Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?

[louisev]

The proof in the pudding that strict gun control reduces gun related injury and death is the comparison between Vancouver BC and Seattle, Washington.  In the same time one year time period, these two cities, comparable both in population and demographics reported the following gun related crimes resulting in injury:

Vancouver:  1
Seattle:  67

We can reduce gun related crimes by reduce the number of guns and gun registrations, and that is a no brainer.  I don't believe anyone has the idea that gun control is going to eliminate all shootings - people will still be able to get them illegally, they do in Canada, Britain, and in Australia.  But in the US it is falling-off-a-log simple to get any number of high power weapons - and they do.  Limit the gun registrations - and limit the number of deaths from shootings. It really is that simple.

When I cited the facts about Seattle and Vancouver to some gun-lovers in Florida a few years back, the response I got from the Floridians made my jaw drop: they said that there are less shootings in Canada because "Canadians are less violent than Americans."  Clearly they don't watch hockey.

[moremojo]

I am a strict and reverent interpreter of the U.S. Constitution, and see little in the language of the Second Amendment to dissuade me from believing that this cornerstone of national law guarantees the rights of American citizens to keep and bear firearms.

However, I am extremely ambivalent about guns (do not own one myself), and am well aware of how much they contribute to the violence that does occur in our society. I very much am in favor of reexamining our laws and national conscience, and amending the Constitution to place reasonable restrictions on gun ownership and use, reflecting the current realities of our society, conditions that our founding fathers could probably not have imagined when they enacted and ratified the Bill of Rights. But I am very much against judges and other comparable authorities legislating the Second Amendment out of existence through judicial fiat.

[underdown]

It just seems to me if Australia did it, we can do it too. Whether one is pro guns or anti guns, I think nearly every American will agree SOMETHING needs to be done about this. There is no doubt these shootings are on the rise in this country. The question is, what do we do about it?

The same questions and argument for and against gun control were raised in Australia when we considered it.
The debate was long and furious, especially coming from the 'gun lobby' as it was called (and still exists), mainly sporting shooters.
There was even a political party formed to contest seats in parliament, called 'The Shooters Party'.
Eventually, the gun control laws went ahead, the Government paid out huge sums in the 'buy back' scheme and destroyed mountains of them.
The new law allowed farmers to own guns, as they lobbied that they needed them to humanely put down animals. Anyone who legitimately needed a gun in their work (such as pest control officers - and that included kangaroo shooters) could apply for a licence. Members of recognised gun clubs, and certain properly trained cash security guards, can have a licence.
In short, the only people who can't legally own a gun, now, in Australia are those who don't have a legitimate reason.
It took a quite a while for the ruckus to settle down, but now gun control is generally considered a good thing. After all, if someone doesn't have a legitimate, lawful reason to own a gun, what would they do with it? Hold up a bank? Shoot the wildlife? Shoot school students? Be a 'tough' guy?
We hear all too often of shootings in the US, and wonder why it is still happening, over and over; particularly in schools. We are horrified by it, and many here still remember a rare mass shooting of our own some years ago (a friend of mine lost his sister and nephew in that attack). Australians are very sensitive to the memory of that, and shudder every time they hear of a shooting in the US, because of the fear that some copycat here will get hold of a gun.
What would it really cost? It would only employ people who pay taxes and circulate the money.
People in the US must make the decision one day. But it's rather like converting from feet and inches to metric measure. That was hard, too, but well worth the effort. Unfortunately, yes, there are still some shootings in Australia, but nothing like the carnage and mass murder we read about happening in the US.

[souxi]

The proof in the pudding that strict gun control reduces gun related injury and death is the comparison between Vancouver BC and Seattle, Washington.  In the same time one year time period, these two cities, comparable both in population and demographics reported the following gun related crimes resulting in injury:

Vancouver:  1
Seattle:  67

We can reduce gun related crimes by reduce the number of guns and gun registrations, and that is a no brainer.  I don't believe anyone has the idea that gun control is going to eliminate all shootings - people will still be able to get them illegally, they do in Canada, Britain, and in Australia.  But in the US it is falling-off-a-log simple to get any number of high power weapons - and they do.  Limit the gun registrations - and limit the number of deaths from shootings. It really is that simple.

When I cited the facts about Seattle and Vancouver to some gun-lovers in Florida a few years back, the response I got from the Floridians made my jaw drop: they said that there are less shootings in Canada because "Canadians are less violent than Americans."  Clearly they don't watch hockey.

I know nothing about gun laws in the US, but your right, people CAN and do get hold of guns illegally. Over here in the UK I often watch a programe on Living TV called Ross Kemp on gangs. In some of the cities in the US, gang violence is horrific and for many people, it,s just a way of life. Some of the arms caches these gangs have is fightening. They have allsorts of guns,and they aint afraid to use them. Scary.

[forsythia12]

here is a really good essay on the comparison of gun violence between candada, u.s., and the u.k.
it does back up the theory that the gun laws in canada have had a profound effect on the reduction in gun crimes, and it was quite informative; however, our canadian government still want stricter laws passed, and even a hand gun ban altogether.  in canada, we tend to blame everything but the person responsible, and rarely are the held completely accountable for their actions.  instead, we take away the temptations, the weapons, and the means in which the criminal used to commit the crime...but we don't punish him.  our justice system pampers the criminals, and society as a whole has to pay, and our rights are adjusted or removed.  so, although we have had success in stricter gun laws, as well as other factors, i do think there comes a point when enough is enough. 
here is the link to the essay, with many interesting stats.




http://www.cyberessays.com/Politics/100.htm

[brokeplex]

OK, those who wish to change US laws to more closely reflect Canadian laws or Australian laws, tell me how you would do this? I challenge you.

It easy to say: "this needs to be done" or "that must be changed". But it is much harder to visualize a realistic plan to accomplish those goals.

If making gun control laws in the US as tight as they are in the UK would make all US citizens safer, I'd be in favor of it today. Just offering statistics comparing a city in the US with a city in another country with an entirely different set of laws, doesn't make sense to me. If a Canadian city has less violent crime, you can not logically say that is just because of that one factor, it is all of the factors which make Canadian cities, laws, and customs different than US cities.

So, those who wish to change US gun laws, knock yourself out. I'll even make it easier for you. Lets assume the 2nd amendment is a dead letter, now that is a big assumption as Moremojo is right, under the present interpretation of the 2nd amendment, it will be very difficult to change US laws into facsimiles of Canadian laws on the subject of the "right to bear arms".

But for the sake of this argument, assume that the 2nd amendment is dead. Now tell me how you are going to get all of those millions of guns out of the hands of private citizens without armed rebellion. And, once you do that, how can you be certain that criminals won't be able to get guns anyway.

I think that we all know about the illegal arms trade around the world?

So, go for it, convince me.

[Jeff Wrangler]

But, in a similar incident last year at a school in WV, several students went out to their trucks and grabbed their guns, turned them on the perp, and held him until the police FINALLY arrived. This saved many lives, because the students themselves could protect themselves.

The frontier was declared closed in 1890. I am appalled to live in a country where (I presume) high school students take weapons to school in their vehicles.

Personally, I believe the present interpretation of the Second Amendment is unhistorical, and--is it Scalia who believes in interpreting the Constitution as the writers supposedly intended?--more attention in interpretation needs to be paid to conditions in the fledgling United States when the Amendment was written. I do not believe the amendment even as it is written prohibits any government, federal, state, or local, from strictly regulating gun ownership and sales.

I don't suppose we can do much about the guns that are already out there, but we need to start somewhere.

As an aside, the murder rate in Philadelphia has reached epidemic proportions. The city is fighting with the rest of Pennsylvania over being given the ability to do something about guns within the city borders. On the one hand, I have to admit that I am perfectly willing for drug dealers and other criminals to shoot each other, but we are having too many innocent bystanders, including small children, shot and killed by gang-bangers who can't hit the side of a barn. And then there is the issue of little kids who find daddy's handgun in his coat pocket and accidentally kill themselves.

Although my mother would not allow my dad to turn me into a hunter, I grew up around gun people, and I grew up playing with toy rifles. Rifles don't scare me. I am perfectly comfortable around long guns. Handguns worry me. And I don't believe that ordinary citizens need to own automatic weapons.