Do you think your life will change now?

[serious crayons]

I mean, I know we've all changed some since seeing Brokeback Mountain. That's a big part of why we're here. But does Heath's death take it another step?

I've been thinking mine will, or at least hoping it will. I've been trying to make sure I get things done that need to be done. Trying to remember what matters and not sweating the small stuff. Trying to resist getting sucked into family squabbles in order to keep my sights on the bigger picture.

Of course, maybe this is just the immediate effect of the shock, and it will wear off after a while.

But I guess what I'm saying is, does this tragedy change anything about how you want to live your life??

 

[nakymaton]

Well, I made a decision not to let friendships disappear. That's something.

[RouxB]

One of the major components of my grief-and my grief is preeettyy huge-is that life will change. So much of my time and energy and happiness has been Brokeback related and Brokeback without Heath and Jake takes on a whole new weightless dimension. They are my anchors and I just feel like I'm drifting right now-in a sea of disbelief and misery and uncertainty.

[SFEnnisSF]

I've just had three people die within 24 hours.  Jackie (Painted Shoes over on DCF), Heath, and my boss at work....  I'm still sortin' all this out and what it all means...  

[Front-Ranger]

Well, I made a decision not to let friendships disappear. That's something.

Yee-haw friend!!

[Lumière]

I am 28 years old and I have lost friends, relatives and acquaintances who were my age or younger.
I lost a cousin last year at 26.  I was in denial about it for weeks.  But he was truly gone.
There is no way that doesn't change you.

For me, death is always a reminder to keep things in perspective.  Always.  Nothing is promised or guaranteed and ideally, nothing should be taken for granted either.
There are so many little things we can get stuck on that keep us from living.  Petty things that we can do without.

Heath's life was short but I think he got on with it, living in the now.  I respect that.
That's the bottom line, I think.

[Jeff Wrangler]

My life is changing, but those changes have been going on for some time now, as I approach my 50th birthday this spring. I don't really think Heath's death will impact those changes.

It will impact my interaction with this community, however. As I just posted elsewhere, further discussions or arguments over the film, what this or that means, what motivates Ennis or Jack, suddenly seem irrelevant--even, perhaps oddly, kind of disrespectful. They just don't seem to matter any more. 

[Luvlylittlewing]

One of the major components of my grief-and my grief is preeettyy huge-is that life will change. So much of my time and energy and happiness has been Brokeback related and Brokeback without Heath and Jake takes on a whole new weightless dimension. They are my anchors and I just feel like I'm drifting right now-in a sea of disbelief and misery and uncertainty.

Jake is still with us, and for me, Heath lives on.  Such a huge talent will never die.  Give it time, RouxB!  Heath will never leave you! 

[Ellemeno]

 I've been trying to make sure I get things done that need to be done. Trying to remember what matters and not sweating the small stuff. Trying to resist getting sucked into family squabbles in order to keep my sights on the bigger picture.

Of course, maybe this is just the immediate effect of the shock, and it will wear off after a while.

Wow, all while I've been Googling Heath and channel surfing.  

[Brown Eyes]

I think I'm still too much in shock to be able to judge how things will change.  But they surely will.

It's especially hard to predict how the Brokie community as a whole will change... forever now.

Being here among friends is certainly a comfort.  And, that's really wonderful.  Thank goodness we can be here for each other at the moment.  I can't imagine trying to handle all the news reports, etc. on my own without BetterMost or the Brokie community as a group.
 

[BelAir]

I've just had three people die within 24 hours.  Jackie (Painted Shoes over on DCF), Heath, and my boss at work....  I'm still sortin' all this out and what it all means... 

[BelAir]

I am 28 years old and I have lost friends, relatives and acquaintances who were my age or younger.
I lost a cousin last year at 26.  I was in denial about it for weeks.  But he was truly gone.
There is no way that doesn't change you.

For me, death is always a reminder to keep things in perspective.  Always.  Nothing is promised or guaranteed and ideally, nothing should be taken for granted either.
There are so many little things we can get stuck on that keep us from living.  Petty things that we can do without.

Heath's life was short but I think he got on with it, living in the now.  I respect that.
That's the bottom line, I think.

yes, m, you are right.

there is no way things won't change.  but I think it will be an 'evolutionary' change, not a deterioration change, if that makes any sense.

[SFEnnisSF]

I am 28 years old and I have lost friends, relatives and acquaintances who were my age or younger.
I lost a cousin last year at 26.  I was in denial about it for weeks.  But he was truly gone.
There is no way that doesn't change you.

For me, death is always a reminder to keep things in perspective.  Always.  Nothing is promised or guaranteed and ideally, nothing should be taken for granted either.
There are so many little things we can get stuck on that keep us from living.  Petty things that we can do without.

Heath's life was short but I think he got on with it, living in the now.  I respect that.
That's the bottom line, I think.

Beautifully stated and true, Milli!  I think these are the things I'm learning today...

[SFEnnisSF]

Being here among friends is certainly a comfort.  And, that's really wonderful.  Thank goodness we can be here for each other at the moment.  I can't imagine trying to handle all the news reports, etc. on my own without BetterMost or the Brokie community as a group.
 

Agreed.  Me either Amanda.  

  

[Ellemeno]

Katherine, I know you meant more than this with your original question, but I just realized I'm going to watch all of Heath's movies now, even the ones (like Monster's Ball, The Order, and Candy) that I couldn't handle the first time.  I don't have the luxury of waiting for some future romantic comedy I wished for in the Heath Heath Heath thread last week.

[Brown Eyes]

Katherine, I know you meant more than this with your original question, but I just realized I'm going to watch all of Heath's movies now, even the ones (like Monster's Ball, The Order, and Candy) that I couldn't handle the first time.  I don't have the luxury of waiting for some future romantic comedy I wished for in the Heath Heath Heath thread last week.

Elle, I think watching Heath's movies is a tremendously fitting tribute to him.  Those films are truly his legacy (along with his daughter of course). And, watching, admiring and valuing the work he did in those movies I'm sure would (and always did) mean the world to him.

Watching Batman when it comes out will be hard.  Man.  But, I'll definitely go see it.

[Toycoon]

I think I'm still too much in shock to be able to judge how things will change.  But they surely will.

It's especially hard to predict how the Brokie community as a whole will change... forever now.

Being here among friends is certainly a comfort.  And, that's really wonderful.  Thank goodness we can be here for each other at the moment.  I can't imagine trying to handle all the news reports, etc. on my own without BetterMost or the Brokie community as a group.

I still remember what a wonderful experience it was after the BBQ when you, Lynne, Katherine, Clarissa, Mike, my boyfriend David and I watched Brokeback together and dissected every, fucken' inch of that movie even after having just watched it, two hours earlier. It was wonderful!

[Brown Eyes]

I still remember what a wonderful experience it was after the BBQ when you, Lynne, Katherine, Clarissa, Mike, my boyfriend David and I watched Brokeback together and dissected every, fucken' inch of that movie even after having just watched it, two hours earlier. It was wonderful!

I have so many wonderful memories of that trip.  And that viewing is certainly a great memory.  Yes, to me the simple act of watching Brokeback Mountain with good Brokie friends is one of life's pure joys. 

[Ellemeno]

I still remember what a wonderful experience it was after the BBQ when you, Lynne, Katherine, Clarissa, Mike, my boyfriend David and I watched Brokeback together and dissected every, fucken' inch of that movie even after having just watched it, two hours earlier. It was wonderful!

Oscar, that was on the sublime short list of my Brokie experiences.  

[serious crayons]

Oscar, that was on the sublime short list of my Brokie experiences. 

Mine too, Oscar. When I think of my peak Brokie experiences, that one is in the top few.

[BBM-Cat]

As I just posted elsewhere, further discussions or arguments over the film, what this or that means, what motivates Ennis or Jack, suddenly seem irrelevant--even, perhaps oddly, kind of disrespectful. They just don't seem to matter any more. 

Very well put Jeff. If anything positive comes out of the tragedy of Heath's death, it will help some of us refocus our energies and priorities in life.

[serious crayons]

As I just posted elsewhere, further discussions or arguments over the film, what this or that means, what motivates Ennis or Jack, suddenly seem irrelevant--even, perhaps oddly, kind of disrespectful. They just don't seem to matter any more. 

Very well put Jeff. If anything positive comes out of the tragedy of Heath's death, it will help some of us refocus our energies and priorities in life.

I have a slightly different view. On the one hand, I know what you both mean -- discussions of the tragedies experienced by fictional characters seem sort of trivial in the wake of a real-life tragedy. And sure, god knows I could stand to get some other things done in my life.

But on the other hand, we wouldn't even be here, paying attention to this, grieving Heath to this extent, if it weren't for all the other stuff. So that doesn't seem quite disrespectful.

And for me, though I've probably spent too much time socializing and chatting here, it has been an enormously educational experience, both socially and literarily (which my spell-check says isn't a word). I just finished reading a book called "How to Read Literature Like a Professor." A very good book, full of discussions of symbols and metaphors, etc. And what that author is talking about -- what literature professors spend their lives doing -- is one of the main things we've been doing here.

[souxi]

My life is changing, but those changes have been going on for some time now, as I approach my 50th birthday this spring. I don't really think Heath's death will impact those changes.

It will impact my interaction with this community, however. As I just posted elsewhere, further discussions or arguments over the film, what this or that means, what motivates Ennis or Jack, suddenly seem irrelevant--even, perhaps oddly, kind of disrespectful. They just don't seem to matter any more. 

Jeff I completly agree with you. I don,t know if you read any of my posts on the polling place(prays he didn,t) .
Some of my opinions were, errrm, quite forcefull shall I say lol.
Anyway, the point is, that I don,t really care now one way or the other. Tell me something. How can I be sitting here, missing someone who I never met, and more than likely would never meet? I,m loosing the plot.

[Brown Eyes]

I really think continuing to ponder, admire, discuss, etc. Brokeback is very key to honoring Heath's legacy.  It's his masterpiece.  I'm sure he would want serious consideration of Brokeback to continue.

I really don't believe it's "disrespectful" at all to continue to discuss Ennis and Jack.  In fact, I think it's quite the opposite.

It seems to me that Heath would want to know that Brokeback/Ennis is a type-of vehicle for immortalizing him.  I think artists always want their art to carry on.

I feel really strongly about this.

I actually think the notion of moving away from discussing Jack and Ennis is really depressing.  Following Heath's death, it really is my feeling that we should continue to honor those characters and continue to recognize how important Heath's role was in producing this amazing work of art.

[BBM-Cat]

But on the other hand, we wouldn't even be here, paying attention to this, grieving Heath to this extent, if it weren't for all the other stuff.

I definitely agree with you - I wouldn't have understood this movie nearly half as well without all of the many varied, thorough, and intelligent discussions this community has produced! And yes, all "the other stuff" is very important.

I really think continuing to ponder, admire, discuss, etc. Brokeback is very key to honoring Heath's legacy.   It's his masterpiece.  I'm sure he would want serious consideration of Brokeback to continue.

No doubt the spirit BBM and of Jack & Ennis will continue on this board, and it's impact will continue to extend throughout our lives. We are here to keep the legacy alive, and it is my hope that we will all continue to do so. My only contention is that Heath’s death will elicit a shifting of focus for some people, and that is a positive thing.

[serious crayons]

I really don't believe it's "disrespectful" at all to continue to discuss Ennis and Jack.  In fact, I think it's quite the opposite.

Right. Trying to put myself in the place of an artist who has died, I can't imagine thinking that people who spent a lot of time discussing and analyzing my work were being disrespectful to me. One of the great things about being an artist, I think, is knowing that your work will live on after you're gone.

[Dagi]

For me, death is always a reminder to keep things in perspective.  Always.  Nothing is promised or guaranteed and ideally, nothing should be taken for granted either.
There are so many little things we can get stuck on that keep us from living.  Petty things that we can do without.

So well put. So true. Although it helps us get through the day to take at least some things for granted (we´d spend way too much time worrying) it is always a good thing to get reminded every now and again that everything is fleeting.

[Brown Eyes]

Right. Trying to put myself in the place of an artist who has died, I can't imagine thinking that people who spent a lot of time discussing and analyzing my work were being disrespectful to me. One of the great things about being an artist, I think, is knowing that your work will live on after you're gone.

This is absolutely how I feel.  Continuing to honor Brokeback with serious consideration is true tribute to Heath.

I think artists often hope that their art will endure and create a little bit of immortality.  Our vision/image of Ennis will really never change.  And Heath has given us this embodiment of Proulx's character.  The fact that Ennis remains with us - in that film and etched in our minds by Heath- is really an extraordinary thing.  It's part of the magic of art.  I think.

Great artists pass away all the time.  In art history and film history this does not stop people from discussing their work.  The list of examples is of course enormous.  Just think of any famous artist or actor who has passed away.  Often an artist's death actually throws a spotlight on just how important their work really was (a sad irony of how art sometimes works).

I'm writing this post from my office in an art museum.  And, I have to stay here late for the opening reception for my most recent exhibition.  All of the artists in this exhibition (51 different people) are dead... and the continuing scholarship on and appreciation of their art most definitely endures.

I just don't believe that Heath would want his most devoted Brokies to move on from a continued consideration of BBM.  

Essentially, I don't think we should feel at all guilty about talking about Ennis and Jack, the way we love so much. I really can't think of any way that that continuation would be disrespectful to Heath's memory.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I really don't believe it's "disrespectful" at all to continue to discuss Ennis and Jack.  In fact, I think it's quite the opposite.

Sure enough. The emphasis in my comment was really supposed to be on the "argument" part. What I had in mind particularly when I initially wrote that were some of the very emphatic differences of opinion over subjects such as the extent of Ennis's internalized homophobia, or when he came to understand that he really loved Jack, for example.

The idea of continuing to argue over subjects such as that, when the actor who so fully brought the character to life has died so tragically, seems irrelevant and just does not sit well with me.

[Brown Eyes]

Hi Jeff,

I'm sure your right that the tone and nuance of Brokeback discussions will change after this.  At least for a while.

And, at this exact moment, it is sort of hard to think about anything beyond Heath and the process of grieving.  But, I hope at some point to be able to go back (relatively soon, actually) to thinking more about Brokeback again.

I haven't watched the movie since Heath's death yet.  But I plan to watch it this weekend.  I'm sure it will be a whole new, and extraordinary experience.  It was sad before... but now.  Geez, I think it will be incredible.

 

[serious crayons]

Something about this conversation made me think about other famous artists who died young, like Percy Shelley (29) and John Keats (25). I googled it and found a list on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_people_who_died_young


Heath is already on it.

 

[Brown Eyes]

Something about this conversation made me think about other famous artists who died young, like Percy Shelley (29) and John Keats (25). I googled it and found a list on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_people_who_died_young


Heath is already on it.

 

 

[Lumière]

{{Katherine}}  {{Amanda}}


~M

[Penthesilea]

Something about this conversation made me think about other famous artists who died young, like Percy Shelley (29) and John Keats (25). I googled it and found a list on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_people_who_died_young


Heath is already on it.

 

Someone said today or even yesterday, that on wikipedia they already changed Heath's entry. I just had a look at the list Katherine posted the link to, and it hurts. I then clicked on Heath name, but shut down the site after reading the very first sentence: ...was and Academy award nominated Australian actor...

It hurts so much reading of Heath in past tense.
 

[Kd5000]

Well the saying "make each day count" has more reasonace now with me then ever before.  Don't know if it will change my life, I'll just appreciate it more.

I'm glad Heath enjoyed much success and joy in his short life.

I nearly exploded at the video store today when I mentioned Heath Ledger and the clerk working there responded by saying "to much money and fame too soon..."

[nakymaton]

I haven't watched the movie since Heath's death yet.  But I plan to watch it this weekend.  I'm sure it will be a whole new, and extraordinary experience.  It was sad before... but now.  Geez, I think it will be incredible.

I haven't watched in more than a year. Maybe in more than a year and a half. I can't remember.

I had been thinking about watching it again. I was thinking about it on Tuesday, actually, while driving home...

At the time, I didn't realize that Heath was dead.  

I don't think I could watch it alone, though.

[Penthesilea]

I haven't watched in more than a year. Maybe in more than a year and a half. I can't remember.

I had been thinking about watching it again. I was thinking about it on Tuesday, actually, while driving home...

At the time, I didn't realize that Heath was dead.  

I don't think I could watch it alone, though.

(((Mel)))

Through it all, it is still good to see you back here. 


I had planned to watch BBM this weekend. This was before the horrible news. I guess I won't do it now. I think it will be a while before I will be able to see it again.
And just in opposite to you, Mel, I will make sure to watch it alone, so I won't have to hold back whatever emotions will come up.

[Artiste]

Like some or all, be assured that I am very sad of Heath's passing.

However, it saddens me to read that some will not see the BM movie or Annie's story... it seems nor study those.

To me, I will respect Heath since he had the guts to do Ennis, and therefore, talk more about brilliant role he did for us all here on Earth!! Since that is his humanity he wanted to league to us all, I feel!!

Heath could have refused the role, like most so-called men would have; so He prays us for being what-we-are: LOVE like he was for himself and for us all too!!

Hugs!!

[BelAir]

Sure enough. The emphasis in my comment was really supposed to be on the "argument" part. What I had in mind particularly when I initially wrote that were some of the very emphatic differences of opinion over subjects such as the extent of Ennis's internalized homophobia, or when he came to understand that he really loved Jack, for example.

The idea of continuing to argue over subjects such as that, when the actor who so fully brought the character to life has died so tragically, seems irrelevant and just does not sit well with me.

I agree with you Jeff, the feeling of "arguing" just doesn't seem right.

[Luvlylittlewing]

I really think continuing to ponder, admire, discuss, etc. Brokeback is very key to honoring Heath's legacy.  It's his masterpiece.  I'm sure he would want serious consideration of Brokeback to continue.

I really don't believe it's "disrespectful" at all to continue to discuss Ennis and Jack.  In fact, I think it's quite the opposite.

It seems to me that Heath would want to know that Brokeback/Ennis is a type-of vehicle for immortalizing him.  I think artists always want their art to carry on.

I feel really strongly about this.

I actually think the notion of moving away from discussing Jack and Ennis is really depressing.  Following Heath's death, it really is my feeling that we should continue to honor those characters and continue to recognize how important Heath's role was in producing this amazing work of art.

I couldn't agree with you more!

[Luvlylittlewing]

This is absolutely how I feel.  Continuing to honor Brokeback with serious consideration is true tribute to Heath.

I think artists often hope that their art will endure and create a little bit of immortality.  Our vision/image of Ennis will really never change.  And Heath has given us this embodiment of Proulx's character.  The fact that Ennis remains with us - in that film and etched in our minds by Heath- is really an extraordinary thing.  It's part of the magic of art.  I think.

Great artists pass away all the time.  In art history and film history this does not stop people from discussing their work.  The list of examples is of course enormous.  Just think of any famous artist or actor who has passed away.  Often an artist's death actually throws a spotlight on just how important their work really was (a sad irony of how art sometimes works).

I'm writing this post from my office in an art museum.  And, I have to stay here late for the opening reception for my most recent exhibition.  All of the artists in this exhibition (51 different people) are dead... and the continuing scholarship on and appreciation of their art most definitely endures.

I just don't believe that Heath would want his most devoted Brokies to move on from a continued consideration of BBM.  

Essentially, I don't think we should feel at all guilty about talking about Ennis and Jack, the way we love so much. I really can't think of any way that that continuation would be disrespectful to Heath's memory.

Very well said!

[Luvlylittlewing]

Sure enough. The emphasis in my comment was really supposed to be on the "argument" part. What I had in mind particularly when I initially wrote that were some of the very emphatic differences of opinion over subjects such as the extent of Ennis's internalized homophobia, or when he came to understand that he really loved Jack, for example.

The idea of continuing to argue over subjects such as that, when the actor who so fully brought the character to life has died so tragically, seems irrelevant and just does not sit well with me.

Jeff, I think Heath, and every one associated with BBM would feel honored that the work inspires such passion.  A lesser work would be ignored!

[Jeff Wrangler]

Jeff, I think Heath, and every one associated with BBM would feel honored that the work inspires such passion.  A lesser work would be ignored!

I'm not quite sure how to take this comment.    I don't want to read too much into it, but quite frankly I feel vaguely like I'm being accused of something, but I'm not exactly sure what. That I don't know that the film makers, cast included, know that Brokeback Mountain has inspired passion in its fans?

Nobody, me included, said anything about ignoring the film, nor about no longer discussing it. And I certainly didn't say that there was anything wrong with the passion the film has inspired. Nor would I say there is anything wrong with continuing to discuss Heath's artistry or his performance. But in light of the sobering slap of reality of Heath's death, some of the things that have been discussed--argued--about the characters of this film over the past two years no longer seem to matter to me. And to continue to argue over issues such as as the old debate over whether Ennis and Jack were gay or bisexual, for example, just doesn't seem right to me. It just seems somehow disrespectful and maybe even a bit vulgar.

But by all means we should honor Heath by continuing to admire his performance and his artistry. I never said we shouldn't.

[serious crayons]

I'm not quite sure how to take this comment.    I don't want to read too much into it, but quite frankly I feel vaguely like I'm being accused of something, but I'm not exactly sure what.

Jeff, I don't want to speak for littlewing, but I see she's offline right now and you're on, so I'm just going to jump in and say I know her quite well from imdb and she's one of Brokiedom's nicest people -- not the accusing kind. I suspect she was just being supportive of Heath.

Littlewing, please let me know if I've mischaracterized your post.

I see what you're saying, Jeff, about the difference between discussing the movie and arguing about relatively trivial differences of opinion about this or that detail or nuance. I think for some people, those debates are the lifeblood of their discussions, and they don't necessarily see them as a negative or disrespectful. But I can see where it would make some people -- you, among others, I'm sure -- uncomfortable as being trivial topics in the wake of a real-life tragedy. We all have to grieve/mourn/memorialize/recover in our own ways, I guess.

 

[Ellemeno]

We all have to grieve/mourn/memorialize/recover in our own ways, I guess.

 

I have been thinking this today and that it's important to remember that.  I am going to give an example, I hope atz75 won't mind.

Amanda and I were in chat, and she said she really doesn't want to see Heath in other movies, and that she is going to watch BBM very soon.  I said that I, on the contrary, do not want to watch BBM anytime soon, but would love to see some other Heath movies as soon as possible.  She is one of my dearest friends here, and we have different needs/urges around this.  A small example.

Anyway, I hope we can hold our love and patience for each other, when we are feeling hurt and impatient with the reality we have been smacked with this week.

Love,

Clarissa

[serious crayons]

Anyway, I hope we can hold our love and patience for each other, when we are feeling hurt and impatient with the reality we have been smacked with this week.

So true.

I'm wondering whether I can watch BBM anytime soon or not. I think I'm a little closer to Amanda's view. On the one hand, I'd rather see Heath as Ennis than Heath as Casanova, pseudo Bob Dylan, Candy's junkie boyfriend, etc. But on the other hand, I think I probably can't eat no cake right now.

How do y'all feel about watching it now? Has anybody watched it since ... Tuesday? How'd it go?

[belbbmfan]

I'd really like to watch it. I feel like I need to. I'm not sure why. Maybe I need to hear Ennis say 'getting tired of your dumbass missin', I don't know. Maybe I'll switch if off after ten minutes.

I just don't want to feel I've lost BBM too. It's Heath's legacy to all of us.

I was listening to BBM radio earlier today and heard parts of the BBM score. I found it soothing.

  

[serious crayons]

I heard "The Wings" over some TV clip or other, and burst into tears.

 

Yep, probably too soon for me to watch the whole thing.

[belbbmfan]

I heard "The Wings" over some TV clip or other, and burst into tears.

 

Yep, probably too soon for me to watch the whole thing.

Well, over here, Heath's death (those two words together are FOREVER going to feel 'wrong') is a non issue. It was on the radio news wednesday morning. It was on the tv news at night. And that was it. There were a few articles in my newspaper (one page long tribute which was nice) but nothing more. So, I haven't come across anything BBM by accident. It just isn't there.

Which makes it all even more 'unreal' at times.

hugs to you.

[nakymaton]

I'm glad I saw I'm Not There while Heath was still alive, and while I could appreciate it as a movie.

BBM has always been about grief (as well as other things) for me, so the outright bawling might feel cathartic.

But mostly I'm too numb to watch movies at the moment.

(I also have not run across a single mention of Heath's death in RL. Partly that's because I don't watch TV, and I haven't been in any checkout lines to see People or EW. Partly it's because it was an event of only passing significance to everyone else in my world. Surreal.)

[souxi]

I'm not quite sure how to take this comment.    I don't want to read too much into it, but quite frankly I feel vaguely like I'm being accused of something, but I'm not exactly sure what. That I don't know that the film makers, cast included, know that Brokeback Mountain has inspired passion in its fans?

Nobody, me included, said anything about ignoring the film, nor about no longer discussing it. And I certainly didn't say that there was anything wrong with the passion the film has inspired. Nor would I say there is anything wrong with continuing to discuss Heath's artistry or his performance. But in light of the sobering slap of reality of Heath's death, some of the things that have been discussed--argued--about the characters of this film over the past two years no longer seem to matter to me. And to continue to argue over issues such as as the old debate over whether Ennis and Jack were gay or bisexual, for example, just doesn't seem right to me. It just seems somehow disrespectful and maybe even a bit vulgar.

But by all means we should honor Heath by continuing to admire his performance and his artistry. I never said we shouldn't.

I have said it before and I,ll say it again. I,m in full agreement with you Jeff. It really doesn,t matter any more does it? If Jack and Ennis were bi or gay, or if Jack was really murdered etc. Who cares?  I won,t say that I,ve sat and howled my eyes out, because  havn,t. I,ve had tears in my eyes, certainly, but, today, all day, I,ve just been really down in the dumps and I just can,t shake it off. I didn,t even know Heath, and never would, but it,s just so sad. RIP brown eyes. xxxxx

[Brown Eyes]

It's really interesting to watch our community go through this grieving process together.  As a group experience (here online at least... probably alone a lot in real life). 

We'll go through all the different stages of grief together too I think.  Shock, sadness (maybe a bit of depression), anger, irritability...

(I'm not actually 100% sure of all the technical stages).  But at the end, we'll move through the grief and hopefully find some healing and acceptance together.  It's amazing how much this theme of grief really is a major Brokeback theme.  And, I think all of us have learned a lot about the concept of grief through all our attention to Brokeback.

As I said in chat last night... I think there will be a "new normal" around here following this huge event.

And, Elle, yes, I completely agree with what you said and your example from chat last night.  We all need to go through this process on our own terms to a certain extent.  And, it will simply be interesting to witness all of our different processes as they become evident here at BetterMost.  We'll need to be patient with each other when we differ in how we're each responding to the grief in different ways.  And, I'm sure our individual responses will evolve a bit as time goes on too.

[Luvlylittlewing]

I'm not quite sure how to take this comment.    I don't want to read too much into it, but quite frankly I feel vaguely like I'm being accused of something, but I'm not exactly sure what. That I don't know that the film makers, cast included, know that Brokeback Mountain has inspired passion in its fans?

Nobody, me included, said anything about ignoring the film, nor about no longer discussing it. And I certainly didn't say that there was anything wrong with the passion the film has inspired. Nor would I say there is anything wrong with continuing to discuss Heath's artistry or his performance. But in light of the sobering slap of reality of Heath's death, some of the things that have been discussed--argued--about the characters of this film over the past two years no longer seem to matter to me. And to continue to argue over issues such as as the old debate over whether Ennis and Jack were gay or bisexual, for example, just doesn't seem right to me. It just seems somehow disrespectful and maybe even a bit vulgar.

But by all means we should honor Heath by continuing to admire his performance and his artistry. I never said we shouldn't.

Jeff, I didn't mean to offend.  I'm so distraught over Heath's death that perhaps I shouldn't comment until I get myself together.  I would never accuse you of anything -- that is not my intention.  I really want to apologize to you.  Please forgive me.  I suppose I read your post and thought that you wouldn't want to discuss the movie anymore, and I became rather upset, as I really enjoy your writing.  As I said, I should really refrain from making comments until my head is clearer.  Again, I apologize, and I hope I'm making sense.

[Luvlylittlewing]

Jeff, I don't want to speak for littlewing, but I see she's offline right now and you're on, so I'm just going to jump in and say I know her quite well from imdb and she's one of Brokiedom's nicest people -- not the accusing kind. I suspect she was just being supportive of Heath.

Littlewing, please let me know if I've mischaracterized your post.

I see what you're saying, Jeff, about the difference between discussing the movie and arguing about relatively trivial differences of opinion about this or that detail or nuance. I think for some people, those debates are the lifeblood of their discussions, and they don't necessarily see them as a negative or disrespectful. But I can see where it would make some people -- you, among others, I'm sure -- uncomfortable as being trivial topics in the wake of a real-life tragedy. We all have to grieve/mourn/memorialize/recover in our own ways, I guess.

 

Thanks, Babe.  You're right.  I didn't mean to accuse Jeff of anything,  I would never do that.  If I said something wrong it came from my head, not from my heart.  I already apologized to jeff, and I hope he forgives me.

And thanks for trying to clarify things.  I really appreciate it.

[serious crayons]

Jeff, I didn't mean to offend.  I'm so distraught over Heath's death that perhaps I shouldn't comment until I get myself together.  I would never accuse you of anything -- that is not my intention.  I really want to apologize to you.  Please forgive me.  I suppose I read your post and thought that you wouldn't want to discuss the movie anymore, and I became rather upset, as I really enjoy your writing.  As I said, I should really refrain from making comments until my head is clearer.  Again, I apologize, and I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks, Babe.  You're right.  I didn't mean to accuse Jeff of anything,  I would never do that.  If I said something wrong it came from my head, not from my heart.  I already apologized to jeff, and I hope he forgives me.

And thanks for trying to clarify things.  I really appreciate it.

she's one of Brokiedom's nicest people

See what I mean? 

[Luvlylittlewing]

See what I mean? 

You have made my day!  I love you, Sweets! 

[Ellemeno]

See what I mean? 

That's what I was thinking. 

[BelAir]

I'd really like to watch it. I feel like I need to. I'm not sure why. Maybe I need to hear Ennis say 'getting tired of your dumbass missin', I don't know. Maybe I'll switch if off after ten minutes.

I just don't want to feel I've lost BBM too. It's Heath's legacy to all of us.

I was listening to BBM radio earlier today and heard parts of the BBM score. I found it soothing.

  

I am feeling like fabienne, that I need to watch it.  (When I initially heard the news of Heath's death, I was someone who questioned whether they could watch it again.)  It is what brought me here.  If I had never watched that movie, I wouldn't be feeling all that I am feeling now.  I think watching it again will somehow help to put me back together, if that makes any sense.

[malina]

I am feeling like fabienne, that I need to watch it.  (When I initially heard the news of Heath's death, I was someone who questioned whether they could watch it again.)  It is what brought me here.  If I had never watched that movie, I wouldn't be feeling all that I am feeling now.  I think watching it again will somehow help to put me back together, if that makes any sense.

I kind of did the opposite... when I first heard, I knew immediately that I had to watch it, in Heath's memory. But I haven't yet, and as time goes on, I'm feeling less brave about it. I still think I will, though, and soon. At this point, I don't know if it will help put me back together, or pull me apart, but in a way, either seems like a good thing.

When I was listening to music on my iPod today, I noticed something odd... the songs that I used to listen to a lot, before, and that have nothing at all to do with Heath or death or BBM... those are the ones I cannot now listen to. I don't want to move on to something different, that doesn't include this person and this experience... I don't want to go back to the types of things I used to think about before. Not even for the length of a song. It's just too soon, I think.

But on the other hand... and this is my answer to Katherine's original question...  the evening of the day that Heath died, I just sat under a blanket on the sofa for a couple of hours, all numb, and watched whatever happened to be on TV, and I don't remember much of it except for one line. I was watching an episode of 'House', and they had a patient who was angry at the doctors because it turned out he was NOT going to die, contrary to an earlier diagnosis. And one of the doctors... I can't remember his name... said to House: "Dying is easy. Living is the hard thing".

I don't necessarily agree with the first part, and it almost seems like a callous statement if applied to Heath, and that' s not how I'm applying it... I don't think his dying was 'easy', and I don't think he wanted to go or had any choice about it. But I understand the second part...'Living is the hard thing'... really living... not the kind of existance where you try to get away with half-living, with being less than conscious of what's going on around you.

So, with that resonating inside my head, I got up from the sofa and did my taxes. Not my 2007 ones... no, not early... late... my 2006 taxes, which I had been avoiding and avoiding, at least in part because, well, in 2006, when I got completely obsessed with BBM and posting on IMDB, my self-employment income took such and enormous and self-inflicted dive, and it was messy and bad and I just didn't want to revisit it. But I did. I just sat down and got it all done, on the night of Heath's death, because, well, 'living is hard'.

Living is hard, and we have no choice. And I don't believe Heath had any choice about his dying, and that's hard too... incredibly so... and it seems almost random, what we will or will not be given, but whatever it is, I think we have a duty to life, and to all the beautiful moments and beautiful people of life, to just stick with it and get it done.

So, that's how my life will change now. I will deal with all the hard sh it without hiding. That's the plan, anyway.

I know I am babbling on and on for someone who has barely posted here before. I must be feeling at home 

[serious crayons]

I know I am babbling on and on for someone who has barely posted here before. I must be feeling at home 

Yay, welcome home. And babble away! Your "babblings" are always worth reading, Malina. For example:

So, with that resonating inside my head, I got up from the sofa and did my taxes. Not my 2007 ones... no, not early... late... my 2006 taxes, which I had been avoiding and avoiding, at least in part because, well, in 2006, when I got completely obsessed with BBM and posting on IMDB, my self-employment income took such and enormous and self-inflicted dive, and it was messy and bad and I just didn't want to revisit it. But I did. I just sat down and got it all done, on the night of Heath's death, because, well, 'living is hard'.

That is exactly what I was trying to say in my opening post, in which I was babbling about getting things done, the big picture, etc. It's not quite like Heath's passing has inspired me to straighten up my desk/keep my checkbook balanced/floss daily. That stuff sounds so mundane. It kind of manifests itself in things like that, but in reality it's more than that.

There is something about this experience that has prompted me to take another look at what I'm doing with my life. I know, that's what BBM was supposed to have done in the first place, but to some extent it's been the opposite. I've put my life on hold for almost two f'in years.

So maybe it's this: I'm taking things more seriously now. I'll think, as I always do, "Oh, I should do blah blah blah ..." but instead of just shrugging it off, now I'm more likely to follow up with, "Well, why not just DO it, then? Just face up to it! It's not going away, and my life will be better and I'll feel better if I do." Like I said, maybe it won't last forever. But I'm going to take advantage of it while it lasts. Even if, for now, it just means addressing the little, immediate things, like getting my desk straightened up.

So I'm glad you used the example of your 2006 tax returns. Because that's just the kind of thing I'm talking about. And I'm hoping that once I get that stuff done, the bigger stuff will follow.

I think we have a duty to life, and to all the beautiful moments and beautiful people of life, to just stick with it and get it done.

Yup.

[malina]

Hi Katherine... Thank you for 'getting' it... that's exactly what I meant. There's just something about that fact that someone so young and so talented has died so... so randomly, really.. that reinforces the duty to life that the rest of us have. And my realization is that that duty is not just to love, and to enjoy life, which I pretty much was doing anyway, but also to... take care of things.

Maybe that comes from the feeling that I have and can't shake, that there should have been someone taking care of Heath, when he was alone in that apartment. But in order to take care of each other, we have to be strong, ourselves.. strong and clear and resourceful and not dragged down by stuff or blinded to reality. I feel like, if we can do that, and also remain open-hearted as BBM taught us, then that's the best we can do. And it still won't be enough to eliminate horrible things happening, like  people dying too soon, but since NOTHING can eliminate that, facing the life we've been given is the best we can do.

That's some of the meaning behind my personal "Heath, I swear". The rest of it has something to do with how Heath never shied away from using his talent to its fullest, taking on challenging roles... that is a brilliant example to all of us, I think.

[Ellemeno]

Malina, I'm glad to see you.  Clarissa

[Brown Eyes]

Hey Buds,

Malina, your posts here are really thoughtful.  Thanks so much for feeling comfortable enough here to share things like this with us.  That quotation from House, "Dying is easy. Living is the hard thing" is really profound.  It's profound for the situation that's happening now for sure... and it's so relevant to BBM too.  We see how hard it is to be Ennis, the survivor.  And, we can imagine how hard it must have been to be Rich.  Grief, regret and loss are just such difficult things to handle, and it certainly carries over to this current experience trying to cope with the loss of Heath.




I just finished watching Brokeback about ah hour ago.  For me, I'm very glad I did.  I can certainly understand that deciding to watch it/not-watch it under the current circumstances is a very personal decision.  I was definitely nervous before I started watching it.  I mean genuinely nervous.  And, it really reminded me of my emotions when I went to see BBM in the theatre way at the very beginning of my journey as a Brokie.  I was always a tad nervous when I would go into a theatre to watch it.  And tonight, I didn't rewind or do anything other than just watch it straight through.

Watching tonight was very cathartic and was really like seeing the movie with fresh eyes in certain ways.  The film had all of it's intensity back, which had admittedly mellowed a bit for me after so many viewings over so long a period of time.  I cried... and I mean really cried at certain moments and even at some new moments this time.  But, it was a nice kind of crying.  And, while it was like viewing the film with fresh eyes on the one hand, it was also like visiting with old friends.  It was just plain nice to see Ennis in all his vividness... and to get completely absorbed by the characters and the story. 

The end with the shirts has an intensity to it tonight that really is like the first few viewings. 

And, tonight it struck me more than ever how hugely intimate the motel scene is... and how sad it gets so quickly.  When Ennis says "I'm stuck with what I got here" and gets the tear in his eye and Jack falls silent... geez.  I mean I've always been aware of these things, but tonight it sort of knocked me out.

The dozy embrace, always, without fail makes me cry... but tonight the final bit of that flashback is the one thing that's almost too much to take, given the current situation with losing Heath.  "See you in the morning" combined with the image of Ennis walking away and getting on his horse without looking back...
 

And one line really rang out with huge significance tonight in this viewing... "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." 


All that said, it really was a comforting experience for me.  Really like seeing old friends.  And, on a lighter note, I even jotted down a few new observations of details, etc. to post in Open Forum later on.  I almost always find myself searching for new details, etc. when I watch now.  It's almost an instinct at this point.



Hope you're all doing well Friends.
 

[serious crayons]

That's some of the meaning behind my personal "Heath, I swear". The rest of it has something to do with how Heath never shied away from using his talent to its fullest, taking on challenging roles... that is a brilliant example to all of us, I think.

That's what I was thinking, too. He's an inspiration. Just when he could have made millions going the usual route -- pretty-boy roles, explosion movies -- he went in a different direction. And it's because he dared to take a "risky" role (a role that's making him controversial even in death  ), he created something so, so much more valuable.

He didn't stand it, he fixed it.

The dozy embrace, always, without fail makes me cry... but tonight the final bit of that flashback is the one thing that's almost too much to take, given the current situation with losing Heath.  "See you in the morning" combined with the image of Ennis walking away and getting on his horse without looking back...
 

Thank you so much for the report, Bud. It's nice to know you got through it OK and found it rewarding, even. What you said above -- the dozy embrace is always the Scene Most Likely to Make Me Cry. And it's that line -- "See you in the mornin" -- already so freighted with meaning just in the movie alone. And now ... 

Anyway, I'm glad you're going to post new viewing observations in the OF. I'll look for them. Actually, I had a little mini-idea myself tonight -- somebody posted something about the apple-pie scene, and that made me think of something. It wasn't quite worth a whole thread on its own, but I wanted to post it somewhere ... and then I didn't. Because, well, you know.

Actually, just now I had an idea. What if we started a whole new thread for movie discussions? I mean, it doesn't have to say right in the title that it's A.H. But in a way, with people's sensitivities so heightened, I wonder if it might make sense to start a whole new place new where people who wanted to could just carefully, gingerly discuss the movie or story in whatever ways still make sense to them. Away from the old arguments, debates about Lureen's pregnancy or Jack's death  or, as Jeff said, about whether they're gay or bi, and onto some new level. It could be kind of meandering. No need to stay on topic, as long as generally it's still about the movie/story.

Just thinkin out loud.

[Brown Eyes]

Anyway, I'm glad you're going to post new viewing observations in the OF. I'll look for them. Actually, I had a little mini-idea myself tonight -- somebody posted something about the apple-pie scene, and that made me think of something. It wasn't quite worth a whole thread on its own, but I wanted to post it somewhere ... and then I didn't. Because, well, you know.

Actually, just now I had an idea. What if we started a whole new thread for movie discussions? I mean, it doesn't have to say right in the title that it's A.H. But in a way, with people's sensitivities so heightened, I wonder if it might make sense to start a whole new place new where people who wanted to could just carefully, gingerly discuss the movie or story in whatever ways still make sense to them. Away from the old arguments, debates about Lureen's pregnancy or Jack's death  or, as Jeff said, about whether they're gay or bi, and onto some new level. It could be kind of meandering. No need to stay on topic, as long as generally it's still about the movie/story.

Hey Friend.

  I will definitely post my new observations in OF tomorrow.  I'm too sleepy to tackle that right now.  But, I literally did write down a few notes to use in Open Forum later... I'm so silly about BBM, I often do that actually.  And, tonight it was sort of nice to realize that urge was still there for me.

I think it might be great to have a thread in OF devoted to just this very question... how to move on with Brokeback discussions following this tragedy... or a thread about how our interpretations of BBM are now changed or heightened, etc. following the loss of Heath.  It might be nice for folks to discuss and work-through this exact question together.

And, yes, there are just so many things in that film that resonate so profoundly with the real grief we're going through now.  It's a pretty remarkable situation.  Anyway, it was nice to see Ennis tonight.  It really was.

[malina]

atz75... what you said, about how now we get to see how hard it is to be Ennis... for some reason, I never thought about it quite that way before. But, at least in some measure, that's true. And the fact that Heath was the one who showed us Ennis... there's a symmetry to that.

I've always said that Ennis was 'everyman', and that's why so many of us relate to him. So now we get to finish the journey.

Katherine, I think there's definitely a place for a thread on A.H. movie discussions. For all the reasons you said, which I can't repeat and don't have in front of me, but I think you're right.

[Ellemeno]

Katherine, I think there's definitely a place for a thread on A.H. movie discussions.

A.H.   

[malina]

A.H.   

I know... 
It just doesn't seem real, but in a way, putting it that way makes it seem more real..

[Dagi]

Hi Katherine... Thank you for 'getting' it... that's exactly what I meant. There's just something about that fact that someone so young and so talented has died so... so randomly, really.. that reinforces the duty to life that the rest of us have. And my realization is that that duty is not just to love, and to enjoy life, which I pretty much was doing anyway, but also to... take care of things.

Maybe that comes from the feeling that I have and can't shake, that there should have been someone taking care of Heath, when he was alone in that apartment. But in order to take care of each other, we have to be strong, ourselves.. strong and clear and resourceful and not dragged down by stuff or blinded to reality. I feel like, if we can do that, and also remain open-hearted as BBM taught us, then that's the best we can do. And it still won't be enough to eliminate horrible things happening, like  people dying too soon, but since NOTHING can eliminate that, facing the life we've been given is the best we can do.

That's some of the meaning behind my personal "Heath, I swear". The rest of it has something to do with how Heath never shied away from using his talent to its fullest, taking on challenging roles... that is a brilliant example to all of us, I think.

Thank you for this thoughtful, inspiring post, Malina!

Dagi