Author Topic: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)  (Read 84224 times)

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #260 on: February 08, 2008, 05:56:25 am »
If you think that's upsetting, beware -- here's the original NY Post article it's referring to. I saw the women on The View talking about it this morning with disgust, and wondered where they'd seen it. They just referred to seeing it in "the paper," but didn't say which one.

Two themes come out of this article for me.  The first is the selfish angle, which basically means "how dare he go and die".  Of course she directs this toward Matilda, Michelle, and his parents but really, what does she care if his close friends and family have a less happy or fulfilling life because he's gone?  At best I think this could be called a rant.  There are others also (even here) who are delighting in their self righteous dissection of his poor judgement.  Sentiments alluding to "he was stupid for getting in the situation in the first place and because he brazenly didn't follow the directions then he deserves what happened" and presumably we shouldn't mourn so much.  At this point I'm thinking: who appointed her (or them) judge?  The second theme that follows is a lament of how stupid we've all been to think he was someone to admire.  Lots of nasty rhetoric suggesting that he was obviously an irresponsible drug taker and destined for disaster - and there's the conspiracy of "nice people" saying "nice things" about him - disgusting indeed!

Clearly this woman hasn't an ounce of compassion in her.  He's dead right?  That's about as punished as you can get!  But really, whether someone dies intentionally or by accident, it's just not good form to ram the point home that "he deserves what he got, for what he did was nothing short of irresponsible".  I'm thinking that these the same sad people who'd walk up to a burn victim and gasp "my god you're ugly" and then looking at the shocked people nearby, innocently asking "what"?

IMO these people are not wise or helpful, they are simply sad.  They may be right about some things.  Good for them.  But if the information they offer does not help the situation (or the world) then why would anyone take any of their nonesense on board?  And when they rhetort with "just because I'm being an asshole doesn't mean I'm not right" I simply ask:  Good for you for being so right.  Aren't you clever?  Do you want a medal... or a chest to pin it on? ::)
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Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #261 on: February 08, 2008, 06:12:19 am »
what does she care if his close friends and family have a less happy or fulfilling life because he's gone?  At best I think this could be called a rant.  There are others also (even here) who are delighting in their self righteous dissection of his poor judgement. 

For as long as people have been dying, there have been people who seem to want to climb on a dead man's casket as a soapbox for their personal agendas.  This is no different than Fred Phelp's clan, just a different agenda. 

The lack of empathy does make one wonder whether she meets diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 10:23:33 am by TOoP/Bruce »
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #262 on: February 08, 2008, 07:11:02 am »
This is another article somehow along the same lines as the NY Post. I'm not going to quote it, and I'm telling everyone to Beware right now before clicking the link - it's not happy reading for a grieving Heathen.  :-\  :-\


http://chud.com/articles/articles/13543/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-THE-DIRTY-DOUBLE-STANDARD/Page1.html

It bemoans a perceived double standard in actually showing Heath respect and treating his loss with humanity and dignity in the press, and apparently advocates that because other celebrities are treated callously and nastily in the media, Heath deserved nothing more.  ::) :-\ Then goes on about the drug use along the same lines as NY Post.

I've read these articles, and RossInIllinois's posts too, with a sort of confused and sad bewilderment.

They may or may not be right in what the claim about Heath's excessive prescription drug use, we'll never know. We don't need to know, at the end of the day, it's none of our bloody business.  But whether or not, I just don't understand all the spite and anger, directed at a man who has payed the ultimate price for the prescription drug use, however it came about and no matter the reason.

A wonderful man has died, way before his time - in me that calls for compassion, reflection.... grief.

Yes, I think most of all I'm baffled and stunned at the total lack of compassion in these articles.
If these people were right, if Heath really did "misuse" excessivley, deliberately - and repeatedly - then he must have been in pain, emotional and physical - must not have been in a good place at all....and he paid the highest price in trying to do something about it, in trying to make things better. Yet they don't think him deserving of compassion and affection. It's as if they can't forgive him for being human, for not being perfect in his every choice in life, for making a fatal mistake.

I don't know. I just can't for the life of me understand how it's possible to not mainly mourn Heath, and to show respect and compassion for him and his loved ones, in this tragic situation. Whether or not he had any degree of "guilt" in what happened surely is entirely beside the point now. It doesn't make the ultimate tragedy less, doesn't make it possible to dismiss it. And thinking so certainly doesn't make it OK to lambast Heath, put him down and mock him. It's bordering on inhuman: Total lack of respect, human decency and - I'll say it again - compassion.


I hope this phase will pass very soon, so that focus turns to Heath's legacy and what he achieved. That's all I can say.

Offline souxi

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #263 on: February 08, 2008, 07:33:01 am »
Mikaela I totally agree 100% with everything you,ve said there. Very well put.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #264 on: February 08, 2008, 09:55:45 am »
Well said, Chris, Bruce and Mika.

At what point do you feel people have to be held accountable for there own actions?  Accidents do happen yes, but people must also be held accountable for what they do to make them happen as well.

OK, Ross, so go ahead and hold him accountable. How exactly do you suggest doing this? Let's see, he's already dead -- what further penalties do you consider to be in order?

Ross, I'm not sure you're understanding what people are saying here. The point is that Heath is dead, it's tragic, he was young and talented and had a daughter and long life ahead of him. People are grieving, and whether or not we know -- or think we know -- exactly how it happened is beside the point.


Offline souxi

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #265 on: February 08, 2008, 10:30:25 am »
Well said, Chris, Bruce and Mika.

OK, Ross, so go ahead and hold him accountable. How exactly do you suggest doing this? Let's see, he's already dead -- what further penalties do you consider to be in order?

Ross, I'm not sure you're understanding what people are saying here. The point is that Heath is dead, it's tragic, he was young and talented and had a daughter and long life ahead of him. People are grieving, and whether or not we know -- or think we know -- exactly how it happened is beside the point.



Exactly right.Ross I really wish you,d just take all this somewhere else, because in my opinion it's no better than the gutter tabloid press, who have been gleefully printing allsorts of crap about poor Heath  since he died. How do you think his family would feel if they came here and read the things you,ve said about their son? For heavens sake show some respect.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 06:44:12 pm by Phillip Dampier »

Offline Soluki

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #266 on: February 08, 2008, 11:12:56 am »
Well I guess my "reality" is quite different than yours. However it still does not mean im wrong.

The cause for Heath Ledger's death is not and should not be viewed as a reflection of his life.  They are separate phenomena, each one dependant on many other causes and conditions.  His death was not in and of itself inherently bad or good.  It is simply an event.  We make the event bad or good when we apply our afflictive emotions to the phenomena;  The same can be said of his life.  He (like all of us) did (do) not exist independently.  There is an interconnectivity that must be acknowledged in order to fight the ignorance that causes our afflictive emotions to create feelings of anger, hatred, lust, intolerance...etc.

We have no more a right to be disappointed in the fact that he died or the manner in which he died than we do the death of the rose.  When we view these events ( and our lives even) as dependant arisings, then we can see that our various pains and emotional sufferings are caused by our own ignorant view of how we all exist in this world.

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #267 on: February 08, 2008, 11:15:22 am »
The cause for Heath Ledger's death is not and should not be viewed as a reflection of his life.  They are separate phenomena, each one dependant on many other causes and conditions.  His death was not in and of itself inherently bad or good.  It is simply an event.  We make the event bad or good when we apply our afflictive emotions to the phenomena;  The same can be said of his life.  He (like all of us) did (do) not exist independently.  There is an interconnectivity that must be acknowledged in order to fight the ignorance that causes our afflictive emotions to create feelings of anger, hatred, lust, intolerance...etc.

We have no more a right to be disappointed in the fact that he died or the manner in which he died than we do the death of the rose.  When we view these events ( and our lives even) as dependant arisings, then we can see that our various pains and emotional sufferings are caused by our own ignorant view of how we all exist in this world.

Wow, what an amazingly insightful post. Thank you so much Soluki... Welcome to Bettermost...

Offline Verona

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #268 on: February 08, 2008, 11:33:49 am »
On my local news yesterday morning, when they did the "In the Papers" segment and held up the Post to show another article, and I saw that Andrea Peyser article in the corner. I put these things together in my head. NY Post. Andrea Peyser. Celebrity death. Those three factors, both alone and in tandem, said to me "IGNORE."

Which is exactly what I now intend to do here. If I wanted to read this kind of crap, I'd go back to the imdb board. Some people, like Ms. Peyser and her ilk, think cynicism about celebrities makes them look cool, smart and in-the-know, and the schadenfreude  they display over the death over a decent, talented young man is sickening. For any happy, well-adjusted person, there is no glee or satisfaction over another person's unhappiness/death. But for others, it's the only glee and satisfaction they know how to derive from life. It's how they can finally feel superior to someone they previously considered superior to themselves. "Hahaha, well Mr. Handsome, Famous, Talented Movie Star wasn't so perfect after all, was he? HAHAHA, gotcha!! Well at least I'm still alive, sucker! Now maybe you'll all see that I'm just as good as these celebrities... even better!! Pick me, not them!!"

Sad. Pathetic and sad.

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: Heath Ledger's Accidental Overdose - Discussion Thread (Was: Breaking News)
« Reply #269 on: February 08, 2008, 11:35:54 am »
The cause for Heath Ledger's death is not and should not be viewed as a reflection of his life.  They are separate phenomena, each one dependant on many other causes and conditions.  His death was not in and of itself inherently bad or good.  It is simply an event.  We make the event bad or good when we apply our afflictive emotions to the phenomena;  The same can be said of his life.  He (like all of us) did (do) not exist independently.  There is an interconnectivity that must be acknowledged in order to fight the ignorance that causes our afflictive emotions to create feelings of anger, hatred, lust, intolerance...etc.

We have no more a right to be disappointed in the fact that he died or the manner in which he died than we do the death of the rose.  When we view these events ( and our lives even) as dependant arisings, then we can see that our various pains and emotional sufferings are caused by our own ignorant view of how we all exist in this world.

This a very touching post, and there is much I agree with in here.

I think it would be tragic if we let the circumstances of Heath's death define his life.  They do not.  We are here discussing him because he was interesting in life and we will miss him.

Celebrate him for who he was...

I found this article of appreciation "Heath Ledger - short career, lasting images"
by Mick LaSalle, Chronicle Movie Critic.

Quote
There's no way to make sense of this. No way to end an appreciation like this on an up note when the news is so sad. If there's something positive to be said, it's that the best work Ledger left behind will last forever, and the rest is already forgotten.

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