Yin and Yang: Ennis and Jack

[Brown Eyes]

I'm in the mood to bump a few, wonderful, classic Open Forum threads!
 

[Rutella]

I've been lurkin' and readin' but had to write a quick comment having seen this thread. I'm working on a PhD about masculinity in Chinese literature and yin/yang stuff comes up all the time to do with men and their relationships with other men and women.... I've been trying to fit BBM in somewhere and now I see a possible mention.  You lot rule

[Brown Eyes]

Welcome Rutella, congrats on the first post!  Want a cup of coffee don't you?  And a piece of cherry cake?  Tell us more about what you know about yin and yang.  It seems that this idea can be seen as a thread through a lot of the film.  It's especially interesting, I think, once we consider all the visual clues to the idea of yin and yang (many examples posted earlier in this thread).  I think this idea must be pretty closely related to the whole black hat/ white hat topic that you'll find in another thread in this forum too.  Cheers and welcome again.

[Rutella]

I'll take a cup of coffee, but I can't eat no cake just now. (wouldn't it be great if that exchange become the equvialent to 'how are you')

just after I logged off yesterday I remembered one of the cool things about yin/yang and BBM; the original meaning of the words yin and yang are to do with mountains and rivers. Yin means the north side of a mountain (or the south side of a river) and yang means the south side of a river (or the north side of a river). And thats one of the crucial things about yin and yang, that they are two halves of the same thing and cannot be separated.

I can't remember if anyone said earlier but yin and yang are also really closely linked to water and fire respectively and that's also related to the difference between male and female sexuality (ie men are supposed to get turned on quite quickly, burn bright but then fade away quickly too, while women take longer to get to the boil but then last for longer once they're there). I'm sure I had a more BBM link to that but my brain isn't really where its at right now...

I think there is too much yin yang stuff in the film for it to be coincedental espcially with Ang Lee as the director
   

[Brown Eyes]

I'll take a cup of coffee, but I can't eat no cake just now. (wouldn't it be great if that exchange become the equvialent to 'how are you')   

Hey there Bud.
Well it has sort of become that around BetterMost.  Really it's become the "secret password" greeting... and you responded correctly.
 


I like what you pointed out about the river and the mountain.  That feeds nicely right back into the movie's tag line "Love is a force of nature."  It also feeds into all the discussions about the nature symbols relating to different characters and to different aspects of the relationship.  I dont' think the yin and yang in the movie is a coincidence either... You're right, there is way too much to suggest that it was deliberate.

[Brown Eyes]

I've been thinking a bit about the "fixer vs. stander" issue lately and have come to realize more and more how much Jack behaves like a "stander" in the movie.  Yes, Jack has the urge and keeps asking Ennis about possible ways to "fix" their situation (i.e. live together or at least live closer... "maybe Texas").  But, really he lives all those years after the reunion mostly "standing" an unsatisfactory situation.  I'm posting this here because it seems to fit with the idea of opposites that rely on each other or that contain a little bit of the other within themselves.  It seems that Jack's personality is oriented towards being a "fixer" and he'd probably say that he was a "fixer" if asked.  But, he really does act like a "stander" for much of the relationship... putting up with his "short leash."  This is much the same with Ennis.  He overtly describes himself as a stander.  In fact, he thinks he has to be a stander.  But, we've all seen that on Brokeback, Ennis spends a lot of time acting like a "fixer"... ordering soup, hunting elk, etc.  This was on my mind while reading the fixer vs. stander poll over in Polling Place.  But, it occurred to me that this a complicated enough issue that it might be worth bringing up here.

[serious crayons]

So they each have a touch of fixing and standing are like the dot in the middle of the two sides of the yin and yang? Interesting idea, Amanda!

 

[Meryl]

That's a great way to think of it, Amanda and Katherine.  You're real thinkers there.   

[Rutella]

Oooh I love these posts, they've made me think of all kinds of stuff. Unfortunately my brain is a bit fuzzled and I'm not sure that this stuff will come out right, so apologies in advance   

The idea of who is the fixer/stander got me thinking about how much of a pragmatist Jack is sometimes, as well as being a dreamer. He stays married because what is the point of hurting Lureen and Bobby, and losing what he's got unless he gets the sweet life. Whereas Ennis wants to stay married for what it shows to everyone outside and what it signifies to himself. Similarly Jack lies to Ennis about being queer because he knows he has to in order to be with Ennis (and I love the way he looks at him as he says it, I always think he's half wondering whether Ennis believes him and half wondering whether Ennis really thinks that he (E) isn't) and about Randell because he is scared of losing him. Jack is aware of his lies and the fact he has to tell them but Ennis's worst lies are to himself.

Also about the way that Ennis 'fixes' stuff on Brokeback made me think that that's another reason for Jack to be so excited about the divorce, I mean up on Brokeback Jack moans about stuff (beans, sleeping in the cat-piss pup tent) and asks for things (elk, no beans, sex with ennis...). At first he gets a refusal from Ennis but then Ennis sorts it for him. When Ennis lets him know about the divorce it's like he's 'fixed' things again for Jack.... 

The link between how they both fix and stand stuff and with yin and yang is, I think, an important one. No-one is ever all yin or all yang; sometimes people take different positions with different people and within a single relationship there is also this interplay, so despite the way they may see themselves as a fixer or a stander, they actually move between the two poles, often in response to the demand of the other.


Ok, I have no idea if any of the stuff above makes sense, and I'm pretty sure a lot of it is just repeating what y'all have said already. I really should post stuff at times other when I'm about to go to bed!

[Front-Ranger]

My latest yin/yang sighting:

I have a new favorite scene, and it may surprise you... Recall the scene late in the movie where Ennis and Jack are walking their horses down the middle of a stream? I always thought that they had kind of glum looks on their faces because of dissatisfaction with the relationship...but as I look at it again, I'm thinking they are at peace and in harmony with each other. The reason for this change in thinking...I got to looking at the horses. Ennis is riding a beautiful black horse with a lovely diamond-shaped white star on its...forehead? (Is that what it's called). And Jack is riding an equally beautiful light-colored horse (a bay mare?) with a black shock of mane between its ears. The yin/yang sign was there all along, and I didn't even see it!! I started to see that scene differently...they are in equilibrium. Makes me think they did find some sort of peace and happiness together at last.