Author Topic: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?  (Read 5357 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2008, 01:16:10 am »
And even much more than that! Is... aging quickly BOTH men!!

Did anyone count how many times Ennis was/is depressed?? Heart attack...maybe too??

How many times Ennis even had to change those (sexual) attitudes??

HUgs!!


Offline Sandy

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2008, 09:54:08 am »
I don't care what you call it, all I really care about is who I love.   ;D)

I think that you have reached the perfect conclusion. 


I don't think Ennis would have taken another male lover on his own, but if he had run into another man that saw him for what he was, really valued him, really cared, and gently pursued him, I think something might have developed.

I hope so.  I think that when Ennis spoke aloud in the final scene showed his progress.  I don't think he ever actually sat down and considered his feelings for Jack, they were what they were.  For him to promise Jack, whatever it was, and promise it aloud, showed how far his grief had got him.  Hopefully, he will see the importance of love and welcome it if he is lucky to find it again.   

Scott6373

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2008, 10:00:45 am »
Well if you go by the circumstance which prompted AP to write the story, I would say no.  That old cowboy was alone in that bar, which I consider the real end of the story, so I doubt that Ennis would have ever moved beyond where he was at the end of the written story.  He may have been able to acknowledge it to himself, but I would bet he avoided thinking about his sexuality at all costs.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2008, 10:12:40 am »
  I don't believe Ennis changed his idea about his sexuality after Jack died, but I think he admitted to himself that he loved Jack.  Which is, to me, what was really important. 

  I think that's what Annie Proulx means by the line:  "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe..."  That line means to me, he knew he loved Jack, but he still tried to believe he was straight.

   I give it this interpretation because I was once in this exact same position of loving someone of the same sex and trying to assure myself that I was straight.  (I have since moved to the position that I don't care what you call it, all I really care about is who I love.   ;D)

That's an interesting take on that line, Clyde. My own has always been a bit bleaker, I'm afraid: What he knew, thanks to John Twist, was that shortly before he died, Jack was talking about bringing some other guy up to Lightning Flat. What he tried to believe, was that Jack really hadn't quit him.

I agree with you that Ennis came to understand how much he loved Jack--and how much Jack loved him--but any notion of Ennis "coming out" or being more open about his sexual orientation, or finding another male lover, is completely foreign to my understanding of him.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008, 01:00:14 pm »
So Ennis was an one man's man Jeff Wrangler?? Is that it? In the BM movie?

How do yoiu figure that out, may I ask?

Hugs!

moremojo

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 01:27:21 pm »
Approaching the short story in its finalized form (with the italicized prologue in place), it would appear that Ennis never moved on emotionally, and almost certainly never entered into a relationship with another man. There are clues that Ennis has aged significantly in the prologue, and that many years have passed since Jack's death, and yet he is clearly alone (and subject to his daughter and son-in-law's hopeful kindness) and emotionally fixated on Jack, who now lives on only in his (grotesquely sad) dreams. I do think that Ennis by this point has owned up to his love for Jack ("Jack, I swear--"), but there is no clear indication that Ennis has reconciled himself to any idea that he is homosexual.

The film's ending has a more redemptive feeling than the story. We not only see evidence that Ennis finally realizes what Jack and he shared together, but also that Ennis has learned valuable lessons from his experience with Jack and is beginning to incorporate those lessons into his life. I have never felt that even movie-Ennis was likely to meet and cultivate another man in a romantic or sexual way, but I do have a strong sense that he has at last admitted his own queerness to himself, and recognizes beauty and strength in it, insofar as it describes his powerful and lasting feelings for Jack.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Did Ennis change his attitude toward his sexuality after Jack´s death?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 01:36:46 am »
Thanks moremojo!!

So Jack changed often?

And Ennis changed only once?

Puzzling??

Hugs!!