had "options" for daughters who "got in trouble," Childress, in the Texas panhandle, is more or less the buckle of the Bible Belt, I believe, so that an illegal abortion was probably not an option. That leaves a "shotgun marriage."

Pregnancy followed by a shotgun wedding would account for why L.D. Newsome dislikes his son-in-law so much, in addition to the fact that Jack is dirt poor and not successful. It's also the only way I really buy the marriage. I'm not convinced Lureen could have sweet-talked her father into letting her marry Jack just because she wanted him.
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Offline maggiesmommy GayLee

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2006, 10:29:02 am »

let me add a post preface, if you will...
I was a senior in high school in 1963. (oh, lord, i'm so old) i know the mindset...there were the girls who slept with anyone and everyone...they were the "class punchs" very popular with the football team...we considered then pretty low class, but they always had a DATE!!  the rest of us were pretty tame by today's comaprison..i am from Kansas, also in the bible belt...and yes, aobrtion was legal...but let me tell you, if Laureen's dad was ANYTHING like mine..he would have knocked me six ways from sunday if i had gotten pg, to say nothing of needing an abortion...you barley SAID the word!!..back then you were afraid your parents were gonna "kill"
 you if you deviated with the strict moral code of that region and time..you would have been kicked out of church, out of high school, probably out of your house...just because abortion was legal didn't mean everyone was getting them..back then they were akin to suicide...my dad told me what race i could date (only MINE, of course) what religion (MINE, of course) what social class (MINE of course)...and on and on...it was a time of extreme prejudice...the race riots were going on her in the US and everyone that was in the colset was staying there...
so with this perspective I see it this way:
Laureen was indeed a spoiled little rich girl..but she was a trampy rich girl...she got it on in the backseat of cars with perfect strangers!! that was NOT done by NICE girls in the 60's...i think she wanted jack because he was safe...gave her an appearance of being the all amercian 60"s girl vision of life... get married and have babies...if you weren't married...well....back then in most circles you were laughed at behind your back if you were an unmarried old maid at 23 or 24...couple that with trying to meet her fathers expectations and i assume by the little we know about him that they were very high... keeping up appearences was vbery important in his class and social circle back then...and maybe she saw in jack as someone her father WOULD disapprove of and chose him to tick her father off, but he couldn't control this because of the pregnancy...it was either have an unwed daughter or put up with jack...just IMO, but i believe the father could tell that jack was "different", the gay radar was pretty strong then...and the word gay wasn't used much as i remember..it wa pretty hateful words that were used...so, he knew something was up, at least he thought jack was someone to be ridiculed and laughed at...hell, the whole town probably felt the same way..there was certainly disdane in the eyse of the father and his cronies...i still wonder if he had finally had enough ribbing about hs son-in-law (and i KNOW that he got it) and had the deed done himself....
anyway...Laureen wanted a marriage of convenience and she got it...she probably didn' t even have to have a "headache" very often, cuz jack probably lost interest in her sexually pretty early on.....
SO....that is my take on the 60's  and Jack and his marriage and i really think Laureen was a pretty tacky little texas tramp. birth contolw wasn't easiy to come by back then either, (even if she had had the brains to use it),so the way she was behaving she could have gotten pregnant by anyone at any time... and not even know who it was...she just and found a SAFE scapegoat...and married him..
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Offline Kd5000

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2006, 10:32:09 am »
Well I just thought that Lureen probably moved in a higher tier social orbit and learned how to dance. Dancing wasn't probably too big in Jack's adolescene. He was more into learning how to rodeo, not dance.  Hangin out at "honky-tonks" where you drink, but certainly don't dance.

Soriety life at SMU?? Good lord, the South's social registrey school. You bet she knew how to dance before she got into the soriety. 

Don't alot of women say that about husbands not wanting to dance with their wives. I mean, when there is  courtin' to be done, the husband to be is usually quite socially engaging.

The shotgun is a good thought.  I can't imagine any other reason for there marriage.  The father could always threaten her with a cutoff is she marries "Rodeo," but if pregnancy is involved, that's a different equation.

And I really think Lureen would be in denial about her husband's sexual orientation as she's already disappointed in her latter years with Jack and has put her energy into running the business.  To think I married a gay guy would be too much.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2006, 10:40:06 am »
Ray is that why u wear a mop on yr head, so yll have more of "those thoughts"? Then, don't take it off, cause I think u are right on! While reading yr post and the replies, I remembered vividly the look Lureen gives Jack right after he says, "Fast or slow..." and it could have meant "Yippee, here's a father for my unborn child" like Gay suggests or "Here's a guy who will go along with my agenda" or something like that. And I agree, she was always rather cold and self-absorbed. So in the phone conversation at the end, she was just business as usual (Hello...hello...who is this.") a little like Ennis himself is, but then when Ennis himself is honest and forthcoming for a change it's unnerving to her cause she has always hid this knowledge under her hat, even from herself, and here this guy is phoning her up and lifting up the hat so to speak. So, yes, I agree w/you and now I have to go throw the CD on again and look at it in a whole new light!
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2006, 10:52:55 am »
Ooh.  I'll jump into the pool hip-deep.

Here's what always confounds me just a little.  First of all, I agree with you, Ray, that Lureen is certainly onto something when she says "Huuusbands...  Don't never seem to wanna dance with their wives.  Why do ya think that is, Jack?"  And yes, I think Jack knows she's onto something and so whisks LaShawn away from the table, not to playfully spite his wife, but to distract her from what she may be getting more and more onto.

Back to what confounds me (yes, I remember!)  When Ennis first calls her and says "This is Ennis Del Mar," she doesn't quite have the true recognition of what he meant to Jack yet.  She says, "You're that hunting buddy, or fishin' buddy, I know that.  I'da called ya to tell you what happened, but Jack kept his friends' addresses in his head."  So there, she's lumping him in with any of Jack's other friends.  THEN, he says, "Me an' Jack - we herded sheep up on Brokeback Mountain in the summer of '63."  RIGHT THERE.  That's when she knows.  Because Jack said it was his "favorite place."  She thought it was maybe make-believe, or a place to go drink.  After all, Jack drank a lot...  Right there is where she puts 2 and 2 together.

So does it follow that she always suspected it was a man and not a woman he loved more than he could ever possibly love her?  In a way, yes, I think so.  Otherwise that epiphany wouldn't have come so swiftly.  It only took a moment for it all to click.  I guess I picture her always feeling Jack's indifference and wondering is it me, or is there someone else?  When you start to think of the possibility of someone else, you start to watch your husband's interactions with women very closely.  Is it her?  Is it her?  Is it someone like her?  I think of Lureen watching this and realizing that Jack doesn't seem to show the least bit of interest in other women.  But he talks about that Brokeback Mountain all the time.  How he spent the best summer of his life there once.  How he wishes he could get back up there someday.  All the time.  He goes on all those fishing trips, but he never goes to Brokeback when he does.  Or so he says.  Hmmmmmmm...  And I can see him never mentioning Ennis by name to Lureen, because let's face it, you don't do that when you're in love with that person.  You're afraid your face or voice will betray you when you say his or her name.  So you don't.  Hence her not putting the pieces together yet just from Ennis saying, "This is Ennis Del Mar."  But he mentions that mountain, and BLAMMO.

I love Lureen.  I think she adored Jack and it broke her heart that she could never have him the way she wanted, similarly to how he could never have Ennis the way he wanted.  We know she loves him by that comisserating look when L.D. says Bobby is the spittin' image of his grandpa and by the little smile when he finally stands up to the son of a bitch.  I think Jack very simply married her for her money because he was tired of being dirt poor and because he didn't want to keep being vulnerable to the Aguirres and Jimbos of the world - he thought marrying her could save him from both of those fates.  But she married him because she loved him the moment she laid eyes on him.  Hell.  Who wouldn't?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 10:55:58 am by ednbarby »
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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2006, 10:57:59 am »
Quote
Here's what always confounds me just a little.  First of all, I agree with you, Ray, that Lureen is certainly onto something when she says "Huuusbands...  Don't never seem to wanna dance with their wives.  Why do ya think that is, Jack?"  And yes, I think Jack knows she's onto something and so whisks LaShawn away from the table, not to playfully spite his wife, but to distract her from what she may be getting more and more onto.
I have to watch that scene again!! I think, you are all right. I too, think Lureen 'knew' something.. At that point, she could even have considered 'warning' LaShawn about Randall... hmm.. But I guess that was out of the question  :-X

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Offline maggiesmommy GayLee

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2006, 11:13:59 am »
I wonder if "dance with their wives" was really code for have sex with....

and sorry, they did not love each other....they BOTH knew that, and were ok with it...they just resolved to have a marriage of convenience, it worked for both of them and they just kept up pretenses, each for their own reasons...this is not critical of wither of them, just the way it was...you can see in Jack's eyes the haunted look of a man who DOES NOT "love the one he is with"...
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Offline Ray

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2006, 11:24:22 am »
Quote
and sorry, they did not love each other....

I think they had A love for one another.  Jack still kissed his wife goodbye, and on the lips where as Ennis pretty gave up kissing Alma as soon as Jack reappeared after four years.



Ray, have you started the healing process yet?

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I'll always be in the healing process for something Jude, but to what are you refering to in this instance?  :-\
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2006, 11:29:18 am »
Oh, yeah, "dance with their wives" is definitely code for "have sex with." Or so I read it.

BTW, maggiesmommy, thanks for your earlier post about being a young girl in the Bible belt in the '60s. Being a boy from the Northeast, I appreciate your confirmation that my understanding of Lureen's social situation is pretty much accurate.

Barb, as usual that was one of your wonderful, thoughtful, insightful posts. I've felt the same way as you about that dawn of recognition for Lureen when she finds out that Brokeback Mountain really is a "real" place.

Now, I've got to get back to work!!!!
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2006, 11:30:19 am »
Something else that strikes me in regards to this - when Jack tells Ennis that Lureen's great at making hard business deals, but that where their marriage is concerned, they might as well do it over the phone, he's seeming to imply (and probably meaning to) that that's more her fault than his.  But we of course know better.
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Offline maggiesmommy GayLee

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2006, 12:34:20 pm »
i agree with that, Ray,,I would call it mutual need...only they knew about their situation and that gave them something private between themselves, which can lead to a certain "connection" between two people, plus the child that they shared...but love in the truest sense...no....
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Offline Kd5000

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2006, 12:52:22 pm »
Maybe she found his initial shyness, "what are you waiting for cowboy, a mating call" a novelty.  He's so sweet for a cowboy, isn't an "animal" at all. 

The only time they are shown being intimidate is when she is taking off her clothes faster then he is in the back seat.  Jack is just going along for the "ride."  It's hard to turn "money" down when it's being handed to you and you have nuthin, made $2,000 in a year, nearly starved, paraphrasing Mr. Twist. 

However in this social scenario at the dance, she has to revert back to more traditional roles, waiting for her husband to invite her to dance.  Looks tacky in front of Randall and his wife for Lureen to say "get up Cowboy, let go dancing."

Why didn't you think she ever asked for a divorce ??? I mean in the early 1980's, it was more socially acceptable to get divorced then say the early 1960's.   What was she getting out of the relationship?  Was Jack playing MR MOM and jr business partner as salesman? It seems that way.. The only inconvenience was when he took off for a weeks to go away to the Big Horns with his hunting/fishin buddy and she kept him on a short leash as well, wanted him back in a week or say to do the combo ag sales.   

I wonder how many "friends" Jack had that he kept in his head.  Was she that detached from his life that she never wanted to meet them.  Certainly, she knew Randall.  :)  Of course, I presume Lureen might have thought her husband suffered from impotency after the intial "honeymoon" and just accepted it. Don't know how common it was back then for women to suspect that "I think he might be gay" thing. It seems much more so nowadays, not as farfetched as it was back then.   

Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2006, 01:02:58 pm »
I can see Lureen not asking for a divorce (and that's only as far as we know) for a few reasons:

1. To have a husband who is kind to you, takes care of your son so you can work, takes you out now and again and helps you entertain at home, doesn't give you any headaches other than losing a parka here or there or disappearing for a week or two at a time a couple times a year, not to mention handsome and charming, would be a blessing to many women, in spite of the lack of interest in having sex regularly with you.

2.  She didn't want to look like a failure in her social circle.  Divorce still wasn't all that common in the early 80s, though it was starting to be.

3.  She loved him.  And being with the man she loved even though she suspected or knew he didn't love her back was better to her than being alone.
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Offline YaadPyar

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2006, 01:20:46 pm »
Great thread Ray - thanks for getting it started.  I'm not sure I understand all the hostility toward Lureen.  She is not someone who tried to rope a gay man into an unsatisfactory marriage, and then kept him twisting away there for her own amusement.  And maybe her daddy had money, but she and her family were just a product of their world and times like Alma and Ennis and Jack.

Why is Lureen a villian?  I can only see her as hardened and disappointed.  When she is young, she is exhuberant, full of all the promise of being brought up indulged and certain that you're a princess.  And when reality hits, she seems to makes the best of what she can.  Her daddy hates Jack, but she sticks with him.  Nothing in the movie indicates that she chose Jack to teach her Dad a lesson; she and Daddy seem farily devoted to each other.  But she stays with him, even as the reality of all he'll never be unfolds in their relationship.  Jack himself never speaks ill of her or complains.  He's just sort of detached about who she becomes, which he's had a huge part in creating.

I can't really buy that she's a 'slut', which seems always a word that's used as a weapon against women.  I think she's just used to indulging her pleasures as she wishes, without considering the potential consequences.  She and Jack are young, and lots of young folks (and not so young) fall into that trap all the time.

Neither Alma nor Lureen are deeply insightful women, and they bring very typical and traditional expectations to marriage.  And it's as it should be, or they would never be able to sustain relationships with men who are so deeply ambivalent about their marriages.  If I had seen my husband kiss another (especially a man), I could not leave it be to some place of painful silence.  Another kind of woman wouldn't be able to survive in such a marriage, and indeed, even Alma can't.

But I don't see how any of that makes Lureen a villian.  Jack was an equal part of their marriage, and Ennis part of his.  We don't get to make one of the characters a villian and another a hero here, and I think that's what Annie Proulx did so beautifully in this story - show us that Brokeback Mountain broke EVERYONE.  That Jack and Ennis couldn't find a way to be together is tragic.  But it wasn't Alma or Lureen who kept that from happening.  It was fear.  That's the tragedy...what fear destroys, not what Lureen Newsome did to Jack, but what fear did to Ennis before Jack ever met her...

"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline Lumière

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2006, 01:21:15 pm »
Re: Lureen divorcing Jack:

There are 2 people who would've been more interested in the divorce than Lureen: Jack and LD Newsome.
Lureen was a Southern woman who would've cared alot about keeping up appearances in her social circles.
I mean, being married to Jack was probably not that bad, inspite of his fishing trips with his best buddy, his drinking and his little interest in sex with her.. :-\.  That said, I think that even if Lureen knew about Jack's 'escapades', she probably went along with it because he didn't rub it in her face and never asked her for a divorce or left her for that matter.
Ennis' call on that fateful day was what took the wool out of her eyes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 05:17:45 pm by Lucise »


Offline Meryl

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2006, 01:29:31 pm »
Great discussion, Ray, and Celeste, I agree with your many well-made points.

I think above all that Jack and Lureen were good friends.  They made a life together, worked together and supported each other.  Maybe passion wasn't in it, but there was real regard and loyalty there nonetheless.

No one so far has addressed the Accident/Murder question.  If it was murder, it was possible Lureen already knew about Jack's homosexuality, since it might have come out that it was a gay bashing.  Perhaps she hadn't yet put two and two together about the fishin' buddy until Ennis mentioned Brokeback, though.  What I love about this scene is how many different interpretations it can take and still make sense.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2006, 01:43:27 pm »
I'm not sure I agree that Jack was indifferent to Lureen. He seems to show her affection. I think of the Thanksgiving scene. He backs her up when she tells Bobby to eat his dinner. He certainly didn't have to. He touches her on the shoulder as he walks by. Jack is certainly invested in his family as shown by his concern for Bobby's educational needs. He seemed bitter when he talks about Lureen and her adding machines and when he said "as far as our marriage is concerned, we could do it over the phone." It seems like Lureen checked out before Jack did. In the film, Jack certainly gave her more affection than she did to him.

That's not to say that she didn't know what was up with Jack. While he did show affection, it may not have been enough, or it certainly wasn't the right kind of attention.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2006, 01:43:48 pm »
I would be inclined to think that the hostility toward Lureen goes back to the original Annie Proulx story--I think she comes off worse there than in the film--except that I also have the feeling that many people who have never read the story and have only seen the film dislike her intensely. Ultimately I can't really account for it.

It's heartbreaking to watch Lureen change--I'm tempted to say deteriorate--from the natural, exuberant young girl of the day she meets Jack to the overly made-up woman of the phone conversation with Ennis. To me she looks an absolute fright at that charity dinner-dance.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2006, 02:00:57 pm »
kept him twisting away there

Ha ha -- good one, Celeste!

IMO, Lureen is not cold, calculating or manipulative. She saw Jack, understandably found him attractive, and went for it. That's what people are SUPPOSED to do, right? She may come on a little strong -- as does Cassie, later; neither of these women would have snared their cowboys any other way -- but that's OK. And she probably was rebelling a bit against her overbearing Daddy (evidence: first-date sex in the backseat of his car and, later, her smirk when Jack tells LD off on Thanksgiving). And she quite possibly was pregnant before the wedding. But none of those actions are particularly evil.

Jack, for his part, did not have an eye for Lureen. He grabbed her hat from the ground just to be polite (hmmm -- an echo of the times Ennis knocks Jack's hat off?), and probably would have ignored her forever if she hadn't made the first move. But she does, and he goes along with it much the same way Ennis later goes along with Cassie. Also,  I think for Jack "money's a good point" -- the fact that Lureen's rich, while he's "nearly starving," is part of her allure. And he's probably sick of getting rejected by the Jimbos of the world. So eventually he just shrugs and decides he might as well get married, possibly with the further incentive of a pregnancy.

You know, I just noticed that her name is Lureen -- get it? She lures him. (Is there a parallel meaning for Cassie? She casts her line for Ennis? Well, maybe that's reaching.)

Anyway, Lureen and Jack have a good relationship platonically (better than Ennis' and Alma's, for sure). But over the years Lureen notices things. Jack is not the most passionate husband. He constantly goes off on fishing trips with his friend, for which he's willing to unilaterally drive 14 hours. He doesn't understand why women would get gussied up "just to go to bed" (nothin going on there!). She gets increasingly frustrated, keeps dying her hair blonder and blonder, as women in those days were commonly advised to do when their marriages were losing their zing. Eventually, Lureen puts 2 and 2 together. Maybe she doesn't quite get to 4, but let's say she's at 3 by the time of the dance. Her dancing comment may be a reference to Jack's sexuality, but if so it's a half-conscious one. She doesn't divorce him because she loves Jack, frustrated though she is.

Then the phone call from Ennis. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Jack is murdered. By then she's at 4 -- she knows about his sexuality outright, either simply because of the murder or because it has become obvious in some other way to both the murderers and Lureen. That's why she sounds so rehearsed when describing the accident. Then, when Ennis confirms that Brokeback is a real place and mentions them herding together 20 years earlier, Lureen squeaks because by now she understands the nature of their relationship and realizes that Jack has been with Ennis since long before their marriage. Maybe to her, Brokeback stands for Jack's fantasy life, and Ennis' saying that Brokeback is a real place opens her eyes -- in other words, he really DID have relationships with other men. Ennis's final "we was good friends," another confirmation, causes another squeak and tears to well in her eyes.

And yet, despite all that, she advises Ennis to get in touch with Jack's folks. And says they'd like it if his wishes was granted -- "bout the ashes, I mean" (as opposed to his wishes about how he wanted to live his life). That was out-and-out kind of her, both knowingly (helping Ennis grieve) and unwittingly (leading Ennis to the shirts).











Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2006, 02:05:42 pm »
I agree, Katherine.  I think her suggesting to Ennis that he get in touch with Jack's folks is not only out-and-out kind of her, but proof that she loved Jack deeply.  And I think that they did both love each other, albeit platonically.  Certainly moreso than Ennis and Alma ever did.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2006, 02:15:58 pm »
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention in Lureen's favor: for a wife who's frustrated and suspicious, she certainly keeps Jack on a pretty long leash!

Offline Kd5000

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2006, 02:19:12 pm »
I'm not saying Lureen is a villian. The more times I've seen BBM, the more times I understand her. Good point about dying your hair blonder to put some spice in the marriage.  They used to advise women to wear more RED to spice up a marriage. I don't think that's going to anything for Jack, though.  :)

Offline starboardlight

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2006, 02:20:13 pm »
My take on Lureen is that she's a female version of that distant husband/father stereotype that we see common in the 50's-80's. It doesn't surprise us when we see in film and tv, a depiction of a husband and father who's energy is spent at the firm and has little left for his family. Even the Incredibles played on this in the beginning. For me, right from the beginning, Lureen's character is a commentary on the macho male stereotype. She's the sexually aggressive cowboy at the start and the burned out "husband" at the end. Like many fathers of that time, she didn't take part in her child's education. She's the one that ran the family business. She played out many of the commonly thought to be male roles as well as male short comings.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline starboardlight

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2006, 02:22:52 pm »
btw. does anyone imagine that while Jack was away, or even when he was around, Lureen didn't herself "dance" with other men?
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2006, 02:28:06 pm »
My take on Lureen is that she's a female version of that distant husband/father stereotype that we see common in the 50's-80's. It doesn't surprise us when we see in film and tv, a depiction of a husband and father who's energy is spent at the firm and has little left for his family. Even the Incredibles played on this in the beginning. For me, right from the beginning, Lureen's character is a commentary on the macho male stereotype. She's the sexually aggressive cowboy at the start and the burned out "husband" at the end. Like many fathers of that time, she didn't take part in her child's education. She's the one that ran the family business. She played out many of the commonly thought to be male roles as well as male short comings.

What an interesting take, Nipith!  It's something I've kind of had an inkling of, too, but hadn't thought out so eloquently.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2006, 02:49:32 pm »
What an interesting take, Nipith!  It's something I've kind of had an inkling of, too, but hadn't thought out so eloquently.

That is a very interesting take!

"Frustrated and suspicious"--or emotionally checked out/worn out? I don't know. Does she let Jack have a long leash because she's finding her fulfillment in the business and just doesn't care anymore, as long as he doesn't do anything blatant and embarass her publicly--like start crusing men around Childress?

And that "powder their noses to go home to bed" line. I always thought that line was a little silly myself. It's like, "Jack! Dude! You've been married how long and you don't know that's what women say when they go to the bathroom?" At least--that's what women in the movies say when they go to the bathroom. . . .  :D
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Offline southendmd

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2006, 03:19:57 pm »
I love this thread, you guys.

Lureen as "she who lures"! She's definitely the aggressor here; I guess that makes Jack the trophy husband. If you think about it, both get some of what they want: 

     Jack gets financial stability, and a not-very-demanding wife, and a long leash to visit Wyoming and Mexico. Also the ability to leave, on short notice, if necessary.

     Lureen gets the trophy husband, albeit a "pissant", a baby, and the opportunity to "wear the pants" and run the family  business.

Both have to compromise, however.  I think there is basic affection/respect.  But the passion goes elsewhere: Jack's to Ennis, or the hope of Ennis; Lureen's gets sublimated into her work. Her passion turns into "looking for extra zeros". It's true both Jack and Lureen suffered disappointment, and found a way to "stand it".

I agree that Lureen knew something about Jack, maybe not consciously.  She knew he was a dreamer: in the phone call, she says, "knowing Jack, BBM could just be a pretend place..." 

I love those little squeaks of recognition, very subtle, when Ennis says "no, ma'am... we was herding sheep..." and later "we was good friends".

By the way, Cassie, another aggressive woman, makes me think of "Cassandra" in Greek myth: "she who entangles men" is how she is described. She had the gift/curse of making predictions of the future that no one believed.

Offline Meryl

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2006, 03:43:34 pm »
Quote
By the way, Cassie, another aggressive woman, makes me think of "Cassandra" in Greek myth: "she who entangles men" is how she is described. She had the gift/curse of making predictions of the future that no one believed.

Funny you should say that, southendmd!  I just spent the last half hour looking up references to Cassandra (prompted by Katherine's post about her name suggesting "casting"), primarily because Ennis has been compared to the Trojan hero Aeneas in other discussions.  At least one source I checked out described them as having been lovers, but I don't know if that is the case in the Aeneid.  Sounds like it's worth pursuing.  8)
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Offline henrypie

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2006, 03:58:27 pm »
I quote Celeste:

Everyone's heart broke in a different way.

Beautiful; very Tolstoy.


Maybe Lureen had a buddy of her own whom she telephoned up as soon as Jack was out of the driveway for a fourteen-hour drive.  Hell, she could get a lot done in Jack's driving time alone.  Good reason for the long leash!

Offline YaadPyar

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2006, 04:16:09 pm »

IMO, Lureen is not cold, calculating or manipulative. She saw Jack, understandably found him attractive, and went for it. That's what people are SUPPOSED to do, right? She may come on a little strong -- as does Cassie, later; neither of these women would have snared their cowboys any other way -- but that's OK. And she probably was rebelling a bit against her overbearing Daddy (evidence: first-date sex in the backseat of his car and, later, her smirk when Jack tells LD off on Thanksgiving). And she quite possibly was pregnant before the wedding. But none of those actions are particularly evil....


I won't quote the whole thing, but resonate with all you wrote Katherine.
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2006, 04:20:50 pm »
I won't quote the whole thing, but resonate with all you wrote Katherine.

Thanks, Celeste! Actually, my post originally started by saying that I felt yours was the opinion that most closely matched mine. (I cut that sentence only because several more posts appeared while I was writing my tome, and I didn't have time to check them for possible agreement before posting my own.)

Offline Kd5000

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2006, 04:29:35 pm »
I wonder if the leash would have gotten longer as Bobbie got older, 16, 17, able to take care of himself.  A primary responsiblity of Jack seems to takin care of the kid as Lureen is the "pants," a self absorbed business person.  He could have been gone all during July to be with Ennis or Randall or whoever if he had lived past 39.  Just take the cellphone with you in case I need to reach you. I don't know how popular cell phones were in say 1990.  :)

Offline starboardlight

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2006, 06:07:01 pm »
I wonder if the leash would have gotten longer as Bobbie got older, 16, 17, able to take care of himself.  A primary responsiblity of Jack seems to takin care of the kid as Lureen is the "pants," a self absorbed business person.  He could have been gone all during July to be with Ennis or Randall or whoever if he had lived past 39.  Just take the cellphone with you in case I need to reach you. I don't know how popular cell phones were in say 1990.  :)

as a well off business man, Jack would have had a cell phone. His propensity for showing off would have made sure he got one. They'd have been huge to match his ring and his pornstache.  ;D
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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2006, 06:20:32 pm »
As far as I can remember only the military and rescue workers used cell phones back in those days and they were big and heavy. Also no relay towers or ground networks, only satellites. Coverage in rural areas was sparse.

As far as Lureen being a villain, I say no...and yes. To me, she represented the millions of women who use gay men for whatever they need. My mother-in-law always had her hair done by a gay man but she never had a kind word for them. Then, when these men are in trouble and need, where are these women? Silent and far away. Self-absorbed. Punching zeros into an adding machine. Lureen represents the vast uncaring society of men and women who look the other way when their needs have been met. So, I guess I am not feeling charitable about Lureen (ducks, runs for cover)  :-\
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2006, 07:09:04 pm »
Then, when these men are in trouble and need, where are these women? Silent and far away. Self-absorbed.

So wait. You're saying Jack was in trouble and needed Lureen, but SHE was too involved in other things to pay attention to HIM?!

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2007, 08:25:14 pm »
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Sorry it took me 120 days to get back to you on this, Katherine. I've been, uh, preoccupied.

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2007, 09:25:43 pm »
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Sorry it took me 120 days to get back to you on this, Katherine. I've been, uh, preoccupied.

 :laugh: That's OK, F-R! Didn't we arm wrestle about this issue over lunch and resolve the debate once and for all?  :laugh:

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2007, 01:04:23 pm »
Ray, it's HUSBANDS don't like to dance with their wives!! Ray? Ray?

I had a snappy reply to this topic in my sleep...now if I can just recall it!!
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2007, 02:50:30 am »

When Ennis first calls her and says "This is Ennis Del Mar," she doesn't quite have the true recognition of what he meant to Jack yet.  She says, "You're that hunting buddy, or fishin' buddy, I know that.  I'da called ya to tell you what happened, but Jack kept his friends' addresses in his head."  So there, she's lumping him in with any of Jack's other friends.  THEN, he says, "Me an' Jack - we herded sheep up on Brokeback Mountain in the summer of '63."  RIGHT THERE.  That's when she knows.  Because Jack said it was his "favorite place."  She thought it was maybe make-believe, or a place to go drink.  After all, Jack drank a lot...  Right there is where she puts 2 and 2 together.



My first time to read this great thread.  Barb, you put your long first post SO well, thank you.  You're right, Lureen knows that Brokeback got Jack good.  And once she knows that Ennis was part of the Brokeback experience, it all fits together.  Really great post.


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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2007, 08:13:06 pm »
Simple:

If they are named Jack and Ennis they're too busy dancin with each other!
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Offline Br. Patrick

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2007, 05:30:58 am »
"It's funny, ain't it?  Husbands don't never seem to dance with their wives."
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 06:34:05 am by Br. Patrick »
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Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2007, 03:41:23 pm »
as a well off business man, Jack would have had a cell phone. His propensity for showing off would have made sure he got one. They'd have been huge to match his ring and his pornstache.  ;D

An amusing side note on this question - Childress wouldn't have been set up for wireless until the late 1980s at the earliest due to its rural location and license awarding procedure.  He would have passed away before then, but urban areas did have a precursor to cellular phones with VHF-based mobile phones (rotary dial).  They were obscenely expensive and anyone with a scanner radio could listen in on all of your conversations.  Childress wouldn't have had that either.  It seems clear the Twist family would have had personal computers in the house by then, however.

It seems questionable whether Ennis ever had a phone.  His call to Texas was at the pay phone, and not once was their any indication either one of them reached out and touched each other through the Bell System (rates are lower after 9pm!).
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2007, 04:04:09 pm »
An amusing side note on this question - Childress wouldn't have been set up for wireless until the late 1980s at the earliest due to its rural location and license awarding procedure.  He would have passed away before then, but urban areas did have a precursor to cellular phones with VHF-based mobile phones (rotary dial).  They were obscenely expensive and anyone with a scanner radio could listen in on all of your conversations.  Childress wouldn't have had that either.  It seems clear the Twist family would have had personal computers in the house by then, however.
It seems questionable whether Ennis ever had a phone.  His call to Texas was at the pay phone, and not once was their any indication either one of them reached out and touched each other through the Bell System (rates are lower after 9pm!).

Lord have mercy, who could ever forget those 1980's computers?

The very first computer I bought was a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A. It was a "color computer" and it hooked up to a television. It had a tape drive which was actually just a tape recorder. It had 16K memory in it and no hard drive. I paid $400 for it at Target, and a year later I bought a Laser (IBM) XT computer. It had two disk drives on the front and it ran at
8 MHZ and 10MHZ. I bought it at Sears, and a few weeks later I bought a hard drive for it (you needed the hard drive for the computer to run at 10 MHZ). It was a 40 mb hard drive. It was very complicated to install because I had to flip all these little red switches on the back of the computer and then partition the hard drive. DOS couldn't recognize anything above 30 mb. I partitioned it as a 30/10. It was an internal hard drive (they sold external hard drives too) so I had to open up the computer to install it. It was a nightmare but I finally got the whole thing up and running.

The 1980's really wasn't all that long ago. It's amazing how fast the technology has changed in such a short period of time.
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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2007, 07:23:59 pm »
I was thinkin (being like Alma Jr.) today about this line, and I realized that Lureen's jab at Jack probably reminded him very much of his father. His answer was a classic way to defang the attack without ignoring it completely. "Ain't never give it no thought." Even the way Lureen says it, "Husbands...don't never want to dance with their wives." I think she is deliberately putting on a rural Wyoming accent too. Jack is realizing that he's married to a person like his father, which is what abused children often do. They select their mates in order to try to work through the unresolved problems once and for all, but they end up just caught up in childhood family disfunctions again.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: I just realised why Cowboys don't dance with their wives!
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2008, 11:18:30 am »
I think I actually had a dream about this topic last night... or something... because it's very much on my mind this morning.

Sorry if what I'm about to say has been said before.  This comment by Lureen about husbands not wanting to dance with their wives seems just so ironic (and actually a possible "bookend" moment) when thinking about how Lureen and Jack met.  The fact that by the end, Jack is refusing to dance with her... is such a contrast to the lovely slow dance that they have at the beginning.  I mean, clearly, when the camera zooms in on Jack's face during that early dance, his wistful, sad face implies that he's unhappy (and probably thinking about Ennis).  But, still, at this point, he's willing to dance with her... and in a way that she probably perceived to be romantic.

Really, I don't know why this topic was so much on my mind this morning.  I guess it's just a symptom of being a Brokie.
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