Author Topic: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......  (Read 7876 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2008, 07:34:54 pm »
Though there's obviously more damaging homophobia in the world than there is Brokaphobia,  ;)  I think the average straight person has a better understanding of -- or at least, familiarity with -- gayness than the average non-Brokie does of Brokieism. Even if they don't like gay people, they're at least familiar with their existence and grasp their motivations at some level.

Brokieism, they just don't get at all. It doesn't make sense to people. It's kind of like being a Trekkie or Star Wars fanatic, which people probably don't fully get, either, but again are at least more familiar with.

From my experience (others may disagree), a BBM obsession is particularly confusing to people if you're straight. For gay men, I would think, the connection might seem obvious. For gay women, there are if nothing else political reasons for loving BBM. But for straight people -- what's up with that? Sure it's a good movie, but there are lots of good movies. What's the big deal about this particular one?? That's what I imagine non-Brokies thinking.

I think it makes some people even secretly question your sexual orientation. And while in principle I have no big objection to that, it can be awkward wondering if people misunderstand you in that way -- especially if it's your husband and kids!  :laugh:




Offline optom3

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2008, 10:39:49 pm »
Heya,

Yep, I agree, one of the hardest parts about imagining "coming out as a Brokie" to non-Brokies in "real life" is that it would be really hard to explain.  It would be hard to convey how important and even profound the experience is for me.  I wouldn't want it to come across that this experience is simply about being something as un-complex as "being a fan."  Mostly, the idea of trying to explain it sounds sort of exhausting.

There's an old saying that goes something like... "if you have to ask you'll never know"... and to a certain extent I think this applies a bit to the experience of being a Brokie.  Those of us who are Brokies really, really know it, and understand.  And people seek out these forums and Brokie communities.  Again, it would just be hard to convey all that this means to someone who's on the "outside" of the whole experience (and especially to someone who didn't like the movie or was only lukewarm in reaction to it).



Oh that sums it up beautifully.I feel tired just thinking of trying to explain it.Also if I have to explain it then they wont get it anyway otherwise they too would be a brokie.As a sraight woman it seems een more incomprehensible to some folk.I have been called kinky,weird you name it.So now I jus keep shut up.I got do fed up with trying to explain it is a gut wrenching love story of life changing impact,to be greeted with blank looks .
I now figure it's their loss .I am enriched and they have missed something so rewarding.Closed mind syndrome is my name for it.

Offline Katie77

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2008, 11:42:38 pm »
From my experience (others may disagree), a BBM obsession is particularly confusing to people if you're straight. For gay men, I would think, the connection might seem obvious. For gay women, there are if nothing else political reasons for loving BBM. But for straight people -- what's up with that? Sure it's a good movie, but there are lots of good movies. What's the big deal about this particular one?? That's what I imagine non-Brokies thinking.

I think it makes some people even secretly question your sexual orientation. And while in principle I have no big objection to that, it can be awkward wondering if people misunderstand you in that way -- especially if it's your husband and kids!  :laugh:





I agree completely......

Yes......I remember......I remember someone saying to me one time..."Why would YOU like a gay movie?"....they probably were not thinking I was gay, but more so, could not understand why a straight woman would like it......maybe they did think I might be gay....hunh.....oh well, who gives a flying f***)

I do think though, if I were a straight man, going around raving about what a great movie it was, it would most probably be taken that I had gay tendancies, and for that reason, I think that there are a lot of straight men out there, who did enjoy the movie, but keep it to themselves, and some who might never have even dared go to a public theatre to watch it, for those same reasons. And.....I think, not that those straight men are necessarily homophobic but they just do not want to be quizzed about their sexuality, just because they like a particular movie.

Similarly, the responses I received, when I would mention the movie.....from straight women, it was, more or less a response about the movie in general, the actors, or the story, or if it was slow, or if the scenery was nice.

From straight men, the response, was nearly always about the gay theme, nothing else, just the gay theme. As if it was a taboo subject to talk about let alone put up there on the big screen. Some were quietly objectionable but a few were openly hostile. I actually got a surprise, to find that a couple of my friends who I had known for many years were downright blatantly homophobic.

I think, sometimes, I mentioned BBM and my admiration for the story, to not only say what a great movie it was, but to also make a statement that I am NOT homophobic, to be able to talk openly that the love story in the movie, was as normal as any other love story, that the story is not fictional, it is happening everywhere and as long as there are people who think of it as wrong, or abnormal, then there will be tragedies, and unhappiness. All it needs is understanding and acceptance......even if the person I was talking to, did not agree directly to me, at least it gave them something to go away and think about.

I think most of us Brokies think of BBM as a love story, beautifully written, and acted out by some brilliant actors...the gay theme is part of it, not ALL of it....

I guess we should not expect outsiders to understand us completely......gee, WE didn't understand ourselves at first, thought we were crazy, wondered what was going on....we have had the people here at Bettermost to help us understand......I guess its not understanding I was looking for, it was more a bit of respect for my beliefs, and some acknowledgement that the movie, did have a real story to tell and that it was told with dignity and passion.

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2008, 11:43:33 pm »

From my experience (others may disagree), a BBM obsession is particularly confusing to people if you're straight. For gay men, I would think, the connection might seem obvious. For gay women, there are if nothing else political reasons for loving BBM. But for straight people -- what's up with that? Sure it's a good movie, but there are lots of good movies. What's the big deal about this particular one?? That's what I imagine non-Brokies thinking.



I agree with this aspect of explaining Brokie-ness as being slightly confusing or difficult.  For me, it's not so much political affinity... it's more that I love a good gay love story, whether it's between men or women.  So, on the most basic level, I suppose that was my initial interest in or attraction to seeing BBM.  Of course, from there my identity as a Brokie has become hugely more complex.

Sometimes I have a "throw caution to the wind" type urge to just send a link to BetterMost to my best friend (who is a gay man) and just see what his reaction would be to my involvement with this website and the Brokie community.  But, even with him I think he wouldn't understand... and I always stop myself from "revealing my secret identity" even to him.  Although, he knows I love BBM and he did too (but his appreciation for it never, ever rose to the level of Brokie-ness or Brokie fever).

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2008, 02:18:56 am »
I do think though, if I were a straight man, going around raving about what a great movie it was, it would most probably be taken that I had gay tendancies, and for that reason, I think that there are a lot of straight men out there, who did enjoy the movie, but keep it to themselves, and some who might never have even dared go to a public theatre to watch it, for those same reasons.

I've known only two or three genuine Brokies who were straight men. And I'll have to say that even I have secretly at times wondered whether they were "really" straight. Which is such an odd thing to confess, for a Brokie. Because on the one hand I can't see why anyone, straight or gay, male or female, could not be as in love with the movie as I am. But I've met so few straight male Brokies that, statistically, when I think about the few people out of hundreds, I can't help sometimes wondering. Sorry, straight male Brokies, you have every reason to love BBM too, and all the more credit to you for it!  :)



I agree with this aspect of explaining Brokie-ness as being slightly confusing or difficult.  For me, it's not so much political affinity... it's more that I love a good gay love story, whether it's between men or women.  So, on the most basic level, I suppose that was my initial interest in or attraction to seeing BBM.  Of course, from there my identity as a Brokie has become hugely more complex.

When I say political, I mean that not only in the strictest sense but also just the sense of the empowerment and recognition from seeing such a great movie about gay people in love. I would think that, if I were gay, that aspect would take on much more weight, if only because I'd be so sick of seeing almost nothing but straight love stories in movie after movie over the years.


« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 08:40:42 am by ineedcrayons »

Offline Sandy

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2008, 09:56:07 am »

The reason I haven’t come out properly is because I can’t take the negative reactions.   When I first saw the film, I was so overwhelmed, bewildered and exhilarated that I couldn’t think straight.  I have now got some perspective and my calm thoughts have come back but the film is so personal to me that I can’t take any criticism.  I feel safe discussing the issues here because I know I am in like-minded company.  We might not all share the same viewpoint, but the love for the film binds us.

I have a fairly open minded, mixed bunch of friends but I tentatively stuck my toe out of the closet and knew immediately that I couldn’t really confide this in them because they just wouldn’t get it.  I have thrown BBM into conversation and have actually been horrified at some of the reactions I have gotten-how can you know someone for years and not know that (for all their alleged respect for others) they are in fact a complete bigot and won’t even watch it?

As you all know, my husband has been my rock but the funny thing is that I have only recently not felt a little shy when discussing. He is upset at this because he has always backed me.  I have now completely got over this and the rate at which I chatter he probably wishes I hadn’t!  But, the comments here apply to him.  He is not a ‘Brokie’ but liked the film.  When I do (casually) chat about the film, he defends it and others (including his work colleagues) have laughed at him and slagged him off.  Not cool. 

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2008, 10:03:51 am »
Hi Sandy!

I totally agree with you about not being able to stand criticism/negative reactions about Brokeback.  I can completely sympahtize with that feeling.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2008, 10:24:43 am »
I totally agree with you about not being able to stand criticism/negative reactions about Brokeback.  I can completely sympahtize with that feeling.

Me too. I'll have to say that the worst reaction I heard from anyone was kind of mild indifference or lack of sufficient enthusiasm -- no one in real life has said anything overtly homophobic to me.

But even when someone says they outright liked the movie it's not completely satisfying, because it never seems like they like it quite enough. They might say, "Yeah, that was a good movie," when what I want them to say is, "Are you kidding? Seeing it changed my life, I'm totally obsessed, I long to spend hours a day on a Brokeback website analyzing it."  :laugh:




Offline Mandy21

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2008, 10:34:13 am »
Hey Kath, I agree totally with what you said.  I have tried and tried and tried to get either/or of my two boyfriends to watch this with me, with no success yet.  They come to my house, they see the Collector's Edition of the DVD sitting bare on top of the entertainment center (no point in putting it back in its case, I'd just have to get it out again every day to watch it), they see the postcards that came with the C.E. stuck to my fridge, they see the book "BbM, Story to Screenplay" laying by my bed, they see the wallpaper on my computer of Ennis and Jack leaning up against a truck, they know I spend hours and hours every day reading this website and IMDB's website and making friends and answering and posing questions to other Brokies.  They both know all this, that this is an integral part of me.  I've known one of them for 12 years, he is the love of my life and I am his, and the other one for 8 years.

But I wonder,

do they really know me at all if they can't even sit down and watch this movie with me......

Kinda scary...
Dawn is coming,
Open your eyes...

Offline optom3

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Re: "Coming Out" as a Brokie.......
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2008, 02:16:33 pm »
Hi Sandy!

I totally agree with you about not being able to stand criticism/negative reactions about Brokeback.  I can completely sympathize with that feeling.



Me too in a nutshell.I dipped my toe in the water as someone here said,and was horrified by the reaction of some of my friends.With one interesting exception.My oldest "best" friend is deeply religious ad I was talking to her re BBM.She went out and rented it.And was blown away.Her reaction surprised me in a positive way.
I don't know why.I have always loved her because she embodies for me all that religion should be,tolerance,non judgemental and forgiving.She lets the way she lives her life,speak for her faith,and it has not been an easy life!!!!
She knows my life well enough to not be surprised at my reaction to BBM in fact she said,I bet that cut pretty deep!!!
Some of my so called liberal friends have been scathing in the extreme.That hurts,as does the fact that their intolerance is something that makes me look at them in a new light.It is hard to cope with criticism of BBM ,but it is equally hard to discover some friends are not the people you thought they were.That their so called tolerance and liberalism is on the surface only,almost for show,and that if you scratch the surface you find deep rooted prejudices.
I still maintain even more that it is their problem not mine.
As an interesting codicil,I was getting my daughter tested with a psychologist for gifted school this am.We arrived,me with BBM story and screenplay in hand.When he saw it he was nearly apoplectic,and told me just to put it way.This is a Jewish man whose parents were persecuted in WW2 and had to flee to the states.So he knows all about prejudice and persecution,yet his reaction was the most extreme.I thought he would of all people understand.He dismissed it out of hand.
I once thought that the people who "got" BBM would be those who knew of,had experienced,prejudice or heartbreak on some level.Now I will have to re think.
Now I think it is more simple, be open minded and open hearted.and live and let live without judgement.