Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?

[David In Indy]

CNN is now reporting 5 dead and 17 injured in today's shooting at a DeKalb, Illinois university when a gunman entered a lecture hall and began spraying the students with bullets.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/university.shooting/index.html

Within the past 30 days, here in the US 3 were left dead at a technical college in Baton Rouge, Louisiana... 1 is critically injured during a school shooting in Memphis, Tennessee..... a 15 year old was shot at a California middle school.... 5 dead and 2 injured when a gunman enters a City Council meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri.... 5 women are shot and killed after a gunman open fires inside a women's clothing store in Tinley Park (Chicago) Illinois.

Just two months earlier, on December 5, 2007, a teen gunman walks into a Omaha, Nebraska mall and open fires, killing nine people before turning the gun on himself...... On December 9, 2007 a gunman shoots and kills 2 people at a Christian youth center in Arvada, Colorado before escaping and driving more than 50 miles to a church in Colorado Springs, Colorado where he killed an additional 2 people on the church parking lot. A church security guard killed the gunman with a shot to his head.

And who could forget last year's Virginia Tech shooting which left 33 dead and 29 injured..... or who could forget the Amish School house shooting when a gunman burst into a one room school shooting and killing 5 young girls?

I just finished reading an article over at BBC where a British reader left a comment asking "How many more Americans are going to die before America does something about guns?"

Good question.


 

[David In Indy]

Oh, I forgot to mention I voted "Yes".

[injest]

yep

[brokeplex]

This is a difficult time when so many have been killed by someone unknown, crazy or not, we just don't know all of the details as of now.

But, in a similar incident last year at a school in WV, several students went out to their trucks and grabbed their guns, turned them on the perp, and held him until the police FINALLY arrived. This saved many lives, because the students themselves could protect themselves.

When we create gun free zones in schools, we let the perp know in advance that he will find no guns there to stop him. If someone pulls a gun on you and wants you dead, and you have no gun, then you are dead. Under the same scenario, if you have a gun, then maybe you are not dead.

This week a paralyzed lady was trapped in her house, the house caught on fire, she called 9/11, she was put on hold over and over again, she died in the blaze. I have listened to the 911 tapes played on the radio, it is very sad.

When seconds count, the police are minutes away, and sometimes they just put you on hold.

DL is teaching me how to handle a gun, for the first time in my life I want to learn how to use one.

[delalluvia]

Unfortunately, the U.S. is not like European countries.  Our borders are fluid,we have vast areas of open country. 

I'm not sure what the government could do even if it wanted to do something.

Yes, they can outlaw the sale of handguns.

That would do nothing for the millions of handguns already in circulation and owned by 10s of thousands if not millions of people.

The authorities could ask Americans to give their guns up to local authorities, but that's pretty much it.  Those who do not want to surrender their weapons can't be made to.

What are they going to do?  A house to house search?  The government neither has the time, personnel nor the budget to do something like that. 

[David In Indy]

I appreciate your comments Brokeplex and I was hoping you would chime in.  

I keep think about other countries though, such as the European countries. They have very strict gun control laws and we rarely hear about these types of atrocities happening over there. Even here in North America - Canada has strict laws too, I believe. When was the last time we heard about a shooting up there? One comes to my mind, the incident in Alberta last summer.

I keep thinking about that. Something needs to change, somehow, because these shootings seem to be on the rise, and this little ol' Hoosier boy is getting kind of scared.  

[louisev]

the answer is not arming the populace: the answer is disarming it.  And it was done in Canada by offering bounties for weapons: the more you turn in, the more money you get for turning them in.  Strict gun control WORKS, and it has been proven in Britain, in Canada, and in Australia - but it took a massacre at Port Arthur to do it in Australia because the population felt they had a right 'to defend themselves.'

But I imagine strict gun control won't happen in the USA till long after gays are allowed to marry ... so, a very long time.

[David In Indy]

Hi Del! It looks like we posted at the same time.

Regarding your comment about the European countries, I have been reading countless online European newspapers and other media, and one thing has become clear to me - Europe is quite porous. Ever since the Schengen Agreement (now observed by 25 countries I believe) there are many pockets and cubby holes for hoodlums to sneak through. Go read the BBC sometime. They have been having many "Have Your Say" conversations about it. Many Europeans are concerned about it. But I don't hear them discussing guns!

Somehow, I don't think guns are the answer and I really don't know what we can do about it. These shooting are awful though. We need to figure something out or it will continue to get worse around here.

[delalluvia]

the answer is not arming the populace: the answer is disarming it.  And it was done in Canada by offering bounties for weapons: the more you turn in, the more money you get for turning them in.  Strict gun control WORKS, and it has been proven in Britain, in Canada, and in Australia - but it took a massacre at Port Arthur to do it in Australia because the population felt they had a right 'to defend themselves.'

But I imagine strict gun control won't happen in the USA till long after gays are allowed to marry ... so, a very long time.

Well, that works for people who need money badly.  I don't need the money badly - it certainly won't be what the gun is worth - so neither I nor my friends who own multiple guns and gun collections would be tempted by bounty offering.  And of course the professional criminals might just like to turn theirs in, get money and turn right around and buy more illegally from across the border.

Hi Atreyu,

I'm sure European countries have pockets and cubbyholes for the criminal element to cross borders.  The U.S. has thousands upon thousands of miles, completely uninhabited and unwatched and unguarded.

I put the gun control issue on the same level as back on 9-11 when people pointed out that Israel had very strict security on their aviation industry and why couldn't the U.S. be as safe?

The answer was - sheer volume.

Like air travel, the U.S.'s gun market is enormous and an extremely lucrative business.  The U.S. has granted its population quite a bit of leeway in gun ownership for centuries.  This is not something that can be brought under control easily or soon.  As Louise said, it will likely be generations before it's brought under control, if it even can be.

[brokeplex]

I appreciate your comments Brokeplex and I was hoping you would chime in.  

I keep think about other countries though, such as the European countries. They have very strict gun control laws and we rarely hear about these types of atrocities happening over there. Even here in North America - Canada has strict laws too, I believe. When was the last time we heard about a shooting up there? One comes to my mind, the incident in Alberta last summer.

I keep thinking about that. Something needs to change, somehow, because these shootings seem to be on the rise, and this little ol' Hoosier boy is getting kind of scared.  

Well, we agree on the fear component in this discussion. I am also afraid of a future that will probably contain psycho killers and terrorists.

If I were convinced that confiscating all firearms, and that would have to include hunting rifles, the man in IL apparently killed with a shot gun, could be done in a timely and peaceful manner, and that such confiscation would eliminate incidents that we now see in IL, and earlier in WV, and VA, well then I would be all in favor of rapid confiscation. No exceptions, just law enforcement and the military would be allowed to carry firearms.

I am a conservative, but I am not a 2nd Amendment conservative. I think most of the NRA is a bit wacky in fact. I can't make an argument that 2nd amendment protections to the right to bear arms are viable in today's world. My opinion is that the 2nd amendment was written and approved by those at the constitutional convention who favored the arming of all state militias as an abettment to easy secession from the union, if that was ever needed. State militias were each states's defense against a tyrannical central government, go look at the debates over the 2nd amendment during the that time frame and you will see much discussion about whether the US was a voluntary association of sovereign states, to be broken up at will, or an integral union. This discussion was finally and completely answered in the Civil War, the Confederacy taking the right to secession and arming of state militia's seriously decided to secede. Pres Lincoln had other ideas, saying "The Constitution is not a suicide pact".

That should have been the end of 2nd Amendment discussions, it was a dead letter. Until the NRA, gave it new life.

I can't agree with gun free zones or gun control because that just won't work. We just can't get all the guns out of the hands of those who wish to kill. And, there will always be crazies who wish to kill some of us. I would rather have the option of defense other than my wit and charm. Also, schools need to be able to intervene in the lives of those who exhibit crazy behavior, the guy who shot up Virginia Tech was crying out for help. Over and over again we see behavioral patterns in these killers that alert us that they may be dangerous. I'd rather be safe than sorry and intervene in their lives.