TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?

[brokeplex]

Brokebackjack and all others too, how is Lureen's love for Jack diminished or begins to die (if you think that is so as extinguishing),

why do you believe that she ever loved him at all?  couldn't their marriage been a cynical arrangement?

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

Arrangement for Lureen, yes! For Jack, yes too! Since, I consider them both bisexuals, or gay and lesbian... at this time of my understanding!

But cynical, please explain.

Hugs!!

[brokeplex]

By cynical, I mean that the marriage of Lureen and Jack was not necessarily a marriage of two love birds.

 I see it as more of a convenient arrangement for Jack. Jack had an interest in trying to conform to the heteronorming pressures of society, and Jack was also attracted to L.D.'s bank accounts.

 For Lureen, since I believe that Bobby is not Jack's child, she needed a husband to legitimize the child and avoid censure for her and her family from a community that frowned on unwed mothers. I think that she also found Jack convenient because he was not in the mold of a domineering L.D. Newsome and unlikely to get any of L.D.'s favor or friendship.

So, Lureen held the reins on the whole operation, and Jack was just along for the "ride".

so to speak.

[Artiste]

Wow, you make me smile brokeplex... very well said!!

I figure that Lureen was indeed pregnant when she captures Jack, she had analysed him maybe before seeing him where her hat falls?? I think so, do you or any of you?

I still too figure that Lureen knows that Jack was murdered but... she does something about that? What?

I figure that she is lesbian! SEE my thread on that... as there are token gestures about that too,

Hugs!

[Brown Eyes]

Wow, you make me smile brokeplex... very well said!!

I figure that Lureen was indeed pregnant when she captures Jack, she had analysed him maybe before seeing him where her hat falls?? I think so, do you or any of you?

I still too figure that Lureen knows that Jack was murdered but... she does something about that? What?

I figure that she is lesbian! SEE my thread on that... as there are token gestures about that too,

Hugs!

Why do you believe Lureen is a lesbian if you also believe that she has had sexual relationships with at least two men (Jack and whomever you believe impregnated her)?  Those are contradictory things to believe about her character.
 

[brokeplex]

Wow, you make me smile brokeplex... very well said!!

I figure that Lureen was indeed pregnant when she captures Jack, she had analysed him maybe before seeing him where her hat falls?? I think so, do you or any of you?

I still too figure that Lureen knows that Jack was murdered but... she does something about that? What?

I figure that she is lesbian! SEE my thread on that... as there are token gestures about that too,

Hugs!

Artiste, I am puzzled that you persist in believing that the character Lureen is a Lesbian. I am glad to know that you also see that she was likely pregnant when she met Jack.  But what in the film makes you believe that she is a Lesbian?

 Of course the short story gives us very few clues about Lureen. So, I watched some of the scenes in the movie that has Lureen in it. I can find nothing that tells me she is a Lesbian. Now I really look for small details! I found the details about the birthdate of Bobby and came to the conclusion that Lureen was already pregnant when she met Jack. But the Lesbian idea has stumped me. Tell me where in the film you see an indication that Lureen is a Lesbian?

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex, and thanks atz!!

Atz, I will try to reply to brokeplex first, OK?

Atz, it seems that I am not allowed on here to answer you about Lureen being so an "L" anymore on here on Bettermost. So I guess that you will have to re-ask on my thread concerning that, and please often; since it will be incredibly hard for me to prove it to you... if I can at all, and be assured to me that I think more andmore that she was... is, and that I applaud her and all Lureens, and all Ennis' and all Jacks - plus many others!!

Brokeplex, same thing to you that you have only now the liberty to talk about Lureen that way or not but on my post... it seems!!

Brokeplex, may I quote you:

Now I really look for small details! I found the details about the birthdate of Bobby and came to the conclusion that Lureen was already pregnant when she met Jack. But the Lesbian idea has stumped me. Tell me where in the film you see an indication that Lureen is a Lesbian?

...
Brokeplex, about that, I am only now allowed to answer you on think about your second sentence still? And since I can not prove that which I agree with you about her being pregnant then when she meets Jack, you did and I accept that! - But how that can relate to Jack being murdered or not, I would like to dare connect that, but will not... as I fear reprisals; I do not have your talent to compose such - wish I did!

Dare I ask now: was Jack murder an accident?? Or will I be boycotted for that too??

Hugs, hugs!! Let freedom ring on Bettermost!! - I say!!

[serious crayons]

Dare I ask now: was Jack murder an accident?? Or will I be boycotted for that too??

No one is being boycotted for anything. And you are free to discuss Lureen's sexuality in great depth on the thread you created for that purpose.

 

[brokebackjack]

why do you believe that she ever loved him at all?  couldn't their marriage been a cynical arrangement?

Show me anything in that filmed scene of their meeting which shows in any way shape or form indications of such-highly-atypical-of-their-age cynicism, anything other then loneliness on the part of 21 year old Jack. To be flattered on his great day by the Rodeo Queens attentions would have been a JOY to such a young man. Her wealth would have made her  even more glamourous to a dirt poor Wyoming farmboy. Do not even try to tell me you see it, it is not there roflmaoooo!!!!

Show me anything in that scene which does not depict a woman DAZZLED by this handsome gallant bullrider.
What Lureen wanted Lureen got.
And she wanted JACK!!!!

Smitten is the word, brokeplex,  SMITTEN. Lureen was smitten!

When he got her pregnant, he had to marry her. I doubt he even considered NOT marrying her. She was dazzling. To Jack Twist from the poor hard ranch with a father harder then the drought-baked clay of his few brutal acres,  Lureen was a gift thrown from Apollo's chariot as it raced across the sky. To Lureen, Jack was an Alpha hunk with STYLE and a big willie, a man she could guide, a man she could mold, a man to WHOM SHE COULD HAPPILY BE A WIFE. A man who could and would carry her from under the eaves of her pride-bloated daddy's roof.

A novel man, a NEW man in her small town, a man she had no trouble imaging being the envy of every woman she knew.


If this is cynicism rather then young, then all those who are young may be  cynics.

Or maybe, just maybe,  I'm just deeply in love myself.


Take your pick......I'll go with BOTH my alternatives!!!

roflmao

and this need, this fire of Lureen slowly burns out as she realises something is missing from her Jack. He cannot give her what she wanted, what she thought he could. he could be the friend, oh yes, but not the man she dreamed into being.

From these heights did Lureen plummet, bitterness closing in a bit more with every passing year.

From the dazzling texas Rodeo Queen, we come to the sad embittered shell who answered Ennis' telephone call. A very different gal from the woman who married Jack.

Accident or murder, she either refused to believe he had been killed in such a manner or it had been covered up and she really didn't know. She was a woman. That was a prominent family. It is no big stretch to see a small town sherif hiding a well known family's dirty scandal.

And if it WAS an accident, she told the truth AS SHE KNEW IT.

But by the time she hung up...either way, Lureen knew the truth.

[brokeplex]

Do not even try to tell me you see it, it is not there roflmaoooo!!!!

When he got her pregnant, he had to marry her. I doubt he even considered NOT marrying her.

A novel man, a NEW man in her small town, a man she had no trouble imaging being the envy of every woman she knew.

Or maybe, just maybe,  I'm just deeply in love myself.
roflmao

Accident or murder, she either refused to believe he had been killed in such a manner or it had been covered up and she really didn't know. She was a woman. That was a prominent family. It is no big stretch to see a small town sherif hiding a well known family's dirty scandal.

But by the time she hung up...either way, Lureen knew the truth.

Well, I certainly won't try to tell you anything when you have warned me that you are not interested in seeing it.

Why would you assume that Jack got Lureen pregnant? If Bobby was 8 months old when Jack met Alma in Riverton in Sept 1967, and Jack and Lureen made whoopee in the T Bird in Aug 1966, then Lureen was about 3 months pregnant when she met Jack.

You have described Lureen as a member of a "prominent family" in Childress (well, lets just say that the Newsomes were newly prosperous at best) and then you offer the idea that marrying a drifter rodeo cowboy with no education or prospects would make Lureen the envy of her social set in Childress? Please! Lureen would have been the laughing stock of most of her peers. But if the alternative to marrying Jack is an "unwed mother" situation or an illegal abortion (this was 1966 pre-Roe times) ,then she would have married him.

I am truly delighted that you are in love, I am too. More so after this week than ever before! What does "roflmao" mean by the way?

I'll will partially agree with you that in perhaps in the early 1980's small town law enforcement could have kept evidence of a brutal murder covered up.

Lureen knew the truth about Ennis after the phone call ended. That is true. It is also probably true that Lureen knew the truth about Jack far earlier.