Author Topic: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?  (Read 7169 times)

Offline optom3

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It struck me while reading(yet again) the story ,that Ennis comes across as slightly more tender and loving than he does in the film.One example being the reunion scene,where Proulx states "and Ennis not big on endearments.said what he said to his horses and daughters,little darlin"
Later in the motel scene he admits to Jack what happened when he left him saying he figured his gut wrenching moment was "that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights "

We know I think,that Ennis truly loves his daughters,as it is a love he can comfortably express,so by using the same phrase to Jack as he does to His daughters,we can deduce (I think) that he loves Jack.
I know that books and films are not exact copies of each other,what I find unusual,is that usually we have to fill in more gaps as a reader,than when watching a film.Yet here is the reverse.

Was it done because Ang wanted to add more pathos to the final scene,was he trying to make us the audience use our own imaginations,rather than being spoon fed.Or did he simply think that some members of society, would take the little darlin phrase, as a step too far,in an already potentially risque film.

 Personally, I would love to have heard him say, little darlin, and also admit to Jack,he wished he had not let him go.The former because it is just so loving,and the latter because in the end Jack does go. Ennis has in fact let him go once,through choice ,and then again by his untimely death.So to me it would have added even more tragedy, by knowing that Ennis realises he has let go twice.

I suppose I would also have liked to see Jack have the small crumbs of comfort in the film that he does in the book.

I would appreciate any opinions,as it continues to bother me.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 01:29:13 pm »
Great observations and questions Fiona!  :)

I think there's more than one reason for Ennis' different behaviour. One is that Ennis in the story is more conscious about himself and his feelings for Jack. Therefore he can be more vocal about it.

Another reason is that the reunion sequence (from which your examples are) is different in movie and story. And Ang Lee gave us (and Jack) other small tender moments: the prayer of thanks for example.

A third reason is that Ang could give us visuals Annie Proulx couldn't (well, theoretically, she could have, but it would have made another story): the way Ennis' face lits up when he exits his car at the camping trip where Jack puts the corn into a pot, the embrace that follows, Ennis beaming at Jack after they untangled the Chilean sheep from theirs, the third tent scene, etc.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 01:35:09 pm »
And The Nuzzle! How could I forget this? There was a whole thread dedicated to it ("Ode to The Nuzzle" on IMDB back then; I think it might well be in the Remarkable writings from IMDB rewound forum).

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2008, 01:39:03 pm »
I agree.
The Ennis in the movie is much harder and more reserved than the Ennis in the book.
I loved that in the story where he calls Jack Lil Darlin.
It is one of the most beautiful endearments. However, in the movie we get the Dozy Embrace and I think that makes up for it. That is one of the most tender and moving scenes from any movie. It is so short lived though. I hate where it cuts from sweet sleepy Jack watching Ennis ride up the tend the sheep to older angry Jack watching Ennis drive away! Again.
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Offline optom3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2008, 03:23:23 pm »
And The Nuzzle! How could I forget this? There was a whole thread dedicated to it ("Ode to The Nuzzle" on IMDB back then; I think it might well be in the Remarkable writings from IMDB rewound forum).

Love that scene,and also when they are in the motel and rather than reply to Jack,Ennis just rubs his arm.Lost count of how many times I have watched those scenes.I wonder if one day I will watch them without a years supply of tissues.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2008, 03:39:50 pm »
Thinking about the things I said earlier, I tend to say Ennis in the movie is just as tender/loving as Ennis in the story is. Only in a different way. M.Ennis is just less vocal about it.

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 03:59:47 pm »
Thinking about the things I said earlier, I tend to say Ennis in the movie is just as tender/loving as Ennis in the story is. Only in a different way. M.Ennis is just less vocal about it.
Good Point!
I guess because of the subtleties you don't pick up on it as much. In the movie the tenderness is in a look or an embrace (like Fiona mentioned in her last post). Even when they are on their last camping trip and Jack tells Ennis how he misses him he seems cold then you see him holding Jack in the tent.
I think the book Ennis though, was more open to the possibilities of the sweet life Jack wanted. I say this because of his admission of shouldn't have let him outta his sights and the gut cramps etc. In the movie I never thought Ennis would have been opend to any life with Jack other than what they had. However in the book it seems like Ennis thought about it and if he had a bit more courage when they came off the mountain could have done it.
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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2008, 01:00:48 am »
It struck me while reading(yet again) the story ,that Ennis comes across as slightly more tender and loving than he does in the film.One example being the reunion scene,where Proulx states "and Ennis not big on endearments.said what he said to his horses and daughters,little darlin"
Later in the motel scene he admits to Jack what happened when he left him saying he figured his gut wrenching moment was "that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights "

We know I think,that Ennis truly loves his daughters,as it is a love he can comfortably express,so by using the same phrase to Jack as he does to His daughters,we can deduce (I think) that he loves Jack.
I know that books and films are not exact copies of each other,what I find unusual,is that usually we have to fill in more gaps as a reader,than when watching a film.Yet here is the reverse.

Was it done because Ang wanted to add more pathos to the final scene,was he trying to make us the audience use our own imaginations,rather than being spoon fed.Or did he simply think that some members of society, would take the little darlin phrase, as a step too far,in an already potentially risque film.

 Personally, I would love to have heard him say, little darlin, and also admit to Jack,he wished he had not let him go.The former because it is just so loving,and the latter because in the end Jack does go. Ennis has in fact let him go once,through choice ,and then again by his untimely death.So to me it would have added even more tragedy, by knowing that Ennis realises he has let go twice.

I suppose I would also have liked to see Jack have the small crumbs of comfort in the film that he does in the book.

I would appreciate any opinions,as it continues to bother me.

these really are excellent observations. I noted that Ennis is more loving and expressive in the ss, he calls Jack "Little Darling" in the ss. Jack is also more expressive, showing that he enjoyed the sex in the tent scene exclaiming "Guns going off". some critics of the movie saw that scene as a "prison rape scene". of course it was nothing like that it was mutually enjoyable.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2008, 12:22:49 pm »
I do think that the Ennis in s.s. is slightly more tender than the Ennis in the movie; or,at least ans better said,he's not so afraid of showing his love for Jack more clearly.It seems as if in the movie Ennis was still more reluctant to accept Jack's dreams of a "sweet life together" and as if it remarks more his fears and doubts,on one side,and the excuses that became a reason for not committing himself.on the other side-such as his daughters or the economical duties-.There's also less communication on Ennis part about his feelings,and a good proof is the motel scene;however,the movie shows us some lovely details-more subtle...-about what he feels for Jack:the prayer of thanks,several glances that speak volumes,or the final breakdown in Jack's arms,that is not so evident in s.s.,f.e.
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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 03:33:15 pm »
When we all watched the movie yesterday, I thought I heard Ennis say, "'scuze me darlin" to Junior when he got up from the table to dance with Cassie. Or did he say, "'scuze me daughter?" It's important because I guess that would be the only instance of "darlin" in the film.


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Offline Monika

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 03:39:07 pm »
I listened to it just now and I hear "darling" but it´s hard to tell


btw for some reason I can´t even imagine movieEnnis calling Jack "little Darling".

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 03:53:15 pm »
He does say "darlin" and at the end of the day when he drops her off, he says "bye sweetheart".


Anyway, I think that there was an overall effort to make Jack + Ennis complement and contrast each other more for the film.  Heath's hair was lightened and Jake's was darkened, the contrasting hat colors and wardrobe, etc.

^ That's the superficial visual level of course, but it was done on the character level too... Hence Ennis's greater introversion in the film.  I agree that in the book, E + J are much closer together in their level of expressiveness.  But Brokeback Mountain is all about hesitation and missed opportunity, and Ang Lee is all about restraint — so one character must be 'tamped down'.  Ennis is the natural choice for this, as his Earl experience serves as the pivotal trauma which would logically shut down anyone's spirit.

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 04:39:29 pm »
Ennis in the SS was definitely more vocal about his feelings for jack.
Even the sex part.


Offline optom3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 02:24:10 pm »
I find myself being drawn to both movie and s.s Ennis in different ways. When I first readthe s.s, which I did before seeing the film, I just sobbed. The sentence right at the very end of the s.s. where it says, "he would awake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release, the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

That sentence has me in pieces, it is so unbearably sad. Also the sentence "the huge sadness of the northern planes rolled down on him"  In each case so few words, so much pathos.

It makes me cry all over again. Ennis is completely thrown by the postcard he receives with deceased stamped on it, he tries to convince himself it is a mistake, he will ring Jack and he will answer the phone and everything will be fine. Only it isn't.

Yet again I find Ennis of the story  more tender. It is not that movie Ennis is not tender, he is,but in different ways. I am drawn into the film pretty early on, by the shuffling Ennis outside Aguirre's office. I am completely bowled over by him in TS2. So maybe I have just argued myself full circle !!!

The movie Ennis is more one of gestures and little subtelties. The s.s Ennis is more verbal. When I think about it sensible, those differences are largely due to the different media.

Certainly both have the same effect on me. A sobbing, emotional wreck. I feel as if I have been put through a mangle several times over.

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 04:50:10 pm »
I find myself being drawn to both movie and s.s Ennis in different ways. When I first readthe s.s, which I did before seeing the film, I just sobbed. The sentence right at the very end of the s.s. where it says, "he would awake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release, the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

That sentence has me in pieces, it is so unbearably sad. Also the sentence "the huge sadness of the northern planes rolled down on him"  In each case so few words, so much pathos.

It makes me cry all over again. Ennis is completely thrown by the postcard he receives with deceased stamped on it, he tries to convince himself it is a mistake, he will ring Jack and he will answer the phone and everything will be fine. Only it isn't.

Yet again I find Ennis of the story  more tender. It is not that movie Ennis is not tender, he is,but in different ways. I am drawn into the film pretty early on, by the shuffling Ennis outside Aguirre's office. I am completely bowled over by him in TS2. So maybe I have just argued myself full circle !!!

The movie Ennis is more one of gestures and little subtelties. The s.s Ennis is more verbal. When I think about it sensible, those differences are largely due to the different media.

Certainly both have the same effect on me. A sobbing, emotional wreck. I feel as if I have been put through a mangle several times over.

Im the same way Fiona!
They both have an effect on me.
However, I am glad I saw the movie first. I could more easily identify with the onscreen Ennis and that is why it hiit me as hard as it did.
I don't know, maybe the SS would have. We'll never know because I read that after seeing the movie.
Anyhow, the movie is how me got here........
Thank you Ennis...
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

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Offline optom3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 05:35:15 pm »
Im the same way Fiona!
They both have an effect on me.
However, I am glad I saw the movie first. I could more easily identify with the onscreen Ennis and that is why it hiit me as hard as it did.
I don't know, maybe the SS would have. We'll never know because I read that after seeing the movie.
Anyhow, the movie is how me got here........
Thank you Ennis...

It is odd, but the movie delivered an enormous  kick, even though I knew what was coming. I had my own pictures of Jack and Ennis and Heath and Jake were so unlike the ss description and my pictures, I was able to see the movie almost as if I had not read the book. I can remember after reading the story, lying on my bed sobbing.
It was the same with the movie, The ending just pole axed me.For some reason the scene with Ennis in his trailer with shirts and postcard, did not get to me as badly in the ss as it did in the movie. I think that is because it is not the final thing in the story.There is the waking in grief bit.

One thing for sure, I have never been so affected by either a story or film in nearly 50 years and I suspect I never will be again.  It is also the movie that got me here, after months of lurking on IMDB and Ennis Jack. Right now I just wish we could turn back time.

Offline optom3

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Re: Is Ennis in the shrt story more tender/loving than in the film?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2009, 08:39:04 pm »
It struck me a while ago, then I promptly forgot until last night, that S.S Ennis is more honest about his feelings than movie Ennis. He openly admits in the motel scene, that he was sick after they came down and finally figured out that it was because he should never have let Jack go.He continues that it was too late by the time he realised.

The fact he says it took him about a year to figure out, implies he had also spent some time thinking about it.Surely the fact he admits to being sick is as near an admission to love as one can get. He literally was love sick.
 He also, almost pleadingly asks if Jack has done it with other men.Here again we have what amounts to almost a need for reassurance from Jack. Not the words of a man who is not open to his feelings.
 S.S Ennis seems far more in touch with what he is feeling and the whole situation, the problem being that those feelings "scare the piss out a me" A phrase that is missing from the movie.The fact that he is so scared of the consequences is what immobilises and restrains him, not necessarily the idea that he can't accept the feelings.

I love both film and story and actually love the fact that different facets are explored in the two. It seems the one complements and expands the other.The movie fleshing out and making more tangible the bittersweet tragedy. If asked, I would be unable to say which I love most.

I still,( my long term moan, )would have loved to hear Ennis mumble almost incoherently, little darlin to Jack at the reunion kiss. My heart would have melted even more. Just like the whispered, reassurances in TS2.

I surrender, when will this BBM effect ever subside. I suspect, never is the answer to that one.

He even admits in the story that he hates it that Jack is going to drive away in the morning.