Author Topic: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***  (Read 25376 times)

Offline Ellemeno

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"The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« on: February 23, 2008, 10:28:39 pm »
Here's a thread to discuss the novel "The Queen's Gambit," by Walter Tevis.

It is the novel Heath planned to make into a film, in his planned full-length film directorial debut.

I would love if those with clear ideas on how to structure the discussion would post their ideas. 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 12:15:15 am by Ellemeno »

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 10:33:30 pm »
Let's have a roll call of who is interested in participating, and if they have read the book yet or not:

Hi, I'm Clarissa and I'm a Heathen.  I read the book recently and have finished it.

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2008, 11:10:34 pm »
I am Leslie and I think it goes without saying that I am a Heathen! LOL

I am about 3/4s of the way through The Queen's Gambit and will finish or tomorrow or Monday.

And it makes me wish I knew more about chess!

L
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Offline Meryl

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 12:34:03 am »
Meryl here, and a card-carrying Heathen.  I've got the book but haven't started it yet.  8)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 02:18:29 am »
Well, I don't even have the book ordered because I have so much I HAVE to read right now. But then again, I am a card-carrying Heathen, and I've been impressed by people's comments on what a page-turner it is ...

OK, that's it, I'm not going to read this thread again for fear I'll find out too much.


Offline cmr107

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2008, 02:27:26 am »
I'm Courtney, and I'm a Heathen, but like Katherine, I have way too much I should be reading right now. I intend to read it as soon as I have time, which will hopefully be Spring Break.  :-\

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2008, 05:40:13 am »
Oh, how nice, additionally to the HHH thread we now have a HA thread  ;D


I'm Chrissi and I am a Heathen.  I've started reading the book and am roughly one third through it. Will finish within a week. Looking forward to the discussions  :).

Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2008, 06:44:37 am »
Hi, I'm Mikaela and I'm a Heathen. *sniff* No surprise there!

I finished the book yesterday and I had lots of thoughts after having finished it.

As for structure, I think I'd just like to wade in ASAP while the memories are as fresh as possible, but perhaps we could tackle the content and characters first, especially the character of Beth -  then after that what must have especially resonated with Heath, ...and then the more movie-related issues: I.e. How do you adapt into a film something where so much of the action is people sitting over chess boards making moves...

Anyway, though I liked the book a lot it didn't make me a whit more interested in chess! (I'm not even good at Sudoku.) Reading lots and lots of books about previous chess games would be my idea of pure, boring, horrible hell.  ;D All the more kudos to the author who manged to make this resonate with humanity and so relevant and interesting despite the chess-based action.
It is a good reminder how the human brain is wired and how intensely focused we can become about that which catches our interest and imagination and fires our physical and/or mental strengths into full "on" mode -  be it chess or marathon or discussing Brokeback Mountain.  :)


**Slaps self on wrist**

Yes, I will shut up now!


Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2008, 06:57:42 am »
No, after pondering a bit I think I want to say that what I'm most interested in discussing first is Beth. Her character, her development, her personality, her strengths and weaknesses, what specific influences make her the person she is and becomes, how does she interact with others.

She's a fascinating person, so much packed into one person's frame, I've got loads to say on it and as I said elsewhere I do find her strangely relevant to what we know (or sense) about Heath, and about many extremely talented artists in various fields.


Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2008, 07:14:59 am »
I certainly think that Beth is worthy of plenty of discussion.

Walter Tevis is also the author of The Hustler and The Color of Money--books that I haven't read but I've seen both movies and they are good. They are about pool. I wonder if those books are similar to this--taking a "sport" that on the surface seems sort of boring and turn it into a terrific read? Interesting.

He also wrote The Man Who Fell to Earth. Wasn't that made into a movie with David Bowie? (working from memory here....)

L
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Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2008, 01:18:51 pm »
Hi, I'm Marie - does loving all things Heath Ledger make me a Heathen?  Then I guess I am  :)

I'm re-reading the book and I'm at the end of Chapter 13; I'll finish it today for sure. 

Walter Tevis is also the author of The Hustler and The Color of Money--books that I haven't read but I've seen both movies and they are good. They are about pool. I wonder if those books are similar to this--taking a "sport" that on the surface seems sort of boring and turn it into a terrific read? Interesting.

Leslie, I thought of this, too.  And I also thought of the idea that both chess and pool have geometric aspects to them.  In both sports, a really good player needs to be able envision relationships of points, lines and angles and the arrangement of objects (something I've never been especially good at). 

I'm not a chess player, but, for some reason, I still found the detailed descriptions of the moves interesting. 

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline cmr107

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2008, 02:50:33 pm »
Walter Tevis is also the author of The Hustler and The Color of Money--books that I haven't read but I've seen both movies and they are good. They are about pool. I wonder if those books are similar to this--taking a "sport" that on the surface seems sort of boring and turn it into a terrific read? Interesting.

He also wrote The Man Who Fell to Earth. Wasn't that made into a movie with David Bowie? (working from memory here....)

This is completely off topic, but has there been any talk of someone else making this into a movie? If two or three of his books are already movies, maybe someone else will want to do this one.

I was just thinkin out loud...

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2008, 04:53:57 pm »
Hey everyone! I'd love to join in the discussion, but the book hasn't arrived yet.

'Delivery has been delayed' apparently. :-\
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 06:17:19 pm »
I finished The Queen's Gambit this morning on the trip home, so I am ready to discuss it whenever everyone catches up.

Since I knew I would finish the book before I finished my trip, I stopped at the airport newsstand to find pick up something else to read (foolishly, I forgot to bring Atonement with me). I bought "21: Bringing Down the House" which is "the inside story of six MIT students who took Vegas for millions." They play blackjack and this book makes counting cards as exciting as Tevis made descriptions of chess moves! It is non-fiction but still is a fast paced and fun read, so I recommend it. Written by Ben Mezrich.

L
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 04:08:08 am »
Do any of you think it would be worth having a sub-forum just for this?  We could have a thread about Beth, and threads about whatever?

Or should we just jump in and go?  Though I started the thread, I don't see myself as a clear-minded leader on this at all.  Mikaela, maybe you ought to lead?  If we need a leader?  I want to be supportive of the discussion, but don't know how.  Anyway, sub-forum, or is that not necessary?

Also, a topic I want us to discuss is which character we think Heath wanted to play?  First one character came along that I assumed he would play, but then later another, more lasting character seemed more likely.


Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 07:33:16 am »
I don't think we need a subforum, myself. I don't want to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

As for Heath, thinking it through, I think he'd play Benny Watts. Other ideas?

L
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Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 02:07:15 pm »
As for Heath, thinking it through, I think he'd play Benny Watts. Other ideas?

L

Yes, Benny Watts is who came to my mind - but I suppose he could've also played Townes. 

God, that "could've" just sent a pang through my heart. 

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 04:35:19 pm »
I don't think we need a subforum, myself. I don't want to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

As for Heath, thinking it through, I think he'd play Benny Watts. Other ideas?

L

Agreed about the subforum. I don't think it's necessary.

I think you're probably right about Benny Watts, but who I'd really have liked to see Heath play: Borgov.

Yes I would.

Granted, the description of the man's look is nothing like Heath, but then again, Heath wasn't cave-chested with a broken nose either...

Seriously, I think he would have played that forceful, legendary, enigmatic, intense, self-assured, overpowering  Russian presence so well! Could have given lots of nuances to a character who excuded self-confidence and strength and who never gave much away to his spectators. I'd have loved to have seen that.


I'm tired of typing "could have been". That never gets easier...  :'(

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 05:11:40 pm »
I picture Borgov as very dark...how about Eric Bana for that role?
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2008, 11:33:50 pm »

Granted, the description of the man's look is nothing like Heath, but then again, Heath wasn't cave-chested with a broken nose either...




Thanks for the smile that gave me, Mikaela.

What if he played  - oh I don't have my copy here - the man who taught her chess, the janitor.  That was maybe the most nuanced male part, and the most silent.

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2008, 07:18:26 am »

Thanks for the smile that gave me, Mikaela.

What if he played  - oh I don't have my copy here - the man who taught her chess, the janitor.  That was maybe the most nuanced male part, and the most silent.

I picture the janitor as an older man, and heavy. Personally, I couldn't see Heath in that role at all.

We have lots of parts we can cast. Just quickly:

Jolene
Mrs. Deardorff (the superintendent)
Ferguson (the nice guy at the school)
Mrs. Wheatley
Beltik
Townes
Benny Watts
Borgov

L
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Offline belbbmfan

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2008, 08:09:07 am »
Yes, yes, I've finally gotten confirmation that the book is on its way!

Can't wait to start reading it.  :)
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 09:27:58 am »
Yes, yes, I've finally gotten confirmation that the book is on its way!

Can't wait to start reading it.  :)

I buzzed right through it. It's a good story.
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 01:06:23 pm »

What if he played  - oh I don't have my copy here - the man who taught her chess, the janitor.  That was maybe the most nuanced male part, and the most silent.

I didn't think the janitor was especially nuanced. Came off as a rather one-dimensional guy to me. As did all the guys in Beth's life, to be honest, except Borgov. He's her nemesis, the one she will continue to fear and respect - the one she will be in constant mental and professional battle with, the one she won't ever excel over and pass by or tire of. So I think he's the most interesting and nuanced guy because of that.... seen through Beth's eyes.

The reason why every other guy than Borgov seemed so blah probably was because we do somehow see them through Beth's eyes - and she leaves them, finds them of little interest, once she's managed to make all the use of them she can as relates to her "art" - chess. Once they've got nothing more to teach her there, she leaves them behind with little fuss. They are only "persons" as far as their chess-playing abilities reach. (Although perhaps there is a chance that Benny could become something more...that last tleephone conversation out of the blue leaves hope for that..?)  It is a seemingly cold and callous attitude towards others, and a very single-minded focus on her own "art" and development of same (one that however is not uncommon in very talented artists, I beleive - I've read biographies where this kind of relationship to others seems prominennt).

But this way of dealing with others  probably also stems from her childhood abandomment issues - she subconsciously fears emotional attachements because life has taught her those just end up with pain and grief and loneiness - and she picks men that can contribute to developing her passion for chess, rather than men that she might become truly emotionally attached to beyond that - and so she can leave them before they can leave her, and without the pain that would come from a real break-up.


Argh... enough said. I'm NOT gonna start this till everyone's read the book!  :-X

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2008, 01:47:05 pm »
My book arrived too - I plan to start tonight.  The trick is getting my 3-year-old to bed before I fall asleep!



Hey Susie!

Ah, 3 year olds... been there done that. I don't think I was reading much when my kids were that age.  ;D
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2008, 05:23:56 am »
Hey Susie!

Ah, 3 year olds... been there done that. I don't think I was reading much when my kids were that age.  ;D

Me too, my daughter is almost five and I only started really reading again in the last very few months.

Okay, this is what I realized I loved about this book, and I would like to know if there is a name for this - it is entirely written from Beth's perspective, not even too much of her thoughts, unless she is obsessing, more just her actions, and what she sees, hears, etc.  We realize the unspoken by what she sees, like the crowds increasing when she plays - oh she's getting famous, for example. 

When I realized the book was written this way, I got excited, I thought that maybe this was a style of writing I could maybe do.  Not much description, or analysis, just one person's perceptions as she walks down a hall or takes a bus.  It was only from reading some Amazon reviews did I learn that those pills she was taking are Librium.  Maybe we were supposed to understand that from the physical description and the effects, but I didn't.



Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2008, 06:22:15 am »
It was only from reading some Amazon reviews did I learn that those pills she was taking are Librium.  Maybe we were supposed to understand that from the physical description and the effects, but I didn't.


***SPOILERS***

Small world  ;D
No, we aren't supposed to understand it from the effects, Librium is named. Half an hour ago, I just read the scene where it's mentioned the pills are Librium. It's on page 134, when Mrs. Wheatley dies and Beth asks the doc who attested Mrs. W's death for a prescription. The doc answers in Mexico you don't need a prescription for Librium (and alarm bells began to ring in the back of my head. Must be paradise for Beth).

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2008, 07:42:45 am »
If anyone is interested, here is a little history of Librium:

http://www.benzo.org.uk/librium.htm

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Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2008, 04:21:12 pm »
... Sometimes I think of Heath holding his copy and reading/thinking about the very same words.

Oh my (((Susie))) - another heart pang!   :'(

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2008, 12:15:57 am »
There were a few phrases in the book that were surprisingly BBMesque.  Did anyone notice any?



Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2008, 07:42:10 am »
There were a few phrases in the book that were surprisingly BBMesque.  Did anyone notice any?

Yes! I'm happy you mention it, I thought I was picturing this. One I remember right now is on page 92, first paragraph. Mrs. Wheatley and Beth are on a plane and start to bond.

"She [Mrs. W] was high-spirited and confidential and amusing, and Beth would laugh a long time and look out the window at the clouds below them and feel better than she had ever felt, even during those times at Methuen when she had saved up her green pills and taken five or six at once.

Reiminds me of the time when Ennis thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

On the same note, Mrs. Weathley's first name is Alma, of all names! And then the Denver-thingie! Mr. Wheatley went to Denver (for a second, I contemplated whether he migh be gay  :laugh: ;)).

Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2008, 01:46:48 pm »
I imagine this picture is somewhere in the HHH thread already, but I copped it from an LJ this morning - the chess board caught my eye!


The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2008, 06:27:43 pm »
That's a great picture, Marie, and I've never seen it before...I don't think it is on the HHH thread!

L
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 04:45:13 am »
Marie, I second what Leslie said about the pic: I'm pretty sure it's not on HHH yet. Go over and post it there  :D.

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2008, 01:57:40 pm »
I imagine this picture is somewhere in the HHH thread already, but I copped it from an LJ this morning - the chess board caught my eye!




And the hat! Great pic Marie, thanks for posting it.

 :)
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Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2008, 07:05:36 pm »
And the hat! Great pic Marie, thanks for posting it.

 :)

Yes!!! The hat - absolutely caught my eye, too.  As I mentioned on the HHH thread, there's a lot of interesting details in the picture. 

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Meryl

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2008, 12:55:32 am »
I finished "The Queen's Gambit" last week but haven't had time or energy to catch up on this thread.  Lots of good comments so far!  Just one thought to get it started again...

***Spoilers***

I think one reason maybe Heath was drawn to this story, besides being a chess freak, is that Beth is an orphan and a loner, very private, needing love but not expecting it, much like Ennis.  Obviously, he knew something about that kind of character and felt he could bring something to the movie as its director.  Qualities in Beth that remind me of Heath are her intelligence, strong will and ability to concentrate when it's necessary, her innate integrity and ability to size people up quickly and her dangerous fascination with drugs and alcohol.
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2008, 06:23:21 am »
I finished "The Queen's Gambit" last week but haven't had time or energy to catch up on this thread.  Lots of good comments so far!  Just one thought to get it started again...

***Spoilers***

I think one reason maybe Heath was drawn to this story, besides being a chess freak, is that Beth is an orphan and a loner, very private, needing love but not expecting it, much like Ennis.  Obviously, he knew something about that kind of character and felt he could bring something to the movie as its director.  Qualities in Beth that remind me of Heath are her intelligence, strong will and ability to concentrate when it's necessary, her innate integrity and ability to size people up quickly and her dangerous fascination with drugs and alcohol.

Some people just say things so much better than I ever could. Thanks, Meryl!
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Offline Meryl

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2008, 09:33:01 pm »
Some people just say things so much better than I ever could. Thanks, Meryl!

Shucks, Leslie, thanks!  But you're certainly no slouch!  8)

I learned a lot from this book about just how deep and complex chess is, and I loved the mystical passages where Beth saw the board as not merely physical game pieces, but as force fields with unlimited potential.  It would be interesting to see that depicted on film with some sort of special effects.

The thing that I loved about Beth's character was how unstoppable she was.  Once she saw that chessboard in the school basement, she refused to let anything discourage her from finding out just what it was and how it worked.  She overcame the restrictive school schedule, the janitor's blunt refusal to let her play, his lack of cooperation in teaching her, and eventually even being banned from playing chess at all until she was adopted.  Even then, she had to resort to theft and subterfuge to get the materials she needed.  It was like she knew she had been born just for chess and went for it like a plant to sunlight.
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2008, 10:12:51 pm »
My son, the reader, is coming home from college for his spring break this next week (due home on Friday).

He is taking a lit course at school so he is totally overwhelmed with reading, ie, "Mom, I am supposed to read 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' in a day!" But maybe he'll have a breather this week. I know he would love this book and I would love to talk to him about it. We'll see. I'll keep you posted.

L
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2008, 02:40:02 pm »
Quote
Qualities in Beth that remind me of Heath are her intelligence, strong will and ability to concentrate when it's necessary, her innate integrity and ability to size people up quickly and her dangerous fascination with drugs and alcohol.

What struck me was the duality in Beth - one that I suppose was also there in Heath and that he may well have recognized: The immense internal tension, pressure, energy, restlessness and sheer *drive* that came with her talent and her outstanding abilities (or were a result of them, I don't know whether the chicken or the egg came first). Anyway, all that enormously potent energy was a burden and a blessing both. It demanded an outlet; and it could and did take her in two directions to find that outlet. When things were going well and she was in a position to freely practice and develop her art (and chess appears as a true art form here) the energy took her to new artistic heights, drove her on to amazing achievements. When she was denied that artistic outlet or an immense outburst of creative energy had worn her completely down, she turned to psychofarma or alcohol to be able to blunt and tame the immense internal pressure that was always there, to somehow control and dull its impact - in addition to using those things as comfort and support.

I think there may be a truth here about the character of many very hugely talented and apparently "highstrung" people, - the curse that comes with their gift.

Offline luminousmidnight

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2008, 11:25:28 pm »
I honestly cannot believe there is discussion on The Queen's Gambit.  I read it back in September of 2004, and it remains one of my top three books.  It's a beautiful story, and I'm stunned to learn that there's a movie in some kind of production.

Does anyone know for sure if the movie is actually going to be made?  I can't believe Heath Ledger was going to direct and star in it.

Back in 2004-6, there was almost no talk of Queen's Gambit anywhere on the web.  I remember, because I looked from time to time.  Now this.  Excellent :).

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2008, 07:18:59 am »
Welcome Luminous,

I see you're new to Bettermost. Welcome! Glad to have you here.

Yes, we are trying to get a discussion off the ground. We are a pretty international group and people are in various stages of reading, but I think most of us have finished the book.

I haven't heard anything more about this as a movie project, since Heath's death.

L
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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2008, 08:57:32 am »
I read that the writer will look for other people to direct the film.

yb

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2008, 09:04:31 am »
I thought the writer was no longer alive.  Unless you mean the screenwriter.



Maybe so, I'm not sure.  I haven't paid too much attention to this project. 

Sorry for the wrong information. 

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2008, 09:41:38 am »
I found two audio interviews with Walter Tevis, done around the time of publication of The Queen's Gambit.

http://wiredforbooks.org/waltertevis/

I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet.

L
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2008, 02:40:48 am »

The thing that I loved about Beth's character was how unstoppable she was.  Once she saw that chessboard in the school basement, she refused to let anything discourage her from finding out just what it was and how it worked.  She overcame the restrictive school schedule, the janitor's blunt refusal to let her play, his lack of cooperation in teaching her, and eventually even being banned from playing chess at all until she was adopted.  Even then, she had to resort to theft and subterfuge to get the materials she needed.  It was like she knew she had been born just for chess and went for it like a plant to sunlight.


Again, like Heath, leaving home with less than $24 in a coffee can, traveling to Sydney, then LA.  Repositioning himself when he didn't like the direction his career was going, undeterred.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2008, 02:42:34 am »

I agree that Heath would have been great in the role of Benny Watts.  I hope the book is eventually made into a movie by someone.  Perhaps Ellen Page would fit well as Beth.  I have not seen Juneau,  but she seems to be the right age and has the right look.




Ellen Page was the one Heath was going to have play the part.  I agree, I can't picture anyone else in the role.

Offline luminousmidnight

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2008, 03:55:06 am »

Ellen Page was the one Heath was going to have play the part.  I agree, I can't picture anyone else in the role.

Given her success with Juno, and his with Brokeback Mountain and The Dark Knight (yet to come, but still), it would have lent great credibility to a story most people have never heard of.  At least Page is still possible.

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2008, 10:52:14 am »
I have downloaded the two interviews with Walter Tevis and turned them into MP3 files. If anyone would like a copy, send me a PM with your email address and I'll get them right out to you!

I am going to listen to them tomorrow on my way to/from work.

L
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2008, 07:24:48 am »
from The Independent, UK


Heath Ledger - a prophetic tragedy


When he died, Heath Ledger was preparing to direct a film about a chess prodigy. The writer Allan Shiach talks to Rob Sharp about the project's similarities to the actor's own unhappy situation

Friday, 14 March 2008

The Soho office walls belonging to the screenwriter Allan Shiach, who writes under the name Allan Scott, are a photographic patchwork quilt. In one picture, he is rubbing shoulders with Donald Sutherland. In another, he is locked into a cosy clinch with Jeremy Irons. A third sees him mid-speech, in black tie, revelling in the chortles of two Pythons.

But recently, Shiach – whose writing credits include the 1973 adapted screenplay for Don't Look Now – has had little to grin about. Until last month he was working with the late Heath Ledger on a film adaptation of Walter Tevis's 1983 novel The Queen's Gambit, about a chess prodigy's chequered history. The Australian actor was pencilled in to direct and star alongside the Oscar-nominated actress Ellen Page.

But, since Ledger's death from an accidental drugs overdose on 22 January, the movie has gained a freakish poignancy. In the screenplay, the principal character wrestles with addiction to prescription drugs. At one point she even lies prostrate on a bed, surrounded by alcohol and pills. And the movie's depiction of an orphan's ascent from obscurity to become a world chess champion mirrors one of Ledger's talents: according to Shiach he was a chess champion of a high world ranking, within reach of becoming a grandmaster.

Of Ledger's death, the screenwriter simply says: "Everyone knows Heath was a user of prescription drugs; and that he had addiction issues when he was a young man. On a personal level I am incredibly sad. One is always sad to lose someone as a friend. But, what is more, the movie business lost a real talent. I think he would have been an extraordinary director." So what were the circumstances behind the pair's ill-fated collaboration?

Shiach, 67, first read the novel of The Queen's Gambit in 1990, but had reservations. He says: "Although I thought it was wonderful, the book was more about the central character Beth's internal journey. That is hard to dramatise. The novel was more about chess than characters. I realised that if I were to take the project forward I would need to find the right balance between these two elements."

Buoyed by confidence that he could bring a visual richness to the novel's introspection, Shiach acquired the rights to The Queen's Gambit in 1992. Years passed. He says: "I wrote the draft of the screenplay myself. Then [The Coal Miner's Daughter director] Michael Apted became involved. When he moved on to other projects, [Last Tango in Paris director] Bernardo Bertolucci wanted to do it. We worked on it for a year. But again things fell by the wayside."

The Queen's Gambit languished at the bottom of a store-cupboard for almost a decade. But then, just as he had begun to give up hope, Shiach's phone rang. "A year ago I had calls from three people who wanted to direct it," drawls Shiach. "And of the three of them I found Heath was the one I wanted to work with. He was passionate about it; he was an intense, interested young man and I was drawn to him immediately. We spoke and spoke about the project over the phone, and then eventually got round to meeting up over it towards the end of last year." Before long, the creative process was in full flow. With the backing of an ascending star of Ledger's calibre, for the first time the script seemed commercially viable.

"We spent a lot of time over the last three months working on his vision," continues Shiach. "I did draft after draft and he gave his input and we met several times in New York and here, where he was spending a lot of his time. We had got to the stage where we had sent the script to Ellen. Heath was full of ideas for the other cast, mainly from his list of acting friends. We were planning to make a movie at the end of 2008."

The pair had discussed music – Shiach had sent Ledger a 1950s compilation featuring classics such as Rosemary Clooney's "This Ole House", about which, he says, Ledger expressed enthusiasm. Now, Shiach's inbox contains hundreds of emails from Ledger, containing thoughts, often sent late at night. The pair had decided to use Pino Donaggio's haunting piano music from the opening scenes of Don't Look Now to mark the sequence where Beth leaves a trailer park to live in an orphanage.

The product of this creative partnership, the 109-page script, is vastly nuanced and enjoyable. It is a Beautiful Mind-style tale of frustrated, lonely genius, and how that intelligence deals with the world. But of this, one page stands out. It is a scene in which Beth has a crisis of confidence leading up to a major tournament. She retreats, alone, to her family house. This section reads: "There is noise coming from everywhere in the house. Her suitcase lies open on the bed, clothes spilling everywhere. There are at least a dozen bottles of tranquilliser pills lying in the suitcase, stuffed into every corner, each with Mexican labels. She opens one of these – grabs a bottle of liquor – and drinks direct from the bottle to swallow two pills." It would have been a script with which Ledger would have been intimately connected at the time of his death.

Now the writer has meetings scheduled with Ledger's business partners in LA – employees of production company The Masses, largely a collective of directors and artists – to take the project forward. Shiach is also planning – once the circumstances surrounding Ledger's demise have settled – to find a new director.

The Masses' Sarah Cline said of The Queen's Gambit: "Immediately this book sparked something within us and tapped into our sensibility; it is a great actor's piece, a formidable director's canvas, and a story that strongly champions the resilience of the human spirit. It's smart, powerful, and moving."

Shiach, however, is understandably more reserved. He concludes: "As in everything you write, if you're lucky one in five screenplays gets made. With this, it's just a question of waiting for the right opportunity and getting the right director. I thought Heath was that. Although it's a very commercial subject it will be seen as an art-house movie. So you need to bring in strong actors and make a beautiful film in order to have a hope of having a break-out success."

This will come if the strength of the writing is anything to go by. But all this depends on the team behind it being fully able to lay the ghosts surrounding The Queen's Gambit to rest.

Allan Shiach will be in conversation with Nicolas Roeg at the University of Aberdeen (01224 273874) on 29 April

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/film-and-tv/features/heath-ledger--a-prophetic-tragedy-795344.html
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Offline Meryl

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2008, 10:27:32 am »
Thanks, Leslie, that's really interesting, and timed just right for our discussion.  It's illuminating to read the history of the project and the depth of Heath's involvement.  It makes me want to cry at what we've lost.

In my dreams I see Ang directing it, beautifully, as a loving tribute to Heath.
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2008, 01:34:52 pm »
from The Independent, UK


Heath Ledger - a prophetic tragedy



Let me add my thanks, Leslie!  What a fascinating - and heartbreaking - article.

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2008, 01:44:12 pm »
I listened to both the interviews with Walter Tevis that I referenced earlier. They were interesting although the second one was cut short by 5 minutes...maybe it has something to do with my MP3 conversion. Who knows? I would definitely recommend listening to them.

Tevis died in 1984 of lung cancer. At the time of the interview, he was obviously not sick, because he talks about his plans to write "a book a year for the rest of my life." He also talked about writing a sequel to The Queen's Gambit as well as working on a screenplay for it! He had just finished the screenplay for The Color of Money, the sequel to The Hustler. He didn't know who would be in it but he hoped Paul Newman. No mention of Tom Cruise! LOL

Tevis also talks quite a bit about chess and his opinion of some of the leading players in the world.

Overall, the interviews gave me some interesting insight into the book, from the author's perspective.

L
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2008, 02:33:05 pm »
Leslie, let me add my thanks to those of the others for the article you posted. Interesting and illuminating.... and so, so sad that Heath didn't get to carry this project through.  :-\

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2008, 03:50:58 am »
Good work on all these finds, Super Sleuth Leslie.  I could also picture Todd Haynes doing a great job with it, judging by Far From Heaven.

It would be tricky to make into a movie, because of how much is internal, and how much of Beth's skills required her to have a poker chess face.

I also just remembered how geometric Heath's music videos are, and how a chess board would fit into that.
http://www.wearethemasses.com/musicvideos/nfa.html
http://www.wearethemasses.com/musicvideos/bh_reason.html

Has anyone had any luck actually finding any proof of Heath's ranking in the chess world?  I tried to a bit, by looking through some chess sites, both here and in Australia, using some of the terminology I learned from QG, but didn't find anything.  Super Sleuth?  :)

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2008, 08:33:14 am »

Heath Ledger's gambit to be a director


Article from: The Daily Telegraph



By Michelle Cazzulino

March 29, 2008 12:00am

TRUDGING through Washington State Park at 6.30am, the Oscar-nominated actor was almost indistinguishable from the other chess enthusiasts who had gathered there to play.

Despite his celebrity status, it was only after his death on January 22 that the extent of Heath Ledger's passion for the game - and his habit of dropping by the park - became apparent.

Now it has been revealed that the 28-year-old planned to combine his career and favourite pastime, making his directorial debut on the film adaption of Walter Tevis's 1983 novel The Queen's Gambit.

Tevis was also resonsible for books which were made into The Colour of Money, The Hustler and The Man Who Fell To Earth.

The chess screenplay, written by Alan Scott, chronicled the career of Beth Harmon, a troubled chess prodigy who battled an addiction to prescription drugs.

In the wake of Ledger's death, Scott said the actor had been involved in the project for the past 12 months. In addition to directing, he was also to have starred in it alongside Oscar-nominated actress Ellen Page from the surprise indy hit Juno.

It was an opportunity tailor-made for Ledger, Scott said.

"The movie is about chess, and what is a little known fact is Heath was very close to being on the grandmaster level.

"He was a chess whiz, and he intended to get his grandmaster rating before he started shooting the picture."

A section of the 109- page script, published in UK newspapers this week, reveals how closely the fictional Beth's reality mirrored Ledger's in the final few months of his life.

"There is noise coming from everywhere in the house. Her suitcase lies open on the bed, clothes spilling everywhere," the script reads.

"There are at least a dozen bottles of tranquiliser pills lying in the suitcase, stuffed into every corner, each with Mexican labels. She opens one of these, grabs a bottle of liquor, and drinks direct from the bottle to swallow two pills."

Ledger, who reportedly had trouble sleeping in the lead-up to his death, would stave off the insomnia with regular trips to Washington State Park, where accounts of his ability varied among the players.

"I saw him a few times, mostly last summer. He seemed like a nice guy," 63-year-old Earl Biggs said.

"He'd usually lose. We played for a couple of dollars and he'd lose a few dollars. He just had fun, he loved it. We'd talk trash talk at the chess table . . . we'd say things to him like, 'How can you make that move! How can you make a move like that!' And he'd just laugh."

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23446583-5001021,00.html
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2008, 06:19:22 pm »
Thanks Leslie, I lap these Heath chess and/or directing articles up!  I wonder if that's supposed to be "Washington Square Park?"

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2008, 07:15:02 pm »
Thanks Leslie, I lap these Heath chess and/or directing articles up!  I wonder if that's supposed to be "Washington Square Park?"

Hahahaha! I am sure it is! I didn't even notice....LOL

L
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Offline mariez

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2008, 08:04:27 am »

Heath Ledger's gambit to be a director


Article from: The Daily Telegraph

By Michelle Cazzulino

........
"He'd usually lose. We played for a couple of dollars and he'd lose a few dollars. He just had fun, he loved it. We'd talk trash talk at the chess table . . . we'd say things to him like, 'How can you make that move! How can you make a move like that!' And he'd just laugh."

Thanks for finding this, Leslie!  Wow - he intended to get his grandmaster rating - that's so impressive, but I love this image - playing just for the love of the game! 
Although it also makes my heart ache.   :'(

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

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Re: "The Queen's Gambit," a discussion ***Possible Spoilers***
« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2008, 08:22:31 am »
from The Bookreporter.com

THE QUEEN'S GAMBIT
Walter Tevis
Vintage Books
Fiction
ISBN: 1400030609


It was the spring of 1983. On a long plane trip, I started THE QUEEN'S GAMBIT by Walter Tevis, a just-published novel I'd bought on impulse. And I was gobsmacked. Tevis --- author of THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH and THE HUSTLER (and, later, THE COLOR OF MONEY) --- had written a book that, very simply, could not be put down. The woman who would become my first wife tried to talk to me; I shushed her. A meal came; I pushed it aside. All I could do was read, straight to the end --- weeping, cheering, punching the air.

When I got off the plane, I called the publisher about the film rights. A few months later, I was writing the greatest script I will probably ever undertake. Everyone wanted to star in it, everyone wanted to direct it. Then the parade moved on. I couldn't afford to keep the option. Walter Tevis died. His widow, needing money, sold the movie rights to people who will never get the film made. The book went out of print.

In 1986, when we started bookreporter.com, we decided to serialize a novel. Inevitably, we chose THE QUEEN'S GAMBIT. We had to pay $500, a fortune for us. But the payoff was huge. Our readers loved it --- we got scores of e-mails from people who'd printed the chapters out and put them into binders so they could pass it on to friends. We sent some of these letters to publishers. But the book stayed out of print.

Two decades later, it's available again --- there is, at long last, a paperback edition.

What's the fuss about? An eight-year-old orphan named Beth Harmon. Who turns out to be the Mozart of chess. Which brings her joy (she wins! people notice her!) and misery (she's alone and unloved and incapable of asking for help). So she gets addicted to pills. She drinks. She loses. And then, as 17-year-old Beth starts pulling herself together, she must face the biggest challenge of all --- a match with the world champion, a Russian of scary brilliance.

You think: This is thrilling? You think: chess? You think: Must be an "arty" novel, full of interior scenes.

Wrong. All wrong.

I tell you: THE QUEEN'S GAMBIT is "Rocky" for smart people.

I tell you: You will care about Beth Harmon more than any fictional character you've encountered in years and years.

I tell you: You will grasp the wrench of loneliness --- and the power of love --- as if this book were happening to you.

Do you need to know anything about chess? Nope. Nothing. Tevis was a storyteller whose genius was to tell great stories; there's nothing between you and the people.

Suggestion for a memorable evening: Buy two copies. Pick a friend or relative who loves to read. Hand him/her the book (and a box of Kleenex.). Start reading in the same room. See what happens.

My bet: You too will weep. And cheer. And at the end, raise your fist like a fool for a little girl who never existed and a game only wimps play.

   --- Reviewed by Jesse Kornbluth

http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews/1400030609.asp
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