Author Topic: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age  (Read 18516 times)

Offline Wayne

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Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« on: January 04, 2008, 07:33:46 pm »
Can I be a little bit creepy?    :-\

I think the notion of hell - fire and brimstone - emerged from the literal experience of seeing bodies decay.    :P  They seem to be burning with a fire from within, and they smell like brimstone -- sulfur, or actually hydrogen sulfide.

The ancient Hebrew word that we translate as Hell was Gehenna, which was just the name of the literal place outside of town where they dumped bodies.

So hell, fire, and brimstone is not a special condemnation. It's just what happens as bodies decay. People wanted to escape that by being granted eternal life. They sought lots of routes.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 06:21:06 pm by wdj »
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Offline Wayne

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 07:35:16 pm »
Here is a photo of the actual location of Gehenna, the word that gets translated as "hell."

So this is the location - Gehenna - that they were talking about in the Bible when they said hell.

This chasm is what the word hell refers to. To go to hell means to be tossed into this gully.

Doesn't look all that bad ...    :-\

When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 07:35:46 pm »
Of course, the implication of being tossed in this gully is that nobody was taking care of your dead body.

If somebody cared about you, they would instead have put your body in an enclosed tomb for a year to decay. After a year they would come back and gather up your bones and put them in an ossuary. The tomb could then be used again later for another friend or family member.

So in that sense, "go to hell" means not "die and be punished," but "die and be forgotten."
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

injest

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 07:53:56 pm »
isn't that the worst fear a lot of people have? that they would die and no one will care? I think about that a lot....whether anyone would really care if I were gone.

sure my husband would (who would cook dinner?) but really what difference do I make?

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 08:07:46 pm »
One of the more common epithaphs I have seen in old cemeteries: "Gone But Not Forgotton". I once saw that on a stone that the top half, and the name of the deceased, was missing.

This is very interesting Wayne, so a visitor to the Holy Land can literally go to hell.

Ye shall know the truth, its name is Metaphor.
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Offline Wayne

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 08:33:25 pm »
Yeah it's funny - we often think of problems with people taking the Bible too literally.

But in this case there is this mindset about the afterlife that is completely confused because we fail to recognize the literal meaning.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Eschatology
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 09:49:22 pm »
isn't that the worst fear a lot of people have? that they would die and no one will care? I think about that a lot....whether anyone would really care if I were gone.

sure my husband would (who would cook dinner?) but really what difference do I make?

You make a difference to me...............dear friend
Even without cookies..........heheh

And Truman you are a true genius.....I am cracking up here  ...metaphorically speaking of course



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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 08:32:07 pm »

 ??? ???

I thought Jews didn't believe in an afterlife.

Did I hear wrong?

Offline Wayne

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 05:18:58 pm »
 :D     Fantastic pic della!! 

My understanding is that in Jesus's time there were different schools of thought among Jews on the afterlife.

The Pharisees did believe in an afterlife. For all his disagreements with them, Jesus did say he agreed with them on this point.

On the other hand the Saducees rejected the idea of an afterlife.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 12:42:40 am »
:D     Fantastic pic della!!

Thanks!  It's Leighton's "Captive Andromache".  Taken as a concubine by a Mycenaen king as a spoil from the Trojan war, she is shown in her new home, isolated in her grief, orphaned, widowed and with her child dead. 

Quote
My understanding is that in Jesus's time there were different schools of thought among Jews on the afterlife.

The Pharisees did believe in an afterlife. For all his disagreements with them, Jesus did say he agreed with them on this point.

On the other hand the Saducees rejected the idea of an afterlife.

So, is modern Judaism then based more on Pharisee sect beliefs than the Saducees?

I started to read through the Wikipedia articles, but my eyes started to glaze over.  :P

Offline fritzkep

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 07:55:29 pm »
Contemporary rabbinical Judaism is derived from the Pharisees. The other ancient sects that identified themselves as Judaic no longer exist. The Samaritans of course, who still exist, never identified themselves with Judaism.

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 08:41:53 pm »
Contemporary rabbinical Judaism is derived from the Pharisees. The other ancient sects that identified themselves as Judaic no longer exist. The Samaritans of course, who still exist, never identified themselves with Judaism.



OK.  I wonder why I still hear some Jews say that they don't believe in an afterlife.  I guess that's just them, personally, being Jewish but not really religious.

Offline fritzkep

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 08:46:07 pm »
Contemporary Jewish thought, even among the Orthodox, does not emphasize the afterlife, but none of the major divisions today would deny it, except for those in groups that think of Judaism more culturally than religiously.

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Offline fritzkep

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008, 08:47:04 pm »
Great minds.....    :D

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Eschatology: fire, brimstone, and the end of the age
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008, 08:07:31 pm »
OK thanks, guys.

That seems a huge rift, though doesn't it?  Two branches of Judaism from two millennia ago believing two different things about a rather important issue and one coming out on top for - it seems - no other reason than they were the ones left standing.

Is it like Christianity, where there were all flavors of Christianity about, Marcionism, Gnosticism, etc, and the one that came out at the end was simply because the head of the most powerful empire at the time 'picked a side' basically and enforced it with laws and violence?