who/what in BBBM/real life would you like to "fix "rather than stand?

[optom3]

This post combines the most important,preciuos things in my life. My children,BBM, Heath and music.
In the film Ennis famously says  "If you can't fix it you got a stand it"
There is a beautiful Coldplay song called "Fix you"

When you try your best but you don't succeed,
when you get what you want but not what you need,
when you feel so tired that you cn't sleep,
stuck in reverse

And the tears come streaming down your face,
when you lose something you can't replace,
when you love someone and it goes to waste,
could it be worse?

lights will guide you home,
and ignite your bones,
and I will try to fix you.

High up above and down below
when your'e too in love to let it go,
but if you never try you'll never know
just what your worth.

So much of this resonates for me, both with the film and my life.

For my eldest son, "when you try so hard and you don't succed"  but "I will try to fix you"

For Heath 'when you feel so tired that you can't sleep"
also  "when you get what you want" (critical and artistic success)  "but not what you need" (all the fame that went with it ,
which he seemed not made to cope with)

For Jack "when you love someone and it goes to waste" When your'e too in love to let it go"

For Ennis "and the tears come streaming down your face when you lose something you cant replace"

For me ,I would give anything to be able to fix my son,instead of standing it.

I wish that someone had been able to fix Heath,instead of him having to stand it.

It goes without saying,that for BBM I would have loved for them both to be able to fix it. But then would it have impacted the way it has.Had that been the case.

For me personally I would love to be able to fix my personal life instead of standing it.

I would love to hear from you all,who or waht you would like to fix,in any context.Also if the words of the song resonate with you, re the film in the same way they do with me.

All opinions, agree,disagree welcome. I like to see things from others point of view.If you dont know the song try, to listen to it,its on you tube and I just love it!!!!

[Mandy21]

Good morning, Fiona, I loved your post, and the analogy you made with the Coldplay song.  I lived in Britain for about a year, got very much into Coldplay while over there, and love this particular song and its lyrics.

What I wish I could fix, rather than stand, is the fact that I let so many people break my heart.  I'm not just talking about actual people that I know.  I'm talking about everywhere I go, I see some stranger, someone working at the library that recognizes me cause I go there every day, some checker at the grocery store cause I go there every day, some elderly woman that I stop to help, some loose dog that comes into my yard that I get back home, some old man walking down my street with his cane.  Just anybody, basically.  My heart breaks, just like that.  I want to help everybody.  And all the while, my life, by most people's standards, is so ridiculously pathetic....  I've always been the kind of person who thinks of others first, long before any thoughts of themself.  Whether it's a blessing or a curse, I don't know.  All I know is it hurts, to feel so much for so many.

[forsythia12]

well, i'm not sure if my answer suits the question, but i'm a fixer.  i run to the nearest solution, or quick fix when something goes wrong.  i'm not one for 'standing' stuff.
i get a headache, i pop a tylenol
my kids get sick, i worry, i medicate, i take them to doctor's, even if it's minor.
something breaks, i need it fixed right away.
things don't work out the way i want them to, i'll give up or try something else. 

in fact, i'm not sure what i've 'stood'.  i guess there have been times when i've had no other choice and i just can't fix something, and like ennis said, if you can't, then you've got to stand it....but i scramble....that's for sure.
i don't think i'm one for tolerating things.  frankly , i think if i were jack, i wouldv'e left ennis 'cause i couldn't stand the heartache anymore.......not because i think he should've, or that i blame ennis, i just know myself, and i'm not good at enduring things. 

i think i'm the person who wants everything fixed, and fast because tolerance, patience, acceptance, and all those other attributes it takes to 'stand' something are my weaknesses......unfortunately.

[elomelo]

'Fix You' is a beautiful song - thanks for sharing! I think another song by Coldplay that could fit the universe/theme of Brokeback..hmm...possibly 'The Scientist' and the following lines from the song:

Nobody said it was easy
It's such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
Nobody said it would be this hard

As for fixing rather than standing...maybe extend Jack and Ennis's stay on the mountain by that whole month they miss out. It would give them more time to bond and to come to term with their feelings, and though the parking lot scene may reoccur, they'd leave with more memories of each other and perhaps, the three year wait could be shortened by...well, a lot!

I wouldn't really 'fix' much in the movie because, as someone pointed out, it would lose its impact and overall 'BAM'-ness. Everything was subtle yet so apparent...ah, I drive myself in circles with this!

I know I can't fix this but if I could, Heath wouldn't have passed away and would have grown and given the world more tastes of his talent, and truly make a mark in the world of cinema.

[Artiste]

Interesting optom!

Would I fix it so we, the viewers, would see l o n g e r sex scene?

Would you?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Interesting optom!

Would I fix it so we, the viewers, would see l o n g e r sex scene?

Would you?

Au revoir,
hugs!

I think the only thing I would fix in the movie is to see more of the 2 of them and their "fishing trips" More of Ennis and Jack, but then I am just plain greedy.More for the  emotional/loving scenes,(like the motel) and also just some of the rare glimpses of camaraderie we saw.
Oh to see more of that smile of Ennis,gentle,shy and wry !!!!
Ok and some more glimpses of toned flesh and mad unreigned pasion would not go amiss.But I guess mainstream film viewers were not ready for that.
But I guess most of all I would like to have had it fixed that Heath had not died.
Even watching Casanova now makes me cry.He smiles a lot in that.
In real life as said I would love to fix my son.

[Artiste]

Thanks optom!

Wow:

I think the only thing I would fix in the movie is to see more of the 2 of them and their "fishing trips" More of Ennis and Jack, but then I am just plain greedy.More for the  emotional/loving scenes,(like the motel) and also just some of the rare glimpses of camaraderie we saw.
Oh to see more of that smile of Ennis,gentle,shy and wry !!!!
Ok and some more glimpses of toned flesh and mad unreigned pasion would not go amiss.But I guess mainstream film viewers were not ready for that.
But I guess most of all I would like to have had it fixed that Heath had not died.
Even watching Casanova now makes me cry.He smiles a lot in that.
In real life as said I would love to fix my son.
 
 
 

..........

And would you add some fish in some of those scenes?

Or only one fish to the basket so that will puzzle Alma? Dare I ask?

Would you have Ennis and Jack in a boat as in this pic herein?

And like the enclosed flower for Alma or Lureen??

Au revoir Fiona,

hugs!!   P.S. Be happy how is you son lately and to-day!! Hugs to him, your husband, all you family and friends... from moi!!

[Penthesilea]

In BBM, I would have Lureen to answer Ennis's phone call with "Jack? Sure, he's just in the other room. Wait a minute, I'll get him on the phone."

I've always been convinced Ennis was almost there, almost all the way around the coffeepot, almost had found the handle. Not that he would have made any big announcements or would have told Jack he'd like to move in with him first thing on November, 7 - but something was beginning to shift in Ennis, and with babysteps, he would have finally made it.
And getting such a postcard (wrongly) stamped 'deceased' would have been quite a smack on the head for Ennis.

This would be all right, Jack would answer, had to answer.

If only....


Stepping back and taking a look on the story from the outside perspective - no, I wouldn't change the slightest thing. It's perfect as it is.

[optom3]

To Artiste.
I would give the flowers to Ennis to put on Jacks grave,sad I know.But I would have Ennis keep just one bloom and have him press it to preseve it with the shirts,there forever.
Personally I think the boat picture is stunning almost like a Turner, but I would not have had the 2 of them in it. Nor would I have had any real fishing.
I just love the analogy of the 2 of them 'fishing" for love.But never quite catching each other,a bit like Alma notes they never catch any fish.

On a serous note I guess I would not change a thing a it is just perfect as it is.Tht's why I till cry every time I watch it ans still obsess over it.

Son is not bad at moment,have a look at your post is jack dead and you will see in my reply all about my sons latest exploits.

[Artiste]

Thanks Penthesilea !!

  Stepping back and taking a look on the story from the outside perspective - no, I wouldn't change the slightest thing. It's perfect as it is.

..........

Yes! Nice to dream as you did, too!

Hugs!

[Artiste]

Thanks Fiona!

I just love the analogy of the 2 of them 'fishing" for love.But never quite catching each other,a bit like Alma notes they never catch any fish.

 

...........

Optom: may I say that I LOVE YOUR sentence!! So well thought! And written! I can see you being a writer for the BM II !! You wrote scripts?

Hugs!

[Mandy21]

I've always been convinced Ennis was almost there, almost all the way around the coffeepot, almost had found the handle. If only....

Wow, Pent, what a great line -- "almost all the way around the coffeepot".  I'm gonna think of that line every time I watch BBM, from here on out, thanks.  I believe the same thing...

[optom3]

Thanks Fiona!

...........

Optom: may I say that I LOVE YOUR sentence!! So well thought! And written! I can see you being a writer for the BM II !! You wrote scripts?

Hugs!

Now you are making me blush!!!!!!
I used to write short stories and my friends are always on at me to write  book.Sometimes I think about it,baed on incidents in my life,then I get cold feet.
Metaphorically speaking as it is actually pretty warm here in Florida.
Who knows maybe one day'
If so you can do the cover illustration!!!!!


xxx Fiona

[elomelo]

I love the fishing for love concept! Brilliant!

Someone please refresh my memory; I remember hearing this saying and possibly from Brokeback, either the movie or SS, but I just can't put my finger on it. Fishing in the dark.

[Penthesilea]

Wow, Pent, what a great line -- "almost all the way around the coffeepot".  I'm gonna think of that line every time I watch BBM, from here on out, thanks.  I believe the same thing...

I can only take half the credit for it. My FRiend FRont-Ranger brought up a similar line long ago. I don't remember how exactly she phrased it, but she used Ennis's coffeepot metapher to describe him.
But thank you anyway. 

[Artiste]

Say Fiona:

If so you can do the cover illustration!!!!!

 

........

I would illustrate you kissing Jack's twin or Jack?? Which you prefer?

Or would you rather I place you in bed with both ?? I wonder what your husband would say to that ménage à 3?? Or would he join in... pour 4?
..........

Do write a book! Composed of your mini stories! As your life is vived like mine is: rich to enrich us all too!!

......

Would you fix Jack or Ennis with another as to match each or one with a new boyfriend??
Or would each stand waiting for the old buddy, rather than kiss a new one??

Dare I ask?

Hugs!

[optom3]

Say Fiona:
........

I would illustrate you kissing Jack's twin or Jack?? Which you prefer?

Or would you rather I place you in bed with both ?? I wonder what your husband would say to that ménage à 3?? Or would he join in... pour 4?
..........

Do write a book! Composed of your mini stories! As your life is vived like mine is: rich to enrich us all too!!

......

Would you fix Jack or Ennis with another as to match each or one with a new boyfriend??
Or would each stand waiting for the old buddy, rather than kiss a new one??

Dare I ask?

Hugs!

Artiste ask what you want.
I  can see that over there  on "planet Artiste" life can take some real surreal turns. I am starting to feel that I have entered aparallel universe created by the love child of Dr Zeus and Roald Dahl!!!!!
Whatever you are on I want some please!!!!!

Personally in my fantasy world I would be quite happy with Heath back with us as Ennis, and reunited with Jack.They would of course live in a farm by a river so that they could go fishing every day,It would not matter if they caught nothing,because of course they would already have the catch of the day,each other.
There would be no fishing  jokes about the one that got away!!!!!
Of course they would have a a long lost adonis of a cousin/brother just waiting for you.!!!!!
Me, well I will just film the action,and of course if any demonstration of technique or personal choreography was needed,than I would be only to happy to stand in for either.Purely in the interest of artistic merit of course.

Meanwhile back on planet Earth,I just wish Heath was still with us.Then we could look forward to more epic performances from him,with or without Jake.

However it has to be said it is nice to travel to planet Artiste,where the flowers are truly beautiful,and just for a short while dreams can preside over reality, and hope springs eternal.That would be BBM mountain springs of course.
xxxx
Fiona

[Artiste]

Since every person I met has troubles, including moi, yes me:

it just occurs to me:

a- how can you fix a life?

b- how can you stand a life?

I would like to know...
please tell.

Hugs! Can Ennis really fix his life even if he went to live with Jack? I want BM  II... to clear that?
Can Ennis even stand his life and not change a bit? Would BM  II show that or better?

[brokeplex]

Since every person I met has troubles, including moi, yes me:

it just occurs to me:

a- how can you fix a life?

b- how can you stand a life?

I would like to know...
please tell.

Hugs! Can Ennis really fix his life even if he went to live with Jack? I want BM  II... to clear that?
Can Ennis even stand his life and not change a bit? Would BM  II show that or better?

a- it is what iit is
b- because there is no other choice

No, Ennis can not fix his life by living with Jack.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

1- Some persons are however happy living with another person!! Right?
So maybe Ennis would have been happy living with Jack??  On the long run.... ?? !!

2- However, some persons are not well or do not want to live full time with another.
My lover/buddy Wayne was at times like that. So was I too at times. And somehow, I would have been better and would have been pleased to live with him FULL TIME!! If I could have...

Hard to say?

Would Jack have been HAPPY if Ennis lived with him?

What do you think? And others can say too!

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

the question you asked, would moving in with Jack have fixed things for Ennis. my answer is no, it would have completely cut him off from his daughters, and made him even more paranoid than he already was.

jack would have liked living with ennis for a while, but perhaps the reason their romance lasted as long as it did, was because they did not move in together.

[Mandy21]

Artiste, I absolutely love the way you worded that:

"a-how can you fix a life?
b-how can you stand a life?"

Deep questions...  I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack.  I wish it weren't so, but it seems that it is.

[optom3]

Artiste, I absolutely love the way you worded that:

"a-how can you fix a life?
b-how can you stand a life?"

Deep questions...  I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack.  I wish it weren't so, but it seems that it is.

I agree, wish I didn't.It would have to have been in   a more enlightened time/place.
As it stood then,even living with Jack would have been as per Coldplay lyrics,
"when you get what you want" ---Jack, full time  "but not what you need" the paranoia and guilt that would have gone with it.
So in my opinion he really could not fix it.He would have needed real long term therapy to free his mind,from years of repression,fear,guilt etc.That was not going to happen,on any level,financially,socially etc.
Only conclusion then was to stand it.
My 1st husband ended up having a complete breakdown,followed by intensive therapy before he could "come out" That was in so called more enlightened times ,in a relatively,gay tolerant country.And without many of the deep rooted fears of Ennis.Just a more general fear of homophobia and family reactions.
So what hope for Ennis.

[Artiste]

Thanks optom, thanks Mandy, thanks brokeplex, and thanks to others too!!

Wow, your posts are pensive!!

Mandy, you say:
I don't think Ennis would have ever been able to stand a homosexual life with Jack!
.......

Mandy: Wow, I am surprised!!

And optom you added abiout Ennis:
He would have needed real long term therapy to free his mind,from years of repression,fear,guilt etc.That was not going to happen,on any level,financially,socially etc.!!
.....

Optom: that surprises me too!!

.........

And brokeplex: you sure puzzle me too by saying Ennis:
would moving in with Jack have fixed things for Ennis. my answer is no, it would have completely cut him off from his daughters, and made him even more paranoid than he already was.
.........

Brokeplex: you think that Ennis would have become more paranoid!! Wow, wow!!

May I ask you and all:
And Jack too??

...........

And, brokeplex, you added:
Jack would have liked living with Ennis for a while, but perhaps the reason their romance lasted as long as it did, was because they did not move in together.
.........

To you all: so these two gay/straight/bi guys would have such difficulties living together, that they needed to see a therapist even BEFORE moving together, and even, after that, more and more help from a specialist or many specialists??

What if they would have gotten a specialist who is homophobic?
Would Jack stand that homophobic therapist? Would Ennis?
Would either one stand that bigot therapist?

Food for thought?

Awaiting your news,
au revoir,
hugs!!

[Mandy21]

Artiste, I simply thought that Ennis had so many leftover childhood repressed memories and fears instilled in him, that he never would have been able to live in the same house with a man, no matter how much he loved him.  I agree with the observation that maybe the reason their relationship lasted so long was purely because they saw each other so few times, and those times were always special and mysterious, and they both saw to it that they were magical moments, every one of them.

Afraid I don't agree that either of them would have seen a therapist in that day and age, Fiona, just my opinion.  Surely not a common thing to do back then.  Did any of you folks see the movie "Far From Heaven" with Dennis Quaid (ironically enough) and Julianne Moore?  Shrinks can't exactly cure being gay, can they?  And why would they want to, anyway?

[Artiste]

Thanks Mandy!
May I say:
Some shrinks are gay and try to help gay men accept their sexual orientation BETTER!! At least, that is what I see in ads and writings I saw in a gay Quebec monthly I think it is!! Any therapist(s) here on Bettermost to mention something to us?

To me, Ennis could come to accept his life with living with Jack... on the long run !! With help if needed??

Ennis would rather then fix than stand ??

Anyone??

What would you suggest that a therapist helps with??

Hugs!!

[brokeplex]

To me, Ennis could come to accept his life with living with Jack... on the long run !! With help if needed??

it is very doubtful to me that Ennis could ever have accepted living with Jack. I doubt seriously if there were any therapists available, and Ennis would have looked upon it as a shameful thing to go to a therapist. mental illness is right up there with homosexuality in the shame gallery for someone like Ennis.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

True is what you say!

However, maybe instead of shame, one can see a therapist, a gay one, for acceptance...as to be joyous, like to feel like a group ??

In a way, wasn't Jack a therapist to Ennis?

And wasn't Ennis trying to be a therapist to Jack ?

What do you and others too think?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

True is what you say!

However, maybe instead of shame, one can see a therapist, a gay one, for acceptance...as to be joyous, like to feel like a group ??

In a way, wasn't Jack a therapist to Ennis?

And wasn't Ennis trying to be a therapist to Jack ?

What do you and others too think?

Hugs!

It is not realistic to expect what you are suggesting of the characters Jack and Ennis in BM. If you chose to rewrite the story using a different locale and characters, go ahead, but I think that story was written long ago, and it would not be BM. The uniqueness of BM is that it tells the tale of two men from an environment that has been long neglected. There are many other tales of gay men in many different environments, lets respect this tale with all of its lessons and limitations, to do otherwise just misses the meaning of the story and the film. 

[Mandy21]

Brokeplex, I agree with your statement; it was unrealistic to imagine Ennis ever soliciting a therapist for help.  Hell, he couldn't even admit what he thought were his weaknesses (even though they weren't) to himself.  How in the whole wide world could he have ever admitted it to another???

Artiste, I also believe that both Jack and Ennis tried their whole lives together to be sort of therapists to each other, from the moment that Jack says it's all right in TS2.  But does that mean they ever succeeded?  If so, would Ennis have been on his knees crying in the final scene, and would Jack have been trying so hard to understand this moment of desperation/hopelessness/weakness in a man he perceived as so strong for 20 years?

I don't know, maybe you'd like to explain?

[myprivatejack]

Brokeplex, I agree with your statement; it was unrealistic to imagine Ennis ever soliciting a therapist for help.  Hell, he couldn't even admit what he thought were his weaknesses (even though they weren't) to himself.  How in the whole wide world could he have ever admitted it to another???

Artiste, I also believe that both Jack and Ennis tried their whole lives together to be sort of therapists to each other, from the moment that Jack says it's all right in TS2.  But does that mean they ever succeeded?  If so, would Ennis have been on his knees crying in the final scene, and would Jack have been trying so hard to understand this moment of desperation/hopelessness/weakness in a man he perceived as so strong for 20 years?

I don't know, maybe you'd like to explain?

I also believe that both of them-but in a greater extent Jack-were a sort of therapists to each other; from the very moment they began to share duties and loneliness in BBM,both of them helped each other to overcome the results of some unlucky childhood and adolescence-Ennis for having lost his parents,Jack for having had such a rough father-.In the sense that both of them made the other feel important for himself,feel appreciated and valued for what and how he was.I've always thought that this helped Jack to have his feet more on the ground and Ennis to open himself more than never before...,it's to say,giving each other what they were lacked of.
From this moment onwards,however,and although they helped each other- even unconsciously- in coming to terms with their feeling and sexuality somehow,specially Jack was wrong in his therapist's role.I mean,he never dared to put Ennis really against the ropes,in a kind of ultimatum about their situation; he didn't want to fear him with a too strong reaction that made him scape and lose him...He didn't use a "shock therapy" that is sometimes necessary,but only tried to manage the situation the best he could.The result was that Ennis was building during years an edifice of a greater separation between their meetings with the "bricks"of the many excuses he always put to avoid commitment.And with the confrontation scene all the things they had inside themselves come out to the surface; so Ennis broke down by hearing all what he also felt but he didn't dare to admit even to himself.ÍMO, their therapist's role worked as a friends much more than as lovers indeed.

[Mandy21]

The result was that Ennis was building during years an edifice of a greater separation between their meetings with the "bricks"of the many excuses he always put to avoid commitment.

I agree with you, m.p.j., the only way I can semi-justify Jack's reticence to confront Ennis or threaten to leave Ennis over the years is to believe that he was 100% unconditionally in love with Ennis.  I remember believing in this so much that I struggled to understand the final scene between them, with the "wish I knew how to quit you" line.  When you last for 20 years with someone as a friend/lover, even if it's only infrequently and in secret/shame (in Ennis's mind, at least), what's 21 years, 22 years, 23 years, etc. in the scheme of things?

It's very intriguing to me that their final scene together alluded to a break-up, and then Jack ended up dead before they could possibly reconcile.  Makes it all the more tragic, the not knowing if Ennis was finally realizing Jack's commitment to him which caused Ennis to send the what-turned-out-to-be-returned "deceased" postcard to meet up again.

[optom3]

Artiste, I simply thought that Ennis had so many leftover childhood repressed memories and fears instilled in him, that he never would have been able to live in the same house with a man, no matter how much he loved him.  I agree with the observation that maybe the reason their relationship lasted so long was purely because they saw each other so few times, and those times were always special and mysterious, and they both saw to it that they were magical moments, every one of them.

Afraid I don't agree that either of them would have seen a therapist in that day and age, Fiona, just my opinion.  Surely not a common thing to do back then.  Did any of you folks see the movie "Far From Heaven" with Dennis Quaid (ironically enough) and Julianne Moore?  Shrinks can't exactly cure being gay, can they?  And why would they want to, anyway?

That is what I meant,probably phrased it badly.He would have needed therapy but would never have got it in those days.So I agree wth you completely.

[myprivatejack]

I agree with you, m.p.j., the only way I can semi-justify Jack's reticence to confront Ennis or threaten to leave Ennis over the years is to believe that he was 100% unconditionally in love with Ennis.  I remember believing in this so much that I struggled to understand the final scene between them, with the "wish I knew how to quit you" line.  When you last for 20 years with someone as a friend/lover, even if it's only infrequently and in secret/shame (in Ennis's mind, at least), what's 21 years, 22 years, 23 years, etc. in the scheme of things?

It's very intriguing to me that their final scene together alluded to a break-up, and then Jack ended up dead before they could possibly reconcile.  Makes it all the more tragic, the not knowing if Ennis was finally realizing Jack's commitment to him which caused Ennis to send the what-turned-out-to-be-returned "deceased" postcard to meet up again.

Yes,he was deeply in love,so much as to not threatening the only thing he had; these few meetings two or three times a year...However,and in my opinion,he began to see there was no real future for them in the scene near the river,when Ennis makes fun of his suggestion to move to Texas after showing his paranoia.I think he began a struggle between his heart and his mind,because he saw this but he can't put it into practise; for this reason he said that "wish I knew how to quit you"...For me,the real problem is that always there's a point of non return,and Jack was at the point of arriving to it in their final scene together; they had to have said all these to each other much before and these thing were" rotting" inside them until they finally explode...Perhaps they had reconciled,because Ennis sent him a postcard to met again after this "explosion"; to have a relief,I like to think that all what they said then served to think it over and try to find a solution together when we had met.As a matter of fact,after Jack's death,we see a kind of "new" Ennis,with a greater commitment with his inner self; why couldn't this happen also if they met again after the struggle?.

[Artiste]

Thanks Mandy!

You say:
Artiste, I also believe that both Jack and Ennis tried their whole lives together to be sort of therapists to each other, from the moment that Jack says it's all right in TS2.
............

Yes, they BOTH made then steps in the BM movie!! They BOTH succeeded then SAME time!!
Just realised that so rare mutual timing!! Right??

So why could they NOT mutually again come to be so together again for the rest of their lives as a COUPLE??
.............


You say:
But does that mean they ever succeeded?
..........
They were about to do so... again, right??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Monika]

I think about the last scene as Ennis "killing" Jack in a sense. By letting Jack down once again (one time too many) he makes Jack think for the first time that they might not have a future together, he kills what is so essential to Jack - hope and a "we can fix it" attitude. He puts out the light in Jack and so in a way kills Jack because if Jack loses his hope, then what´s left of him? Nothing. He might just as well die, which he does. But Ennis killed him physically before his body died.
And of course, without Jack there is no Ennis, and therefor the story ends shortly afterwards leaving the audience with the knowledge that Ennis has in fact commited a type of suicede.

[Artiste]

Thanks buffymon!

Wow, you are very strong:
I think about the last scene as Ennis "killing" Jack in a sense. By letting Jack down once again (one time too many) he makes Jack think for the first time that they might not have a future together, he kills what is so essential to Jack - hope and a "we can fix it" attitude. He puts out the light in Jack and so in a way kills Jack because if Jack loses his hope, then what´s left of him? Nothing. He might just as well die, which he does. But Ennis killed him physically before his body died.
And of course, without Jack there is no Ennis, and therefor the story ends shortly afterwards leaving the audience with the knowledge that Ennis has in fact commited a type of suicede.
...........

Buffymon, may I say, that Jack also refuses Ennis, in a way !! Unfortunately!!
Could that be called a paradox ?? Is that the right word?? Yes, a paradox that each do, unfortunately, since they take there turns to refuse being together, right?? I figure that they were soon to be together, is that just a dream of my part?

I still think that both could have lived together, especially if society would let them, and if they let themselves too!!
But, would that be possible??

To some viewers, Ennis is Jack and Jack is Ennis!! As one person!! What do you think??

Au revoir,
hugs!!

[optom3]

Thanks buffymon!

Wow, you are very strong:
I think about the last scene as Ennis "killing" Jack in a sense. By letting Jack down once again (one time too many) he makes Jack think for the first time that they might not have a future together, he kills what is so essential to Jack - hope and a "we can fix it" attitude. He puts out the light in Jack and so in a way kills Jack because if Jack loses his hope, then what´s left of him? Nothing. He might just as well die, which he does. But Ennis killed him physically before his body died.
And of course, without Jack there is no Ennis, and therefor the story ends shortly afterwards leaving the audience with the knowledge that Ennis has in fact commited a type of suicede.
...........

Buffymon, may I say, that Jack also refuses Ennis, in a way !! Unfortunately!!
Could that be called a paradox ?? Is that the right word?? Yes, a paradox that each do, unfortunately, since they take there turns to refuse being together, right?? I figure that they were soon to be together, is that just a dream of my part?

I still think that both could have lived together, especially if society would let them, and if they let themselves too!!
But, would that be possible??

To some viewers, Ennis is Jack and Jack is Ennis!! As one person!! What do you think??

Au revoir,
hugs!!

Jack is Ennis and vice versa,I agree.To me that is what defines one type of real love.2 people who come together in every sense and who are incomplete without each other.When they are together,the 2 halves literally make one whole.That is why true love can be so perfect.The optimist with the pessimist,the practical with the dreamer.They each take from each other what is lacking in themselves.And it is not just taken but willingly given.
There is another type of love where 2 people are so identical  they recognise that in each other.They are so similar they complete each others sentences.Know what the other will say before they say it.And know that the other person is their soul mate instinctively.In this case it is not 2 halves comming together,but more  one whole,almost divided into 2,then recombined.
Jack and Ennis fall I believe into the former category,they are incomplete without each other.
The tragedy of any true love is that if you let it go,you will spend your life searching for something to fill the gap.Or am I just talking of myself here,I wonder?And hanging on to fragments of a lost dream,literally and metaphorically,hanging on.Just as Ennis does.

[Artiste]

Cassie!!