Author Topic: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?  (Read 47188 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2008, 12:58:14 pm »
Thanks brokeplex, thanks LauraGigs, and thanks to others too!!

Some of Lureen's actions are very impulsive, like Jack is at times so too!! (They have that in common, for a good relationship, at least!! Both of you commented and you have my thanks!!

Brokeplex: I wish I had your talent brokeplex to explain, as brilliantly as you did. Thanks!

LauraGigs, I like your frankness. It remains that society does not accept my actions nor Lureen's, then nor now too??


If I can do it, I know that Lureen can do it, you are saying LauraGigs; I agree with you!!  But in the straight world, the mating game does not usually accepts that, right, neither from me nor from Lureen!! At least, society is changing... and we can hope, and act for it to change for better of all humans!!

May I say:
Lureen likely knew the other men at that bar, and even if she was cruised by them or some, she preferred NOT TO BE CRUISED since she is like her father, agressive!! She does NOT want an agressive man like them!! 

Jack is not agressive towards her, but likes her delicious smile, her ladyship-ways, her physique too surely because she is sexy in more than one way, very attractive and modernly expensively dressed, etc.; she is a  catch or will be... by most. Since she does not know Jack yet, she has an amiable eye for him, for many reasons, as he is sexy, her height desire, manly dressed, beautiful eyes, helpful picking up her hat and civilized doing so, - and much more, since she is intelligent, knowledgeable about men having worked in her father $ high class bussiness, and Jack to her is something great to capture!!

Jack she knows will move her... in wondrous ways for her plan as a potential husband, since that is her aim!!

If a man was gay, she would know, as she is no fool; she has maybe gaydar sensing Jack is gay or bi, lilely!  She has a secret and she knows that her secret will be kept since Jack has his own secret; so, she finds the perfect man for her in order to keep her secret to herself (since only her mother likely knows - and maybe her father via her mother- too); she does keep secrets, right??

She does not tell Jack when she mates him sexually, she does not have to do so even thought she is pregnant already but she only has a bit of time before her pregnancy shows to the general public. Her mother knows about it already, surely; and, maybe told her daughter: get married now and soonest!! To see Jack then at the rodeo where she happilly dropped her hat to him ( as ladies did in the monarchy courts) is something, an effort to say to Jack hello sexy?? !! -

And to immediately chase after Jack is something, refusing another more masculine and tall man at that bar is something too, but for her to swim to Jack at that bar and oblige him to dance with him is very much mating, like her same agressiveness with sex is essential with Jack immediately after, so he would think that he is or maybe the father of that futur son, since no rubbers was used so quickly enhanced was that sexual action; Jack was surprised, but she was not surpised since she had him planned as her plan!!

She is lesbian, discovered that in college, may I add?

Of course, Jack cooperates; he does not know that she is lesbian... not right now. Will her later??

Wow, what a movie about guys and girls, and sweet sex!!

Awaiting your news,

hugs, hugs!!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2008, 01:13:53 pm »

I think the reason that Lureen and Jack were attracted to one another... and that they seemed to function rather well as friends is that they both do not fit the gender norms/ gender expectations for their time.

Lureen wants to be a successful business woman.  And, she wants to choose her mate for herself and according to her own standards (not her father's) and according to her own timing in initiating the interaction between herself and Jack in the bar.  She does try to flirt more subtly from across the room (by making eye-contact, etc.), but this doesn't seem to work with Jack.  So, she decides to become more aggressive.  I definitely applaud Lureen for following her own urges and timing.  Etc.

I truly don't see any evidence in BBM to support the idea that Lureen was a lesbian.  As a gay woman myself, I would definitely have enjoyed seeing gay-female culture included in BBM on some level.  But, I really don't believe that it was.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2008, 01:54:53 pm »
WHY, then, do people think that a woman initiating sex is such a radical, immoral thing?

That's what I was alluding to in my earlier post. I don't like to throw around the word "sexist" (though, oops, I guess I just did) but I am troubled that people hold Lureen's assertiveness against her. This applies not only to her behavior with Jack but her commitment to her work. Yes, her bold moves with Jack and, later, her career drive may have been unusual in 1960s small-town Texas. So if people want to call Lureen unusual, fine. But some don't -- some call her a slut (in so many words), aggressive, pushy, a bad wife, a bad mother, a cold woman, a wife who wants to "wear the pants," etc. All of these are genuinely offensive to a 21st century feminist who believes Lureen's behavior would -- or at least should -- be perfectly normal and acceptable now. An anachronism for her time? Maybe. But genuinely wrong or mean or irresponsible or immoral? No way.

I'm not addressing this speficially to Artiste, who I believe actually presented softer views than some I've seen expressed. Occasionally I am shocked at what I have seen written about a woman who, as far as I can tell, only did two things wrong in her life:

1) eavesdropped on some customers calling her husband an unflattering name and failed to burst in and leap to his defense, even though doing so may have endangered hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales for the company.

2) Forgot to call Bobby's teacher.

Well, three if you count choosing a bad hair color.

I think the reason that Lureen and Jack were attracted to one another... and that they seemed to function rather well as friends is that they both do not fit the gender norms/ gender expectations for their time.

I think this is true. They functioned well as friends, and Jack was actually attracted to Lureen on some level -- not in a sexual way, but more like intrigued by her boldness and attractiveness (and money).

However, over time their relationship stops working even in this way. Lureen gets more and more frustrated, as expressed in her hair color and clothes, and Jack eventually complains about her work habits and says they could do their marriage over the phone. Well yeah -- maybe that has something to do with his lack of romantic or sexual interest in her.







Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2008, 02:44:08 pm »
Yes, clearly their relationship gets strained over time (and for numerous reasons probably).  But, I think deep down Jack and Lureen loved each other very much in their own way.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

moremojo

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2008, 02:54:31 pm »
Well, three if you count choosing a bad hair color
Four if you count her cool, catty retort to Lashawn when informed of the latter's college sorority. Heck, five if you include her pointed, barbed question to Jack in the same sequence.

Truth be told, Lureen has never struck me as a particularly nice person, which isn't the same, admittedly, as a bad person, which I do not see her as. She was, like all the other characters, all too human, flaws and all.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2008, 03:22:31 pm »
Four if you count her cool, catty retort to Lashawn when informed of the latter's college sorority. Heck, five if you include her pointed, barbed question to Jack in the same sequence.

True, her retort to LaShawn was catty. Her question to Jack, though, seems legitimate -- especially if you see the subtext as being "How come husbands never sleep with their wives?" -- though at the dinner table with another couple is perhaps is not the best place to ask it.  :laugh:



Offline Artiste

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Was Lureen pregnant before she met Jack?
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2008, 03:52:49 pm »
Wow, wow, wow, wow, thanks ineedcrayons, thanks moremojo, thanks atz75, thanks brokeplex, thanks LauraGigs, thanks Katie77, and thanks to all others too!!

For the record, I do not think that Lureen is a slut! To each his own... I say. (I had sex with many persons and do not consider myself such!!)

Of course, maybe she is an odd duck (for the lack of a better word if I may say, according to her times... those 60's, 70's... and I applaud her for being in the sexual revolution - and act it in a way she could which come to think of it, it is that time: revolution!!

May I repeat REVOLUTION!! May I repeat that I think that she is lesbian and/or bi-, since she is in that time period, no? But I will add that she can NOT come out of the closet... then those days even if it is a sexual revolution (not for gay men thaty much, especially not for lesbians nor bi-s... maybe better for bi-s though)!!

Lureen could not come out as a lesbian nor as a bi- then,  nor now in 2008 (althought 2008, maybe she could if she moved; see Oprah with lesbians on her recent 2008 show).

Of course, I think Lureen was pregnat before she met Jack. And she saved herself since she was a lesbian and/or bi- lady! By marrying Jack! That is OK in my book!! For both!!


More later, as may I have your comments from all of you,

hugs!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2008, 04:08:43 pm »
Neither the film nor the story of BBM present us with any concrete evidence that Lureen had multiple sexual partners or any other sexual partner than Jack.  Yes, the timeline is messed up... but the timeline of BBM is messed up in many ways (not just with regard to Lureen, Bobby and Jack).  And, of course, even if she did have other lovers, this in no way justifies the use of such a derogatory term as "slut."

Lureen is one of my favorite characters in the movie.  And, it's exactly because she's ambitious and assertive that I like her.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2008, 04:13:40 pm »
BBM characters (besides Jack, Ennis, Rich and Earl) who some people speculate are gay:

1) Lureen
2) Aguirre
3) John Twist

BBM characters (besides Mr. Del Mar) who some people speculate are murderers:

1) Lureen
2) L.D. Newsome

Am I missing anyone?

And, of course, even if she did have other lovers, this in no way justifies the use of such a derogatory term as "slut."

To be fair, I was paraphrasing. Let's say that people have suggested that she was overly promiscuous.




Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2008, 04:23:18 pm »

To be fair, I was paraphrasing. Let's say that people have suggested that she was overly promiscuous.


Hey Bud,
Yes, I definitely realize this.

My post was really bouncing off of (sort of reiterating in different terms) this comment:


For the record, I do not think that Lureen is a slut! To each his own... I say.
 

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie