Author Topic: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll  (Read 12313 times)

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« on: January 14, 2008, 08:17:19 pm »
Current moderators and administrators are asked not to vote in this poll.  I am interested in the results from residents who do not hold an administrative function here.

An Ombudsman, as I would define it here, would be an elected individual, not currently a moderator or administrator, charged with acting as an independent observer of the community.  An ombudsman would be able to receive complaints and comments from residents of the community regarding matters those individuals feel are not satisfactorily being addressed, or are of concern to a resident that would like to draw attention to a problem but do so in an anonymous manner.

The ombudsman would then be able to independently investigate the matter by privately asking questions of all involved, collecting evidence, and should a complaint be substantiated, to report back to the community publicly with the findings.  Unsubstantiated complaints, or those determined to be unfounded, are generally not published.

A complaint determined to be substantiated can and should then be seriously reconsidered by the administrative staff for action.  Since the ombudsman is essentially a "people's representative," the position would be elected by the residents with one round of elections and then a runoff between the two top vote-getting candidates.

An ombudsman must be fair and impartial and consider submissions strictly on their merit, not by the person making the submission.  Most social communities with an ombudsman rarely need to call upon that person if the administration is responsive to the needs of the community, but can be helpful as an independent individual to approach in a confidential manner.

Many communities have no need for one, so this poll should not be taken as an indication of a need for one here.  It's rather a general poll to gauge interest.
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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2008, 08:44:28 pm »
Philip:

   For the reason that we have some very strong minded individuals here.  With many differing opinions,
i believe that there are instances where the people are not ever completely out of a tit for tat situation,
once the fracas begins.  There are people here with long standing feuds, and disagreements.  For the
most part, the people here get along well and treat each other with a great deal of courtesy, and even
care.. However there has become a few situations that are festering for such a long time, that they
need to have the fire department come in once in a while in order to put out the flames.
  I think also, some of the stuff that is brought out is merely misunderstandings.  But they never get
resolved either, because no conclusion or explanation is ever forthcoming. 
  In order for some of these things to get worked out for good and all.  With resolutions and satisfaction
to all parties...It would be good to have someone that could handle that...
  I know that Clarissa hesitates for varous reasons to become embroiled in this kind of activity, in order to
still enjoy her own participation here...But that being said..it really shouldn't be a part of her job...She has
to do so much already, that is stressful.  This would only add to her stress level..so if we could have a
nomination for this and an election.. I think that would be a good idea..i just hope there would be
someone willing to take the job on...                                                  janice
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 03:11:07 pm by ifyoucantfixit »



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Offline BelAir

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 08:46:23 pm »
Current moderators and administrators are asked not to vote in this poll.  I am interested in the results from residents who do not hold an administrative function here.

An Ombudsman, as I would define it here, would be an elected individual, not currently a moderator or administrator, charged with acting as an independent observer of the community.  An ombudsman would be able to receive complaints and comments from residents of the community regarding matters those individuals feel are not satisfactorily being addressed, or are of concern to a resident that would like to draw attention to a problem but do so in an anonymous manner.

just saying a few things before reading others thoughts or voting...

if you have one, you would probably you would need more than one... and they would probably need a 'term' during which to serve...
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 02:40:56 pm »
just saying a few things before reading others thoughts or voting...

if you have one, you would probably you would need more than one... and they would probably need a 'term' during which to serve...

good thoughts Belair. I personally think this is a good idea (I presume I can say that Phillip - if not please feel free to delete)
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Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 04:36:08 pm »
just saying a few things before reading others thoughts or voting...

if you have one, you would probably you would need more than one... and they would probably need a 'term' during which to serve...

Most enterprises have a single ombudsman to handle things.  Since we don't have an indication of needing one as of yet, I haven't gotten into further defining the role/term/etc.

I voted "No" because I think that the person you're describing doesn't exist.  We all know some members more than others, we all like some members more than others ... it can't be helped.

I think that there are non-aligned residents here who don't consider social connections to be a major component of their time here, and that would probably be a potentially excellent candidate for the role.  I agree that choosing someone that is part of a recognizeable subset of the community probably would pose a higher risk, but even some of those people can, if strong-willed sufficiently, set aside any inherent bias and engage solely independent of their social connections.  It's probably easier to choose someone from the former than the latter, but we'd cross that bridge if/when we came to it.
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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 04:46:28 pm »



      one person in particular stands out to me, and a couple more would be good choices as well.  i will post their name
whenever you make the decision to take recommendations....



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Offline dot-matrix

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 05:19:48 pm »
I agree that choosing someone that is part of a recognizeable subset of the community probably would pose a higher risk, but even some of those people can, if strong-willed sufficiently, set aside any inherent bias and engage solely independent of their social connections. 

Hmmmm possibly,  :-\ but even some moderators have trouble seperating their own personal prejudices, likes and dislikes and playing fair. It's human nature.  We do not always rise to our higher selfs much as we would like too.    Hmmm I definitely agree someone with no obvious affiliations would need to be chosen if this had even a chance of succeeding because even if one who belong to a so-called "sub-group" were able to be fair minded and unbiased they would still be vulnerable to attack on that basis by those not satisfied with their findings.  That makes Bel Air's suggestion of a group, perhaps a Peer Review Board instead of an Ombudsman seem more effective.   Perhaps six elected officials serving as a triumverate with each member serving 6 months and elections once a year.     
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 07:27:57 pm »
Wow, did not vote yet, and, but thought immediately to say no, and now would be pleased to vote yes!!

No men yet except Phillip and I; pray many will add their thoughts and/or votes!!

May I suggest:
Great idea for time:Terms would be needed. Terms are done in Canada, I do not know if that is so where this word (country started from.

To me, it is required too that we have more than one on here, since we are different groups: one for gay men, one for lesbians, one for ladies issues, one for straights, one for bi-s, one for others???
That would be six, and since this is Phillip's site (?) then he as the final vote if disputes are not solved before that!

I would like each ombudsman (ombudswoman, ombuds-person) to take the name he/she/or other selects,
as nominative. I would select to be called ombudsman-gay, for instance, if I was on.)

The first solving-effort would be individual: between the complainant/request-person and his or her ombusman/woman/person. If not solved there, then the complainant/request-person would ask for a 3rd person, that being another ombudsman/woman/person. The 3rd level, would be maybe all the ombudsman/woman/person, with Phillip to vote if there is a tie!! Is that too much??

I think that the comments are great!! And aim that will help Bettermost  to be Betterbest, since we are already best with all the members so far, with the moderators, and with Philip and others sharing all too!!

Don't be shy to contradict me or ask questions from me... you and you all here!! Bienvenue, welcome!

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Offline BelAir

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 08:13:41 pm »
Most enterprises have a single ombudsman to handle things.  Since we don't have an indication of needing one as of yet, I haven't gotten into further defining the role/term/etc.

Okay, understandable.

Just to explain my own thought process... in trying to decide whether I felt an ombudsman was needed, I was trying to think forward to what life would be like with/for that person...  and I was sort of wondering if having one might somehow make things 'worse' rather than better...  (worse in quotes, because I am not certain a problem exists)

I do really appreciate it (globally and personally) that questions such as these are posted in a poll...

I was worrying that one person may potentially get overwhelmed, be accused of playing favorites, etc... hence the suggestion of more than one person...  And if I continue with this line of thinking, it stands to reason that if complaints were submitted anonymously, no one would be accused of favorites, and maybe it would be random who dealt with which complaint... On the other hand, the best 'critiquing' system I have ever seen was in a college seminar class where we all critiqued and graded each other, signed our names, and our reviews were public...  You had to "own" your opinion, in essence...  FWIW, I don't know anyone that has ever been involved with an ombudsman (online or elsewhere), so I am really just theorizing...

Regardless, the more I think about it, the more complicated things seem to get...

I voted no in the poll actually, because for me personally, I am not convinced it is necessary for BetterMost as a community.  (And I'm not disagreeing with anyone in the matter, only expressing what I feel personally.
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Offline BelAir

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 08:19:30 pm »
"An Ombudsman, as I would define it here, would be an elected individual, not currently a moderator or administrator, charged with acting as an independent observer of the community."

Hi Phillip,

I just reread the original post, and am wondering exactly what you mean by 'independent' observer?

Thanks.
Bel
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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 06:21:44 am »
I think it is a good idea. I know some great people who won't join BM for one reason: they had problems with someone on another forum who is now on BM, someone who still goes out of her way to make it unpleasant for people currently here at BM whom she doesn't like >>>>from THAT forum.

Things such as this are not healthy for BM. I will happiliy tell Lee exactly what went on in person, if she's interested. Me? I've been a member since Oct of 2006. At first I visited, and activity slowly climbed. The last 6 months I've been here a lot. BM is now the only forum I go to and I am on it every day....for me, it's  "Brokie Central".

It's a great forum with FREEDOM. Let me repeat that>>>BM IS A PLACE WITH FREEDOM. It is largely devoid of dumbassed rules, aside from those which are necessary for it to function.

And I would like to keep it that way. It is why I am here.
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 08:02:51 am »

I voted "Yes." I think it'd be a good idea to have an ombudsman. Certainly, a step in the right direction. I don't envy the officeholder, however. S/he will need to have the wisdom of Solomon.


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Offline jstephens9

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 07:45:35 pm »
My initial thought is that having an Ombudsman is a great idea. I have seen a lot of things happen here that I wish could be resolved. BetterMost consists of an incredible group of people and it is a shame that some misunderstandings do not seem resolvable. I truly think that if someone were there to maybe mediate these misunderstandings in an nonthreatening manner so many more people would get along and enjoy each other again. Misunderstandings, if left unresolved, have this way of festering and becoming worse. Sometimes and in fact many times these misunderstandings can spread thereby creating sides. I feel very fortunate to find myself in a place where I truly feel I get along with everyone. I found out awhile back that I very much want to understand everyone's thoughts here and I truly do not want to ever find myself taking sides. I have mentioned to people before that I seem to have many friends here who are not necessarily within the same subgroups. I like that. I know that some of my friends have misunderstandings with some of my other friends. I can accept that while feeling no need or want to take a side. I do sometimes wish they could get along like they once did.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 03:21:41 pm »


            Well in response to Artiste, I feel that selecting the people as regard their own affiliation,, ie gay, lesbian hetero,
just further separates the issues, that often is the source of the trouble...It would only draw the battle ilines further.  I think a group of three would be alright, but anything more than that would be unwieldy.  Six would leave many of the discussions
on an equal vote, still no answer.  It would have to be an uneven number.  Either one, or three or five..etc.   But yes
I think it is needed.  Just to reiterate. 



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Offline jstephens9

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 04:14:53 pm »
I ended up voting yes although I am still thinking my vote over. I think Janice is right that we do not want to have separate individuals representing separate groups. I believe Artiste suggested this, but I do not agree since as Janice says this would further divide people and issues. We certainly do not want to do that. I also agree with her that it needs to be an odd number of people so that any kind of votes don't end up in a tie. I think we would definitely need more than one, but no more than five. I actually feel five is a good number since this job will require more time than one could handle. I am glad that Jack brought up the fact that some people will not come on here because of previous arguments with others that are not even related to BetterMost. I know I have some really good friends that just go to DC and that is a shame since these people have a lot to offer our forum. Also, like Jack, says BM IS A PLACE OF FREEDOM!!! Now that is a great thing and something that we can never loose. That is the reason I choose to be here and that is the reason I stay away from DC. So let's make sure this is truly a good idea that will promote better relations. Let's make sure this does not limit our freedoms.

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 04:36:59 pm »
Personally, I think we're overthinking things by talking an ombudsman...  just making more "process" and red tape for the Bettermost experience.

JMO though.

Offline BelAir

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 04:51:15 pm »
yes Laura, that is along the lines of what I was thinking
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2008, 07:47:03 am »
I ended up voting yes although I am still thinking my vote over. I think Janice is right that we do not want to have separate individuals representing separate groups. I believe Artiste suggested this, but I do not agree since as Janice says this would further divide people and issues. We certainly do not want to do that. I also agree with her that it needs to be an odd number of people so that any kind of votes don't end up in a tie. I think we would definitely need more than one, but no more than five. I actually feel five is a good number since this job will require more time than one could handle. I am glad that Jack brought up the fact that some people will not come on here because of previous arguments with others that are not even related to BetterMost. I know I have some really good friends that just go to DC and that is a shame since these people have a lot to offer our forum. Also, like Jack, says BM IS A PLACE OF FREEDOM!!! Now that is a great thing and something that we can never loose. That is the reason I choose to be here and that is the reason I stay away from DC. So let's make sure this is truly a good idea that will promote better relations. Let's make sure this does not limit our freedoms.

What's DC?  ???
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Offline Shasta542

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2008, 07:52:46 am »
Hi Kerry!!  :)

DC is Dave Cullen, another Brokeback Mountain forum.
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 08:24:18 am »
Hi Kerry!!  :)

DC is Dave Cullen, another Brokeback Mountain forum.


Thank you kindly, Shasta.  :D
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Offline jstephens9

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 01:38:05 pm »
I never felt comfortable on Dave Cullen. It seems to have so many rules and regulations. I always felt that anything I said would be analyzed and analyzed. I never want to see that happen here so if having things such as Ombudsmans would lead to that I say "no." I also don't want anyone to get the idea that I have anything against DC. I have many friends there who are great people. Some of them are even moderators. I guess the DC style is just different and I prefer a more relaxed atmosphere.

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 04:16:01 am »
I never felt comfortable on Dave Cullen. It seems to have so many rules and regulations. I always felt that anything I said would be analyzed and analyzed. I never want to see that happen here so if having things such as Ombudsmans would lead to that I say "no." I also don't want anyone to get the idea that I have anything against DC. I have many friends there who are great people. Some of them are even moderators. I guess the DC style is just different and I prefer a more relaxed atmosphere.
ditto---if an ombudsman position might cause this, to hell with it.

At the same time...I can't help thinking after careful consideration we try it. It can always be abolished swiftly if it seems to be negative. BM isn't like Congress or Parliament, where you need to take 1100 motions to do anything. If it's no good, Phillip should have the right to just say so and get rid of it. He's nobodies fool. And we all trust him
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Offline Wishes

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 01:20:43 am »
As someone who can be overly sensitive, I voted "yes" However I'm not completely clear how an Ombudsman would be different than a Moderator.

Also, I'm kind of wondering who the heck would want the position. I think moderating must be hard and time consuming enough.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Offline underdown

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 03:10:00 am »
Well, I voted no.

It would be great if it would work, but, apart from complaints about administrative matters, moderators and obvious personal attacks, it is hard to see how one person could possibly carry out such a responsibility and judge such a large and diverse group of people, determine who was over-reacting to something they see as wrong, who was simply better at pushing their case, or who was not as proficient with the english language ... and still be SEEN to be impartial.
Ditto 3 or more judges. If one of them disagreed with the other two, that would indicate that the judgement is suspect.

Judgements could only be trusted if they were perfectly correct. If they were sometimes based on seemingly logical, but incorrect, assumptions, someone will be unfairly treated, and then the whole exercise would be pointless.

How would an ombudsman collect the 'evidence' and determine if a complaint is 'substantiated' ? This is a community in cyberspace, where nothing is evident, and nothing is substantial, where anyone can sound genuinely agrieved, and anyone else can make incorrect assumptions based upon that.

Certainly, there a some very nice BetterMostians who would be an excellent choice, but who, because they are nice, might be the least likely to nominate for the job. And then we could end up with someone who just likes judging.

OMO, but the only useful role for an ombudsman would seem to be as a confidential 'ear' and arbitrator of matters already raised with administrators and moderators, and even then it would be a very difficult task.
 

Offline Wishes

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 10:37:58 pm »
Actually with as many people as there are posting on this board, it really is amazing how little bickering there is and how well people get along. There are more snipes that go on where I work.

I'm wondering if there was a dispute, having a thread dedicated to that. Maybe a section of the board. Dumb idea?  ???

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2008, 10:42:04 pm »
Actually with as many people as there are posting on this board, it really is amazing how little bickering there is and how well people get along. There are more snipes that go on where I work.

I'm wondering if there was a dispute, having a thread dedicated to that. Maybe a section of the board. Dumb idea?  ???

well it WOULD draw a crowd...people love a fight... ;)

Offline Artiste

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2008, 12:39:51 am »
May I add. Alternatives are needed. An ombudsman is an alternative.

That does not mean that Phillip and moderators are not needed nor unfair; they do their very best or best!! I applaud them and all members!! We all have faults and good points; so do I too!! It's already overpowering, such great surveying task for Phillip and moderators, and growing at a rapid speed!!

Certain things remain unsolved still on Bettermost, unfortunately; and, an ombudsman can help likely - and my I add surely as independant from all: owner, morderators, members!! I see the NEED MORE and MORE for growth; certain things have become stale and many are hurting (either they have been hurted or feel as that is so, plus they or  others need help to solve issues which they consider needs - and need - I accent, everybody needs help on Bettermost and I do too; we need and can reach out more much, much more with certain dynamics (ways) and core subjects (needs)... may I  note.



More rules?  And, that growth of Bettermost (with more members or same number) does NOT need to be more rules; the present rule of Phillip's of no personal attacks will continue surely, and might be the only one needed. Unresolved issues as personal attacks, different cultures or thoughts, emotions, varied sexual orientations, numerous subjects, raw emotions, etc., will need an ombudsman, surely!! Plus:Structures are needed too, if an ombudsman decide that can be results.

There has to be an ombudsman; to me there is no doubt about that. For justice. To help everyone too, which included Phillip, moderators and all members!!

That does not mean that Phillip and moderators are not needed, nor any member and non-members.

Presently, I meet some members who write things that are not fair, as misunderstandings are happening, and some personal attacks too (before and during the recent actors passing and after, and surely that will continue) as that is human nature. Some members have harmed me for no reason without checking to me if there was truth nor to see if I made a mistake; I am sure some harm I likely did also to other members; that is  also human nature; nobody is perfect!!

There are non-members that have reached me privately via my computor and are afraid to become Bettermost members, do not want to become Bettermost members since they have examined it, and are not pleased with it... yet. Of course, we need to be better and better. I think that non-members as well as members want Bettermost to be better... become so with some changes forever!! WE are not blind to that!!

I am often misinterpreted wrongly by many members. You say that we have freedom, yes we do to a certain extend, but that is changing too negatively unfortunately: some do not want me to use, for instance, the following words:
murders, islam,  lesbians, and many others names or expressions that other members used at times and often...  to name a few words but that other members use at times or often, and even gay (often, I was told not to even use the word gay as homosexual - for heaven sake!! I have been attacked often by some members, wronly I repeat being called disrespectful but they did the same and some continued to do so!!

There are some homosexual gay men subjects that we are NOT allowed to talk about so far; why? Is Annie and the BM talk about only heterosexuality!! ?? I think that most of us, if not all of us, are here to talk about Annie's book and the Brokeback Mountain movie, and about all the many, many, many  issues unnumerable ones it illustrates... touching us!!

Lesbianism seems also to be a taboo for some; we here have been ridiculed or likewise, when we try to talk about lesbian issues. About gay bashings, about murders, about religions, and many other issues!! We need to vent... at times, and maybe an ombudsman can see that and give results like how and much more... like I do not know yet, and the ombudsman will find solution to that!!

There are also many female issues that need to be addressed, but too many members shy way from that, do not even start a thread about that!

We do need gay (homosexual) gay moderators; there seems to be none or not enough; an ombudsman could verify that; and if the owner (Phillip) gives that power to an ombudsman, that a report can be done, to create research, which will be analysed by the ombudsman, and could recommend or not added gay moderators for certain reasons and go ahead to do it if that ombudsman had that added power. This is only one example.



So far, I see many gay men who are members wanting out... considering quitting Bettermost and some have and not returned unfortunately to present their expertise (questions, answer, research, etc., to help), even though Bettermost  is the best so far. You say segregation; yes, to a certain point... and it's needed; that does not mean that gays will not go into other sections (as you said segregations), as they want; and vice versa. Like it or not, when two persons speak, that is two segregations!! Plus there are other bigger group(s), and the overall society (in this case Bettermost forum).

Segrations is already here, like or not; there are groups on here now!! That are facts!!

There is no perfect solution anywhere and we can still become better (isn't that why it's called Bettermost?)!!

Ombudsman is much more than a judge: it's an impartial one.. also a researcher, an analyst, etc., a humanist!!

I say that we also need more moderators; I do not feel more free when homosexual men issues have two females as moderators; surely am not the only on!!  I know that females, for instance, feel better when they talk TOGETHER about certain subjects; for instance, a girl talks to her mother more freely about female sex than with her father on certain vaginal troubles or health; I now that my mother who is in her 80's always has and refuses still to talk to me about that and prefers to do so with her daughters or sister-in-law or with other women.

As for certain subjects, I suppose that there could be 3  gay (male homosexuals) moderators for directing gay issues or to result a tie in a complaint or a request. For female issues, 3 females for instance. Etc; for justice for all.

If a complaint is not solve there mutually, then the ombudman's is contacted; that is another task for the ombudsman, as ONE I foresee.

Of course, an ombudsman must use logic, be fair, etc. for justice, for peace among members, for also making programs or sections in Bettermost to be added as they need to be developped and give that task to Phillip I suppose who will with moderators; these are specifics I have seen about ombudsman... as a 2nd task!

As 3rd task, the ombudsman decision is final!!

I hope that I brought some reasons for an ombudsman that will not be shy and that will do its job with fairness for all members.

No harm done to anyone, I am grateful to all,

awaiting your news,

hugs!!


injest

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2008, 01:04:25 am »
just a note, Artiste...we have several gay men as moderators..

David
Nutmeg Guy
Scott
Aussie Chris
Shakestheground
Bruce

Offline Artiste

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2008, 07:15:51 pm »
Thanks injest!

That is news to me! A surprise! Maybe we all should know that, if it was written somewhere??

I still feel uncomfortable for certain gay issues when female moderators are only the ones there... so I would prefer gay moderators ONLY for SOME not all  homosexual iissues.

Likewise for female issues, I think only female moderators would be more at home for CERTAIN female issues? - I do not know since I am a male, but I think that is so for some or all females!!

I like your news and thanks for it as I discover it and to enhance and relax lifes' routes,
hugs!!

Offline Kelda

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2008, 07:16:07 pm »
Also, I'm kind of wondering who the heck would want the position.

True - a thankless job an obudsman...

 :-*
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2008, 03:02:42 pm »
May I note:

1- An ombudsman/lady/person would NOT be a member of Bettermost!! Right??

2- All the ombudsmans (or is it ombudsmen?) I have read about are NOT government members; they are part of that government, yes, but totally impartial!! They are hired for their expertise!!

3- I used to ask myself why would we add another government official?? And now as years passed, I see the need and the wonderful work they do!! Even one lately, dared to say that some police forces were not doing their job since they tried or not to judge themselves as to complaints, but too many were unsuccessful at length about certain cases - so the ombudsman proved that and let it be know publicly too all citizens... and required certain actions of civility, etc., by done by the government and police forces!!

4- In our case, the citizens will be Bettermost members and Phillip and moderators, yes?? !! Not ombudsmans/persons!!

5- Another point, the ombudsman does not have to add more rules that we have now nescessarily; the rule of Phillp of no personal attacks seems fair and will likely continue maybe as the only one; may I wish so too!

6- Concerning gay rights, ombudsman have acted in favor and required that such right of sexual orientation be placed into the charter of human rights. That is another of many examples!!

Much more can be said too from us all,

hugs!!

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2008, 01:29:16 pm »
Thanks for all of this input.  To clarify a few points:

1) The ombudsman would be a member of BetterMost.  This person would be a resident's representative, willing to review decisions made here to ensure they were in keeping with our rules, were fairly applied, and were consistent.  The ombudsman also has the role to challenge decisions that he or she feels are not in keeping with those rules and are unfair or inconsistent, and they can make that known in a public way.  It's part of an appeals process after a decision is rendered.  The ombudsman has the responsibility and right to challenge anyone in a leadership role here if their decisions seem lacking within the context of our rules.

2) This community has an extremely limited set of rules governing conduct, and that is done on purpose.  We have a very limited power structure here on purpose, to prevent any individual or group from claiming power over another individual or group.  Many social communities can dissolve because of power plays, but that's impossible here because no one has the authority to just impose their will on others unless those people go along with it.  The ombudsman is another protective mechanism to ensure a safety valve exists here.

3) There is a significant gender gap when it comes to tolerance and acceptance of different kinds of content and the way people communicate, and I recognize that.  The answer to that is more ways and places to communicate freely, recognizing that not every aspect of BetterMost will appeal to every resident.  Finding the areas that do interest you and avoiding those that don't is the best recommendation.  Where people get into trouble is when they attempt to impose their vision of acceptable content on the community as a whole, something I regularly resist.  Every resident here has the power to be their own moderator of their own blog, and as long as they don't violate the core rules of the community, they can talk about whatever they want.

4) The dispute resolution process between individuals should be conducted privately and not involve the entire community, and personal attacks of any kind are not acceptable to me.  I am working on some new ways to deal with interpersonal disputes which will be discussed at length, along with the Ombudsman position, as part of our Annual Report which is forthcoming.
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Offline jstephens9

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2008, 04:02:36 pm »
I think the idea as you present it here Phillip sounds good. It appears to me that this person (or people) will serve as intermediary between the residents and the moderators as you have it presented here. Is that the case?

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2008, 04:55:55 pm »
I think the idea as you present it here Phillip sounds good. It appears to me that this person (or people) will serve as intermediary between the residents and the moderators as you have it presented here. Is that the case?

Actually the ombudsman is more of an oversight person, who serves first and foremost the individual residents, not the admins or moderators. That's why I propose it be an elected position where individual residents have a vote and those serving an administrative function here do not.  That ombudsman is your representative elected to serve your collective interests.  A good ombudsman candidate would be someone who isn't closely aligned to any group of people here but is around enough to know the community.  That prevents friendships from getting in the way of good oversight.  An ombudsman isn't a perennial critic either.  There will be cases when an ombudsman will not be in agreement with an appeal over something.  Usually am ombudsman gets involved if there is a failure on our part to properly address an issue.  Most of our community gets along fine and with our minimal rules and more free-wheeling atmosphere, most people are happy and content.

The ombudsman can keep confidences with residents as well, in case they are afraid of getting some sort of social retribution.

We aren't required to adopt what an ombudsman offers as a decision, but because it is issued in public, there is a natural inclination to take it seriously.


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Offline jstephens9

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2008, 07:52:16 pm »
So would the ombudsman be a type of objective peacemaker/peacekeeper?

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Re: Ombudsman for BetterMost Poll
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2008, 01:28:42 am »
Phillip: That is NOT exactly how I thought would be such an ombudsman... as you note NOW!