Author Topic: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?  (Read 11099 times)

Offline welliwont

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2006, 11:21:48 am »
To Ruby,

I beg to differ! The ambiguity is in the movie not in the novel. I would welcome if you would direct me to sites that have the writer saying that Jack's death is open to interpretation.

Here is what AP wrote as the last line in the story:  "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.”

I interpret the line to say we are not meant to know, it will remain a mystery to us as it will to Ennis.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 11:24:48 am by J »
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pinku

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2006, 12:25:23 pm »
I think the last line is about Jack appearing in Ennis' dreams and the fact that  Ennis has to go on without Jack. In my opinion Ennis has had already resolved Jack's murder during his meeting with Jack's pa and ma. This line signifies that Ennis has accepted the fact that Jack is not going to come back and there is nothing he can do about it but accept it...

Oh ..... What a disturbing novel/movie! The theme is simple enough but the impact massive, almost overpowering. An emotional hurricane! What a writer! I am almost afraid to read her other stories-  I am yet to recover from this!

I also think that though Heath was perfect for the role of Ennis, somehow I can't say the same thing about Jake. Even AP describes Jack as a short, curly haired guy with buckteeth and heavy thighs. The kissing scene would have been more hot had Jack/Jake drawn blood as described in the book..mmmmmmmmmmm..stubble rasping...something about saliva welling...my god ...hope I don't wet my sheets  today....;D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 12:31:29 pm by pinku »

Offline starboardlight

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2006, 12:52:19 pm »
It is not actually clear from the story nor the film.  I disagree that Jack had decided to set up home with the rancher.  And although Ennis felt at that moment @ Lightning Flat that Jack had been killed by the tire iron - he later was not so sure. 

Annie Proulx (+ the scriptwriters & Ang)'s brilliance is that the reader/viewer is able to interpret the dialouge/ intentions/ scenes for themselves.

yep. what Jack's father tells Ennis seems to suggest that Jack had decided, but remember that Jack had also said to his parents that  he and Ennis would move up to Lightning Flat, even though they hadn't decided on anything. So the same could be true with Randall. That it was merely Jack talking out his thoughts rather announcing anything concrete.
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Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2006, 05:39:25 pm »
See, I think Jake Gyllenhaal was [freakin'] perfect in the part of Jack. Granted, I know that Proulx wrote that Jack had buck-teeth and curly hair -- and I would've loved to see them give him buck-teeth and even better, the bleeding lips in the reunion kiss (that would've been awesome; how could Ennis explain that to Alma?).

"There is no Ennis without Jack."

I was thinking about this quote of Annie Proulx's the other day. When I first heard it, I thought it was really sweet and adorable but thinking about it now, it's very grim and disturbing. Why, because Jack dies and therefore, Ennis dies too. Ennis, however, cannot go and join Jack; he has to live an abject life and live with the guilt, agony, and despair forever.

Had it been Ennis (I thought Ennis was going to die from falling off the horse and breaking his neck actually -- the commercials showed the scene where his horse gets spooked by the bear up on Brokeback) I think Jack would've been utterly devastated. I think he would've gone to the funeral had anyone gotten in touch with him (would Alma? I doubt she knew how to contact him) and I think he would be, quietly, broken forever but I think he wouldn't let anyone see it. His Mom would probably know though.

I think it'd be a few years before he even contemplated a relationship with another man and then, it wouldn't amount to anything.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 04:19:48 pm by bbm_stitchbuffyfan »
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pinku

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2006, 11:31:23 pm »
Still you remember the movie because of Heath rather than Jake. If you were to watch the movie without having read the book, then I guess it is ok. Or maybe Heath is a better actor or had the meaty scenes , at least towards the end which left a greater impact in the minds of the viewers!

To Bbm...

I would rather have you not to use the f* word, at least while replying to my posts. This is not your home and please have the decency  not to use such words! Express your frustrations to the gay bashers not to me!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 09:42:11 am by pinku »

Offline Jane

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2006, 12:37:28 pm »
Interesting question, pinku!

I think Jack would have been just as distraught -- his love for Ennis was equal to Ennis' for him. But I think Jack is better able to cope with his emotions and is more of a survivor. While I can't imagine Ennis ever being with anyone else again, I can imagine this for Jack. He would always miss Ennis. But we would not see him in the final shot living in an isolated trailer with nothing for company but a shrine.


Exactly right.  Anyone else would always be second best to Ennis.  Lets face it, he only saw other guys ie male prostitues to fullfull a biological need.  Ennis shut his emotions and needs down when he wasnt with Jack,(which is why he couldnt control himself at the reunion scene)  :) but Jack bless him couldnt help but show how he felt.  Yes he might have met someone else, but no one would EVER compare to Ennis.  Poor Jack, poor Ennis. :'( :'( :'(
Always and forever. J&E.xx

tiawahcowboy

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2006, 01:37:11 pm »
As far as Annie Proulx's orignal short story is concerned, the one her publisher had copyrighted in 1997 before the New Yorker Magazine printed a slightly edited version of it, leaving out the two opening paragraphs, Ennis is the lead character in the story.

Other than Ennis Del Mar saying a few words aloud when he is by himself, no other person talks in the short story unless the person is talking to Ennis.

Oh, the other person can quote what someone else said; but, then, the person is still talking to Ennis when relating the story.


Offline welliwont

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2006, 12:53:04 am »
And as was stated by Annie "There is no Ennis without Jack." 

Hello Silkncense:
"There is no Ennis without Jack."

hunh?  what does that mean???  If you know, will you let me in on it?
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline welliwont

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2006, 01:26:09 am »

When John Twist tells Ennis of Jack's plan to bring up the rancher, he also states that, like most of Jack's plans, this one never came to pass-and not because Jack died.


Hi Ruby or RouxB:

Is it bad form to ask questions of something that you posted ten days ago?  'Cause I have one for you....  What do you mean by "and not because Jack died".  I thought that the reason "this one never came to pass" was in fact because Jack died.

If Jack had not died, it may have come to pass.  or not.  we will never know.  Do you have some reason to think that it would never have happened, if you do, please share!

Here is my rough timeline, it is only my guesstimate, so you can comment on this too  _  if you want!


  • Last camping trip for Ennis & Jack:  Spring 1983

  • Jack's last visit to Lightening Flat:  the two days after the last camping trip  --  this is when he mentioned to his Pa about bringing up a Rancher neighbour

  • Jack dies:  MAY or JUNE or JULY or possibly the beginning of AUGUST  --  (<<Ennis didn't know about the accident for months until his postcard to Jack saying that November still looked like the first chance came back stamped DECEASED)>>

  • Ennis mails the last postcard to Jack:  beginning to mid-October 1983

  • Postcard is returned to Ennis stamped "DECEASED": late October 1983


So since Jack died within a few months of having told his Pa about the Rancher neighbour, I think there had just not been enough time for Jack to make it happen.

What is your take on this?




 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 03:50:12 am by J »
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

tiawahcowboy

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Re: What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2006, 11:48:28 am »
In other boards, not this one nor that one beginning with an "I," a person stated that one of the screenplay versions has Ennis getting the "DECEASED" stamped postcard (about the November meeting) returned several months after he sent it in October.

And, while Ennis calls Jack's Childress, Texas phone number and talks to Lureen as soon as he can after getting the returned card, he does not go up to Lightning Flat until it is summer time in 1984.

According to the "book," Ennis was working at the Stoutamire Ranch in Signal in 1983 and he was still working there when he went up to Jack's boyhood home place. Ennis seems to have waited until he could get time off from work before he made the trip. And, he returned to work at Stoutamire's after the trip up to Lightning Flat. The "Brokeback Mountain" postcard was "ordered" in the Signal Higgins Gift Shop one day when Ennis was washing the horse blankets from the ranch. Ennis had to go back to the store to pick up the card when it arrived.