Author Topic: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are  (Read 69548 times)

Offline Impish

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2006, 11:16:32 am »
I found another great section from Harris' "The End of Faith," in which he discusses the fact that many of our laws are nothing more than an attempt to punish "sin."

Excerpts (italics from Harris, boldface from me):

"In the United States, and in much of the rest of the world, it is currently illegal to seek certain experiences of pleasure.  Seek pleasure by a forbidden means, even in the privacy of your own home, and men with guns may kick in the door and carry you away to prison for it.  On of the most surprising things abut this situation is how unsurprising most of us find it.

Behaviours like drug use, prostitution, sodomy and the viewing of obscene materials have been categorized as "victimless crimes."

(omitted: his discussion of those cases where these things are not "victimless" and then asks us to focus on those cases where they truly are without victims)

"...we must ask ourselves, why would anyone want to punish people for engaging in behavior that brings no significant risk of harm to anyone.  ....   The idea of a victimless crime is nothing more than a judicial reprise of the Christian notion of sin.

It is no accident that people of faith often want to curtail the private freedoms of others.  This impulse has less to do with the history of religion and more to do with its logic, because the very idea of privacy is incompatible with the existence of God.  If God sees and knows all things, and remains so provincial a creature as to be scandalized by certain sexual behaviors or states of the brain, then what people do in the privacy of their own homes, though it may not have the implication for their behavior in public, will still be a matter of public concern for people of faith.

A variety of religious notions of wrongdoing can be seen converging here -- concerns over nonprocreative sexuality and idolatry especially -- and these seem to have given many of us the sense that it is ethical to punish people, often severely, for engaging in private behavior that harms no one."

...

"When one looks at our ... our vice laws  the only organizing principle that appears to make sense of them is that anything which might radically eclipse prayer or procreative sexuality as a source of pleasure has been outlawed."

...

"Because we are a people of faith, taught to concern ourselves with the sinfulness of our neighbors, we have grown tolerant of irrational uses of state power."
« Last Edit: June 20, 2006, 11:19:23 am by Impish »
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Offline Shuggy

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2006, 10:51:38 pm »
Oddly, enough, thanks to your freedom of religion, frank idolatory or polytheism would be better accepted in the US than homosexuality. Very odd.

Offline David

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OMG! there IS a GOD!
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2006, 03:39:08 pm »
Did you see the headlines?       Ken Lay from Emron DEAD at 64!

I used to be Agnostic/Athiest,  but now I am thinking there MUST be a God to do that!     Crooks like that shouldn't be able to rob people then live like Kings just because they put all their wealth in their wifes name. 

They say that God works in mysterious ways.   Maybe this was his way of evening the score?   Or is that the Grim reapers job?    I don't know.   It is almost like a Twilight zone episode.

Offline Impish

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Re: OMG! there IS a GOD!
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2006, 08:20:58 pm »
Did you see the headlines?       Ken Lay from Emron DEAD at 64!

I used to be Agnostic/Athiest,  but now I am thinking there MUST be a God to do that!     Crooks like that shouldn't be able to rob people then live like Kings just because they put all their wealth in their wifes name. 

They say that God works in mysterious ways.   Maybe this was his way of evening the score?   Or is that the Grim reapers job?    I don't know.   It is almost like a Twilight zone episode.

Yeah, it is Twilight Zone-ish, but if there's a god out there who strikes down crooks, I wish he'd get to work on Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rice, Falwell, Robertson, Reed,....  I good go on forever here!   :o
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Offline David

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2006, 08:23:54 pm »
Now  now.... I wouldn't wish any of them dead.    If you want to really hurt them, 

Make them poor!      ;D

Offline Impish

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2006, 07:24:47 pm »
I came across a quote I like that was said by a character in a David Ellis novel:

"Philosophy is the study of questions that cannot be answered; religion is the study of answers that cannot be questioned."

Pretty pithy, huh? :laugh:
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Offline isabelle

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #86 on: July 09, 2006, 07:37:39 pm »
That's a good one, Impish! Will keep it in mind, to use in my family reunions ;D. OK, maybe not!
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Offline TexRob

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Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2006, 09:07:08 pm »
It's easy to confuse atheism with existentialism:  all existentialists are atheists, but not all atheists are existentialists.

Not all existentialists are atheists.  There is a strong vein of religious existentialism, of which Soren Kirkegaard is an example.  Personally, my interpretation of existentialism is purely atheistic, and influenced a bit by Sartre.

One thing that struck me about Brokeback Mountain is that it's the purest example of existentialism in film that I've ever seen -- start to finish.  Existential themes have been taken up in a lot literature, but never in film or television -- at least, not to this degree.  This is part of what absolutely floored me while watching, and it has a lot to do with the film as a work of art.

Offline Impish

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2006, 10:00:51 am »
Not all existentialists are atheists.  There is a strong vein of religious existentialism, of which Soren Kirkegaard is an example.

I'm fascinated.  Could you give a brief summary of the beliefs of religious existentialists?  Are these people who believe in a god but don't believe in an afterlife? 
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are
« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2006, 08:22:28 pm »
I came across a quote I like that was said by a character in a David Ellis novel:
"Philosophy is the study of questions that cannot be answered; religion is the study of answers that cannot be questioned."

Good one.  Was depressed again upon reading a woman's letter to the editor after one magazine wrote up an interesting article on 'Harry Potter' and its themes.

To paraphrase one part of her letter - she was a Christian - "I don't care if you spell it demon or daemon, it's still a demon..."

Yet another fine example of the closed-mindedness and ignorance that the exclusivist religions encourage.