Author Topic: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John  (Read 114313 times)

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2008, 08:03:37 pm »
Jesus explains that that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. The wind blows where it wants and you hear the sound of it. But you don't know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

So it seems we are to understand the current passage in a spiritual sense and not in the sense of flesh.

Recall by the way that spirit comes from the same root word as "breath." So the analogy of spirit, wind, and breath remains enigmatic.

"Spiritual" doesn't necessarily mean "not physical."  Rather, it means relating to breath instead of relating to flesh.

Maybe ... relating to process rather than matter.    ???
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Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2008, 08:06:52 pm »
So we come to that verse ...

For God so loved the world
That he gave his only begotten son
That whosoever believeth in him
Should not perish
But have everlasting life.

I wanted to take a closer look at these words "everlasting life." What does it mean? Here's a cool website for translation from the original Greek text of any verse in the New Testament:

http://www.greekbible.com/index.php

You can click on any word in any verse in the the Greek New Testament and get a paragraph worth of translations!!   :o :)

Here is what it says for the words "life everlasting" (zoe aionios) in John 3:16

(zoe) 1) life  1a) the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate  1b) every living soul 
2) life  2a) of the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the  hypostatic "logos" and to Christ in whom the "logos" put on human nature  2b) life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those  who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect  body), and to last for ever. 

(aionios) without beginning and end, that which always has been and  always will be  2) without beginning  3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2008, 08:09:09 pm »
Interesting how in the verse before, John 3:15, it's a little different:

"whosoever believes will in him have everlasting life."

I'm not sure whether the distinction is clear in the original Greek. As well as I can tell, the Greek phrase itself is ambiguous.

If you believe in him, you will have everlasting life.
If you believe, you will have everlasting life within him.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2008, 08:17:14 pm »
I think I will make a confession. For now, with my best effort, it is the latter that I can understand better.

My ego wants to be around forever, but I'm not sure if that's the way it works. I find some peace in accepting that through logos, some ... something of value of me and those I love can go on forever.

Cue Celine Dione "My Heart Goes On"    ::) :P   ;)
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2008, 08:24:17 pm »
Jesus goes on to explain to Nicodemus:

God did not send the son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him...
This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world...
He who practices the truth comes to the Light.

So truth is important, along with reason, light, and breath.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2008, 08:35:33 pm »
Now we switch to John the Baptist again; he has not yet been thrown in prison.

At this point Jesus (or perhaps more specifically his disciples) are also baptizing, and it seems everyone is going to him instead of John the Baptist.

John the Baptist says that's ok, Jesus is the real deal. "He must increase, I must decrease."

In fairness, we as readers will remember that the Mandaean version of the story would be the reverse.

And that's it for chapter 3.    :)
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2008, 06:41:22 pm »
Chapter 4 has just a couple of stories: The woman at the well, and the healing of the son of the man from Cana.

The authorities are getting annoyed that Jesus and his disciples are baptizing more people than even John the Baptist. To me these sound like small popular uprisings that the authorities just won't tolerate.

So Jesus heads back from Judea to Galilee. The usual route would be 120 miles, but he chooses the shortcut through Samaria. This make it about 90 miles. They are walking. And they make this trip fairly often. It sounds like Jesus walks to Jerusalem at least every year for Passover, and maybe other times as well.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2008, 06:59:26 pm »
According to Wikipedia, there are only 712 Samaritans left in Israel today.    :-\

Here are some of them:

                    

According to an old National Geographic, there were fewer than 150 Samaritans in Palestine in 1919. Here are some of them:

When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2008, 07:09:28 pm »
The Samaritans consider themselves to be the remnant of Jews who were left in Palestine in 712 BC when the Assyrians conquered the area.

The Jews considered the Samaritans to be the offspring of the Assyrians themselves. Perhaps it's some of both ...  ???

Mainstream Jews at the time of Jesus were the descendants of those who had been exiled to Assyria, and then had been allowed to return in 538 BC. The Samaritans had their own temple on Mt Gerizim, and the Jews had theirs in Jerusalem. The Jews avoided the Samaritans, but the 2 provinces of the Jews (Judea and Galilee) were separated by Samaria.

So the quick way home for Jesus and his disciples took them through Samaria, where he met this woman at the well.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2008, 07:18:43 pm »
Jesus spells out a little of his theology here. He tells her "The time has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth... God is a Spirit, and those who worship him should worship in spirit and truth.

The woman says to him, "I known that the Messiah is to come, called Christ. When he comes, he will tell us all things."

Jesus says to her, "I am he, who am speaking to you."

The woman becomes convinced he is a prophet because he tells her private things she would not expect him to know about her life. She brings others from town and they become convinced as well.

He actually stays there in the Samaritan town for two days talking with people and many come to believe he is a prophet, or even the messiah.

This may be significant because his experience in Samaria is so much better than it had been in Judea.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don