TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?

[serious crayons]

In the accident scenario, Jack's truck trouble early in the movie could be seen as foreshadowing his death. When they leave the mountain, Ennis helps him with it, but in the end, Ennis isn't there to help him.

And in between, Jack helps Randall with HIS truck trouble.

("Truck trouble" is starting to take on a sexual subtext!  )

[moremojo]

It occurs to me that if Jack did indeed die by gaybashing, it wouldn't necessarily have involved Randall (or the unnamed ranch foreman in the original story) at all, in terms of the two being seen together and others in the community speculating on their relationship. We know that Jack made trips to Mexico for sexual purposes, and it is quite possible that he continued this pattern even after meeting Randall (assuming that theirs became a sexual liaison). A profile of sexual impulsiveness and risk emerges on Jack's part. Jack may have placed himself in a knowingly sexual situation that turned ugly and deadly, and if so, he would not be the first gay man to whom this has happened. This hypothetical scenario would have rendered Jack as the vulnerable prey that JudgeHolden describes as the likely target of gaybashers.

[pnwDUDE]

It occurs to me that if Jack did indeed die by gaybashing, it wouldn't necessarily have involved Randall (or the unnamed ranch foreman in the original story) at all, in terms of the two being seen together and others in the community speculating on their relationship. We know that Jack made trips to Mexico for sexual purposes, and it is quite possible that he continued this pattern even after meeting Randall (assuming that theirs became a sexual liaison). A profile of sexual impulsiveness and risk emerges on Jack's part. Jack may have placed himself in a knowingly sexual situation that turned ugly and deadly, and if so, he would not be the first gay man to whom this has happened. This hypothetical scenario would have rendered Jack as the vulnerable prey that JudgeHolden describes as the likely target of gaybashers.

Randall is the 'unnamed ranch foreman'. I'm more likely to agree at your perspective if Jack's death wasn't an accident.

Brad

[pnwDUDE]

I always assumed that if other cops he worked with found out they might have beat the crap out of him.

Having been in his shoes at one time, it wasn't about getting beat up by fellow cops, it was about what they might think. I would drive 120 miles to the big city north of me to go to gay bars. I remember being petrified about a fellow cop seeing me go into a gay bar. Course, once I was comfortable with myself, I realized no one at work cared/cares. Most of it was in my head. Yeah, the Ennis stuff (although I was never afraid of being killed or beat up) and I was a cop in the 80's.

Brad

sorry to be off topic

[Jeff Wrangler]

I discussed the general topic of gaybashing and hate crimes with a female deputy sheriff in the very kind of small red-state town where Jack Twist might of met his theoretical end, a gal of the age to have been on the job at that time, 1983.

Judge, thank you for contributing a great post (not just because you sort of complimented me  ). I won't take up the space to quote the whole thing here, just the first paragraph so readers will know to which I'm referring.

I'd particularly like to mention that I've thought about the prominence of the Newsomes in the community possibly also being a factor in any hypothetical "cover-up," so I'm glad you mentioned that.

What I want to say here is that I think it's possible that even if Jack's death occurred just the way Ennis envisions it, it still might, in a way, have been a crime of opportunity. If there were rumors about Jack circulating in the Childress area, and some low-life types had heard them, perhaps they just accidentally came on Jack, all by himself alone, changing a tire on some deserted back road, and decided to have a little "fun" with the alleged "queer."

Jack could have been having trouble with that tire, and the mechanics just happen by and offer to "help." There's Jack, all by himself, outside the truck (thus away from any firearm that he might have had inside the truck). Conceivably, he might even have handed the instrument of his own death--the tire iron--to his murderer.

[serious crayons]

Thank you for expounding on your views, ineedcrayons.  I saw in an earlier post you revealed that you had been called a homophobe over at IMDb for expressing your views about this issue.  I'd like to say that I don't think you're a homophobe, and I don't think you should have been called that.

Thanks, Gary. Well, as you know, there were only four people actively participating in that debate at IMDb, two on each "side," and the two on the accident side were straight and the two on the murder side were gay. One person (not Gary) equated calling Jack's fictional death an accident with denying the existence of anti-gay hate crimes in real life, so when things got heated the word "homophobe" was just waiting to be drawn into the conversation.

People here are so much more polite! But also, I was wondering whether here, with more people posting, there'd be any correlation between the accident people and the straight people, and the murder people and the gay people. I think I perceive a slight trend that way, but it's more complex and varied. There are also gay-accident folks and straight-murder folks.

Here's a case, though, where one's life experiences may affect the way one interprets BBM (as they do, to some extent, with any story).

[Brown Eyes]

In the accident scenario, Jack's truck trouble early in the movie could be seen as foreshadowing his death. When they leave the mountain, Ennis helps him with it, but in the end, Ennis isn't there to help him.

And in between, Jack helps Randall with HIS truck trouble.

OOooooooooooo, this is quite excellent Crayons!  I've always thought LaShawn's comments to Jack during their dance was foreshadowing of his death... I love these observations about his even earlier truck troubles and Ennis's involvment.

[moremojo]

Randall is the 'unnamed ranch foreman'.

That is certainly the name that McMurtry and Ossana assigned him, but this tenuous character remains unnamed in Proulx's story.

[Penthesilea]

I've noticed that many people who feel Jack may have been murdered say it is their impression that Lureen is lying to Ennis when she speaks to him on the phone.  I've never interpreted that scene in that way.  I've always assumed that Lureen believed what she told Ennis, but of course she may not have known what really happened.

I'm missing some pages of the discussion, will catch up with the whole thing later. I just wanted to say that these perception by many Brokies is probably assured by Ang Lee's comments. He repeatedly said in interviews Lureen is clearly lying on the phone with Ennis.

[serious crayons]

Just for the record I'd like to say that I don't know what to think about Jack's death.  I don't know what to believe.  When I read the story or watch the film I'm always left puzzled by Jack's death.  I don't feel I was given an answer.  In other words, I'm one of those people who think "if you're not confused here, then you really don't know what's going on."  (If anyone knows the origin of that quote please tell me because I use it all the time.)

Oh, that's right, Gary. Sorry for oversimplifying your position in that IMDb debate.     There were two accident people, one murder person, and you were arguing primarily for ambiguity, right?