Heath Ledger , last photographs

[Penthesilea]

Good points, Chrissi. 

I was thinking along the lines of a perfect world.  In a perfect world, someone would have been there to intervene before it was too late. 

I could easily make myself crazy just thinking of "if onlys". 

Indeed. The "if onlys..." 
You know, it reminds me of the time after seeing BBM for the first time. If only Jack would have said this, if only Ennis would have done that ... If only they had met again in November ... If only...
But back then, I could at least try to remind myself Ennis and Jack are fictional characters. I could at least try to believe Mrs. Proulx did not get it right, that she made a mistake with the ending. But this time I can't. It's worse. Heath has really died. If only...

[Penthesilea]

I don't think it has to be a perfect world,people just have to give as well as take.I would guess a lot of people took grom Heath,both in terms of demands on his acting schedule and also in terms of his celebrity.Not many seem to have given back,or even taken time to listen to both waht was said and unsaid.

Optom, you don't know this and I don't either. We just do not know, like I said before. And sorry I have to disagree, but I think speculating and playing the blame game doesn't help at all.

However there were still signs there,not least his own words,of how tired he was,and what a toll the role was taking on him.Even the obvious ,to me ,fact that he loved his daughter so much and yet was seeing so little of her,not even at Xmas I believe.That would upset any parent,yet alone one with seemingly other heavy burdens as well.

Again, you and I do not know how often or how rarely he saw Matilda. We read in magazines afterwards that he hadn't seen Matilda over X-mas. Might be true, might be false. Even if it is true, it doesn't mean anything. You and I do not know what was arranged between Heath and Michelle regarding their daughter. And rightfully so. It's none of our business.

Even if they offerered help and he turned it down,and we will never know the truth,there are ways of getting help for even the most stubborn of cases.

And here you are most wrong of all (sorry). I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen on a professional basis (I was a social worker) and I've seen it in my life.  And I'm sure others have, too. Sometimes you clearly see a person heading in a downwards spiral and all your attempts to help are fruitless. Sometimes you know how it will end years (yes: years) before and you can do nothing against it. I'm speaking generally here, not in regard to Heath.
But from your posting I get the feeling you indirectly blame his friends, family, the people close to him. Or the doctors who wrote the prescriptions. And I think it's not fair because (sorry, I've to repeat myself) we do not know what really went on in his private life.

Sometimes there is really nobody to blame.

I just see in preview what Susiebk wrote:

But in reality, all the moments of his life led one by one to that inescapable moment when he left us forever.  It is just so hard to bear sometimes.

Yes.
 

[optom3]

Optom, you don't know this and I don't either. We just do not know, like I said before. And sorry I have to disagree, but I think speculating and playing the blame game doesn't help at all.


Again, you and I do not know how often or how rarely he saw Matilda. We read in magazines afterwards that he hadn't seen Matilda over X-mas. Might be true, might be false. Even if it is true, it doesn't mean anything. You and I do not know what was arranged between Heath and Michelle regarding their daughter. And rightfully so. It's none of our business.


And here you are most wrong of all (sorry). I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen on a professional basis (I was a social worker) and I've seen it in my life.  And I'm sure others have, too. Sometimes you clearly see a person heading in a downwards spiral and all your attempts to help are fruitless. Sometimes you know how it will end years (yes: years) before and you can do nothing against it. I'm speaking generally here, not in regard to Heath.
But from your posting I get the feeling you indirectly blame his friends, family, the people close to him. Or the doctors who wrote the prescriptions. And I think it's not fair because (sorry, I've to repeat myself) we do not know what really went on in his private life.

Sometimes there is really nobody to blame.

I just see in preview what Susiebk wrote:

Yes.
 

Do you know what ,you are absoloutely right.That is something that is hard for me to admit to.I have carefully read and re read your post and you don,t need to say sorry for anything you have written.

I realise that what I have been doing is projecting my fears for my own son onto some one else.I guess that,s what scares me.I have watched as countless psychologists,psychiatrists,therapiats  et al have tried to gain some measure of control and comfort for him.I have read nearly every book and internet piece,
We have intervened in every twist of the downward spiral, and yet as you so eloquently wrote,both me and my husband have sometimes just looked and said ,
we know where this is going to end.I hope we are wrong.

I guess I am transferring all my anger towards complete strangers,very unfairly and un reasonably,because I feel so helpless.I know what you say is true,sometimes all efforts seem fruitless.I just know I have to keep on trying,in the hope that one day,some new medication or treatment will help.I also cling onto the vain hope that he has the same core of inner strength somewhere that I have,that will allow him to survive as long as I have.At one time I know my parents feared the worse for me too.

But I want more than that for him,I want him to be happy,not just survive on medication.I take back unreservedly,most of my previous post.Sometimes it takes a stranger to make you confront,albeit unknowingly,the root cause of your anger and distress.By then confronting those demons you aquire the strength to fight another day,so it may seem an odd thing to say ,but thankyou.

[Fran]

What a heartfelt and thoughtful post, optom!

((optom3))

[Penthesilea]

Oh wow, Optom. I'm really impressed by your posting. It takes a lot of guts to be so open and honest. Both, to yourself and here on the board.

I realise that what I have been doing is projecting my fears for my own son onto some one else.I guess that,s what scares me.I have watched as countless psychologists,psychiatrists,therapiats  et al have tried to gain some measure of control and comfort for him.I have read nearly every book and internet piece,
We have intervened in every twist of the downward spiral, and yet as you so eloquently wrote,both me and my husband have sometimes just looked and said ,
we know where this is going to end.I hope we are wrong.

(((Optom)))

I also have children. So while I'm not in your shoes and therefore can't say I know how you feel, I still may have an idea of it. As parents, I think we are never able to give up hope when it's about our children. And we should not give up hope. We as parents are the ones who never should give up trying. We may be exhausted sometimes, we may need a brake (and hopefully will be able to get it) - but I think giving up hope on your child is not an option for any parent.

So I'm glad to read you continue to hope and to fight. And I hope for you that those moments you spoke of, when you think you know where it will end, are caused by a momentarily exhaustion and you are able to see something different the next day or next week or whenever you had a time to take a breath for yourself.

Thank you for your openness. And a few more hugs can't hurt: (((Optom)))

[optom3]

Oh wow, Optom. I'm really impressed by your posting. It takes a lot of guts to be so open and honest. Both, to yourself and here on the board.

(((Optom)))

I also have children. So while I'm not in your shoes and therefore can't say I know how you feel, I still may have an idea of it. As parents, I think we are never able to give up hope when it's about our children. And we should not give up hope. We as parents are the ones who never should give up trying. We may be exhausted sometimes, we may need a brake (and hopefully will be able to get it) - but I think giving up hope on your child is not an option for any parent.

So I'm glad to read you continue to hope and to fight. And I hope for you that those moments you spoke of, when you think you know where it will end, are caused by a momentarily exhaustion and you are able to see something different the next day or next week or whenever you had a time to take a breath for yourself.

Thank you for your openness. And a few more hugs can't hurt: (((Optom)))

Bless you,
I have just seen my psychiatrist tonight and he said the new meds(mine) seem to be working.My reply ,they may well be ,but so is all the support and relief I gain from this forum.He was stumped for a reply!!!!
I had to start taking the meds again when the bipolar turned from manic to depressive,I also decided I would have to keep taking them even when I get through this phase,otherwise how can I ask my son to keep taking his,
To think all this started from a film,which finally opened so many floodgates ,that I was eventually led to this site.From then it has been a journey as little by little I have started to confront my demons and attempt to deal with them.
It has caused pain, as did the film,as it made me examine the lover route not taken,it caused guilt because I thought the move here would give me and my son and whole family a fresh start.Lots has gone wrong,but at least I am still here,still trying to learn from it all and make it work.
Some of the replies have ben hard,but the from them I have derived the opportunity for further evaluation.I dont feel brave,I feel blessed that people have had the courage to disagree with me and so make me really open my eyes.
Perhaps Better Most should be available on prescription!!!!!
I still hope that some where Heath knows how much good he has done.That would be a real comfort.
Thankyou yet again to so many kind and brave people for random acts of kindness.

[white_angel]

 This is the question my heart keeps asking.. why there was no physician  insist to follow up and see Heath Ledger condition and see  how the prescribe medicine on him is working?   You are right Optom3

.. and who gave him the prescription?


http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1582489/20080228/story.jhtml?rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler

[belbbmfan]

Optom3, your posts have warmed my heart, even though they have also been difficult to read because you can feel the pain come through.

I have just seen my psychiatrist tonight and he said the new meds(mine) seem to be working.My reply ,they may well be ,but so is all the support and relief I gain from this forum.He was stumped for a reply!!!!

Yeah! I loved reading that. Terrrific.

I dont feel brave,I feel blessed that people have had the courage to disagree with me and so make me really open my eyes.

You should feel brave, because you are!

Perhaps Better Most should be available on prescription!!!!!
I still hope that some where Heath knows how much good he has done.That would be a real comfort.
Thankyou yet again to so many kind and brave people for random acts of kindness.