Is Jack still alive?

[Artiste]

Thanks brokebackjack!

May I say that I am not so sure that Jack is dead; that one, his death, we can believe; one can also think that he is alive and not dead even if the movie seems to tell us that: his passing away!!

I may have a proof... that Jack is still alive at the end of the movie. At least, I think Jack is alive and someone framed his death in that BM movie.

Hugs!

[brokebackjack]

Artiste, what do you see in the film which makes you think that  Jack remains alive? I'm really interested here. You have a view of things which is 'outside the box'.

People with no box can see things others don't but even without a box I don't see jack as being alive. It would negate the meaning and tragedy of the story.

So I'd really like to know what leads you to think this

Jack

[brokeplex]

Well, in the story as written Jack is really dead. Really, Most Sincerely dead. As dead as if a house had fallen on his head or he had melted Artiste.

Jack's dead.

That was the crux which  made Brokeback great. It was concieved of as a Greek tragedy in short story format

Truly a great short story and film.

For me the tragedy is just a great if Jack lived and had just given up on Ennis. If Jack refused to see Ennis again, Jack would still be just as dead for Ennis as if Jack had physically died. The "Greek Tragedy" analogy is interesting, but I think the greatness of both the film and the short story is in their deadon explanation of what the "tragedy" of the closet is really all about.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex, and thanks brokebackjack!!

Brokeplex, I will reply later, since that is heavy for me to think about... right now.

Brokebackjack:
Since you asked brokebackjack, I really think that Jack is alive still at the end of the BM movie... but that is a secret told or untold??

I think that maybe Lureen tells us that Jack is still alive (or nearly dead); that is what I think so far. She seems to hint that somehow, I feel. Maybe that is what that actress feels? Or the director wanted? Or the screen writers wanted? Or another wanted? It seems to be there, in many ways.

I can not help but think that, I awake now more than once in my bed, and think about it many days! But to find out, especially, you have to see Lureen in another light; but nobody wants to see that from what I note even on Bettermost; some or maybe one did, but was not understood and so he went away on another site, I am told; but he had another view much different than mine, I seem to think and note.

To see that Jack is still maybe alive... you have to place your light on Lureen: HOW do you think?

Hugs!!

[brokebackjack]

Brokeplex, Greek tragedy is not my idea, it is what Annie did. She has said this publicly in forums and privately to people here on both BM and the DCF. It is a tragedy, Attic in all essentials, which could have been but is not in a play form since she doesn't really know how to write a play. She used those principles in the format she is master of, the short story.

 bbm is the first successful--brilliantly successful--case where any english language author managed to achieve this. Again, bbm is completely, completely based on classical principles. Tragedy is its ESSENCE. The characters are destroyed by their own flaws.

If you do not get this you miss many clues, many lessons. You can miss the forest for the trees.

 THINK GREEK.

[brokebackjack]

ARTISTE..I LOVE YOU BUT WE WILL DEBATE THIS LATER MON AMI [lol].

now is for heath.

i still cannot believe this shit.

[brokeplex]

Brokeplex, Greek tragedy is not my idea, it is what Annie did. She has said this publicly in forums and privately to people here on both BM and the DCF. It is a tragedy, Attic in all essentials, which could have been but is not in a play form since she doesn't really know how to write a play. She used those principles in the format she is master of, the short story.

 bbm is the first successful--brilliantly successful--case where any english language author managed to achieve this. Again, bbm is completely, completely based on classical principles. Tragedy is its ESSENCE. The characters are destroyed by their own flaws.

If you do not get this you miss many clues, many lessons. You can miss the forest for the trees.
 THINK GREEK.

OK "forest guide", rather than tell me how sadly clueless I am, why don't you offer links or references to the interviews which you have pointed out here rather than just restating your point with a sneer.

For my part I have read several scholarly essays in "Reading Brokeback Mountain" which do point out some of the classical allusions and techniques in the short story. But in reading those essays I haven't noticed that any of them claim that, to quote you, "Brokeback Mountain is completely, completely based on classical principles." Maybe you see something I don't see? 

OK, so unzip and lets compare.

[brokebackjack]

OK "forest guide", rather than tell me how sadly clueless I am, why don't you offer links or references to the interviews which you have pointed out here rather than just restating your point with a sneer.

For my part I have read several scholarly essays in "Reading Brokeback Mountain" which do point out some of the classical allusions and techniques in the short story. But in reading those essays I haven't noticed that any of them claim that, to quote you, "Brokeback Mountain is completely, completely based on classical principles." Maybe you see something I don't see? 

OK, so unzip and lets compare.

Brokeplex that was not stated with a sneer.

If you would LIKE to have it stated with a sneer, please advise me, as there is NOOOOObody who can do it better.

Just give me half a chance

[brokeplex]

Brokeplex that was not stated with a sneer.

If you would LIKE to have it stated with a sneer, please advise me,as there is NOOOOObody who can do it better.

Just give me half a chance

OK, so I'll just have to accept that you're not interested in explaining your point of view further .......a dog barks the caravan moves on.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokenbackjack, thanks brokeplex!!

Brokenbackjack, may I ask you to note that my reply was done before Heath's passing was known by authorities in NYC!! I was not at my New York City art studio then nor before nor since!! I only saw news about Heath after supper (after 5 or near 6, if I remember correctly). Of course, we all are sad... then and now. I pray that we all are happy too that Ennis helped us all too!!

I appreciate your help.

I like brokeplex questions or comments too, and yours.

We are all in pain then and still, and we all need help... and we all can help too, may I suggest in many amiable ways!

We can all be kind to each other!! Even in such hard sad times, as Annie and BM movie tells us... in order to help each other and love which is grand like their acting and Heath as a person was!!

Hugs to you brokebackjack, hugs to you brokeplex!! We all LOVE you Heath!!