SOTW 14/08: Containers and Containment

[Penthesilea]

Happy new week BetterMostians  !

No, it's not a typo. We have something new this week. A Symbolism of the Week (=SOTW) instead of a TOTW. Since both, the short story and movie, are so rich in symbolisms we'll just pick out one of them and discuss every aspect of it that comes to our minds.

We already have various threads about symbolism; some are classics, some are buried deep down the pages (and the one or other of them is probably worth another look). The SOTW will be an irregular feature, coming up whenever somebody has a suggestion for it. Therefore they will be numbered consecutively combined with the TOTW, no extra array for SOTW.

In collaboration with Front-Ranger comes the first SOTW. Thank you Front-Ranger!

Containers and containment

Some random thoughts on containers, which hopefully will trigger interesting discussions:

We see lots of containers in BBM. Especially the enamel pot and coffeepot are placed very prominently again and again during their first summer; we see Ennis playing a solo on the coffeepot. But they are also strikingly present in some later scenes. What do they stand for?

Let's also not forget the closing words of Annie Proulx's essay „Getting movied“: People may doubt that young men fall in love up on the snowy heights, but no one disbelieves the speckled coffeepot, and if the coffeepot is true, so is the other.
Here she referred to the coffeepot as one of many details which give the movie authenticity. But beyond this direct purpose may be another layer of meaning to the coffeepot and other containers.

Another example are Alma's kitchens. All three of them are crammed with various containers.

And how does containment refer to all those containers? And to the characters?

In the end, there is one container which is denied to Ennis.

Later I'll post some more pictures from the movie to give more examples of strikingly present containers.


Jump in and share your ideas about

Containers and containment

[Brown Eyes]

Awesome topic Chrissi and Sister-Mod! 

I also love the title "Symbolism of the Week (=SOTW)"!  I'm sure you're not surprised. 

I'll come back and tackle this one once I'm home from work later this evening.

[Penthesilea]

Awesome topic Chrissi and Sister-Mod! 

I also love the title "Symbolism of the Week (=SOTW)"!  I'm sure you're not surprised. 

Why thank you birthday-girl (ok, one day later ). No, I'm not surprised and look forward to your insights  .

[brokeplex]

the most poignant final container holds  Jack's remains. the urn sent by Lureen to the Twists. it remains unseen, why? so we can think of the shirts as the final metaphorical repository of the remains of Jack?  perhaps.

I like this topic, and it looks like I'm just going to have review the film yet again, so here I go to fire up the DVD player ONE MORE TIME! 

[Penthesilea]

the most poignant final container holds  Jack's remains. the urn sent by Lureen to the Twists. it remains unseen, why? so we can think of the shirts as the final metaphorical repository of the remains of Jack?  perhaps.

Yup, that's the one container Ennis is denied of. 
Looking through the screencaps, I noticed that Alma has the most containers. But Ennis isn't interested in those. He wants only one, and doesn't get it.

In contrast to Alma's kitchens, the Twist-Newsome kitchen has far less containers. But of course, the whole Twist household is far less cluttered than the Del Mars', so it's logical we see less containers there (plus, we see less of the Twist household in general).

I like this topic, and it looks like I'm just going to have review the film yet again, so here I go to fire up the DVD player ONE MORE TIME! 

Thanks for liking and saying so  .
You're a brave man, taking the hard task to see the movie again  .

Look out for the coffeepot. You'll be surprised how often it is present. Oh, BTW, there is something I wanted to show you for a while, but never got around doing it. It fits halfways in this thread, so I'll post it here:

You said in another thread, that there's a mistake (error in continuity) when Ennis gets up and enters the tent for TS1. You said we hear Ennis knocking over the coffeepot, but then it's seen still standing when the camera draws back from TS1 and we see the campsite once more.


Ennis knocking over the coffeepot(with the blanket):



The campground directly after TS1:


Detail from the same picture:



Another pot is still standing, but the coffeepot is knocked over, lying behind the other pot.


(I'm uploading pics for this thread, therefore I have them at hand right now)

[Penthesilea]

Ok, I skimmed through the photocaptions and loaded up some (well, actually more than some  ) pictures with different containers, which I found pretty noticable.








We don't see this one, but we hear it very clearly:

[Penthesilea]

[Penthesilea]

[Penthesilea]

[Penthesilea]

Cassie between the candy containers and the sweet drinks. Has she found the sweet life with Karl?

[brokeplex]

Yup, that's the one container Ennis is denied of. 
Looking through the screencaps, I noticed that Alma has the most containers. But Ennis isn't interested in those. He wants only one, and doesn't get it.

In contrast to Alma's kitchens, the Twist-Newsome kitchen has far less containers. But of course, the whole Twist household is far less cluttered than the Del Mars', so it's logical we see less containers there (plus, we see less of the Twist household in general).

Thanks for liking and saying so  .
You're a brave man, taking the hard task to see the movie again  .

Look out for the coffeepot. You'll be surprised how often it is present. Oh, BTW, there is something I wanted to show you for a while, but never got around doing it. It fits halfways in this thread, so I'll post it here:

You said in another thread, that there's a mistake (error in continuity) when Ennis gets up and enters the tent for TS1. You said we hear Ennis knocking over the coffeepot, but then it's seen still standing when the camera draws back from TS1 and we see the campsite once more.


Ennis knocking over the coffeepot(with the blanket):



The campground directly after TS1:


Detail from the same picture:



Another pot is still standing, but the coffeepot is knocked over, lying behind the other pot.


(I'm uploading pics for this thread, therefore I have them at hand right now)

thanks! that answers one of my earlier mentions of possible continuity errors in the film. glad to see that the crew did a good job on that scene. 

[Brown Eyes]

Cassie between the candy containers and the sweet drinks. Has she found the sweet life with Karl?

I think the candy and soda are such interesting details in the background in this scene.  As far as Cassie goes, I think it may be an ironic comment on her own disappointments as far as the "sweet life" goes.  I say this because she sounds so unenthusiastic about Karl when she talks with Ennis about him.

To me the most interesting thing about the candy and soda is their relationship to the two men (with black and white hats) we see at a different point in the scene standing at the bus counter and seemingly getting out of town together.  To me that, along with the candy seems to be a visualization of what "could have been" for Ennis in terms of the sweet life.

[Front-Ranger]

The containers that intrigue me the most lately are the thermoses. You may recall that Joe Aguirre pulled his thermos out of his Studebaker when he drove up that morning that he hired Jack and Ennis. There are other glimpses of thermoses, but another one that I recall was when Ennis reached into a cabinet and grabbed a thermos as he was heading out the door of his apartment to meet Jack for a fishing trip. What was the thermos for? Coffee, I guess. The reality check drink. In remembering the thermos, Ennis almost forgot another container...the creel case for the fish that he wasn't planning to catch, hehe. That is, until Alma reminded him of it.

The thermos is a straightforward symbol, one of containment and bottling up of secrets and hidden desires. I wonder if there is a thermos in evidence in Ennis' trailer at the end of the movie. I'll just have to watch again!!

[optom3]

The containers that intrigue me the most lately are the thermoses. You may recall that Joe Aguirre pulled his thermos out of his Studebaker when he drove up that morning that he hired Jack and Ennis. There are other glimpses of thermoses, but another one that I recall was when Ennis reached into a cabinet and grabbed a thermos as he was heading out the door of his apartment to meet Jack for a fishing trip. What was the thermos for? Coffee, I guess. The reality check drink. In remembering the thermos, Ennis almost forgot another container...the creel case for the fish that he wasn't planning to catch, hehe. That is, until Alma reminded him of it.

The thermos is a straightforward symbol, one of containment and bottling up of secrets and hidden desires. I wonder if there is a thermos in evidence in Ennis' trailer at the end of the movie. I'll just have to watch again!!

I agree that the containers particularly the thermos must mean bottled up emotions.I am off to watch the film again to see if there is any evidence of knocked over.or unlidded containers when emotions boil over.
I know I always thought it significant that as Ennis became closer to Jack, he ceased to use his own cup and instead they both shared the same bottle of whisky.
So I am off to see if there is any correlation between closed emotions and closed containers.
I even remember in the book thinking how significant it was when Ennis goes to buy a postcard at the end,and we are told about the coffee grinds being thrown away,much like Ennis threw away his chance at love.
So strictly for research purposes ,I will force myself to watch the film again, for containers, open or closed,upright or knocked over.Goodness what a drag,how will I sit through it again!!!!!!!!
Especially as I had a full day of washing,ironing and cleaning planned.

[Penthesilea]

The containers that intrigue me the most lately are the thermoses.

Believe it or not, while skimming through the photocaptions for this thread, the thermoses were what kept standing out for me (and radios, but that's another topic). I thought to include the photos here, but then decided against it since I already had posted so many pics.

From memory:

• Aguirre's thermos at the beginning
• We then see it prominently displayed on the metal filling cabinet (=three big containers) behind Aguirre while he introduces the boys to the job.
• Aguirre has another thermos, a blue one with red lid, the next year, when Jack comes back, looking for Ennis. It stands behind Jack, together with a metal lunch box.
• When Ennis receives the first postcard and hurries out of the kitchen, he passes the fridge and on top of it stands a red thermos
• The thermos Ennis packs for a fishing trip (and forgets the creel case, like you already said)

[shortfiction]

RE:  reply #9--I always loved that scene with the coffee pot escaping down the river and Ennis going after it, grumbling about "Jack F***in' Twist...got it all figured out, ain't he"

[Kerry]

Thermos = phallic symbol? 

[optom3]

Thermos = phallic symbol? 

Never thought of that,but it is a really interesting suggestion. Particularly as in the s.s the beans with spoon sticking out definitely comes accross as phallic.
definitely food for thought.

[brokeplex]

long neck beer bottles, thermoses, spoon handles, Brokeback abounds with phallic imagery. I just assumed that everyone was seeing it too! 

maybe we should perform an inventory of phallic imagery in Brokeback the film and suggestions of such in the ss.

[brokeplex]

for what its worth here is a list of every possible phallic image that I could find in the film:

cattle trucks in intro - horizontal phallus
sheep trailers - horizontal phallus
telephone poles, light poles and fence posts
solo pines on mountain
church steeple in Signal
Randy Quaid's nose
cigarettes
long neck beer bottles
thermoses
rifle barrels
shepherds staff at certain angles
axe handles by camp fire
spans of bridges at certain angles
camp fire stand extension
log furniture couch - horizontal phallus
whiskey flask at certain angles
cattle horns on skull in bar
stick Jack uses to beat Ennis's shirt in stream
Jacks legs while he and Ennis are on the slope declaring that they "aint queer:"
Jacks thumb on Ennis's face in TSII
blocks of wood Jack is chopping in the Uncle Harold scene
church windows in marriage scene
asphalt spreader handle in Timmy scene
Ennis's trailer - horizontal phallus
chimney on bldg in Signal
some of the table and standing lamps in various scenes
bull horns on bull in rodeo scenes
coors beer tap in bar scene
posts inside bars
long side burns
trombone slide in july 4 scene
fireworks going off phallus with ejaculation
necks on bass fiddle and guitars
microphone stands in bar/dance scenes
Jolly green giant display in food store
peanut cannister jars
tire irons
pot handles on stoves
satellite tower behind the Siesta motel that is a continuity error - thanks for the extra phallus film crew
hot water heater pipe in Almas apt
vacuum cleaner
ketchup bottles
almas yellow hair spray container
fleeting images of the real thing when the naked stunt men jump off the cliff
pole holding up the "Newsome" sign
Lureen's pens
fishing poles
ears of corn
knitting needles
carving knives
Monroes cigar
soft drink bottles
Old Rose phallus whiskie bottle in Ennis's crotch
phone booth
phone receiver in Lureens hand
broom handle outside the OMT home
posts in guard rails on stairs in OMT home
posts on OMT's chair
pellet gun in Jack's room
shovel handle outside Ennis's phallic trailer house
mail box post
wine bottle
extended kitchen faucets

that is all I can find with only one viewing.

 

[belbbmfan]

for what its worth here is a list of every possible phallic image that I could find in the film:



that is all I can find with only one viewing.

 

Just from one viewing hun? I'm impressed! 

[belbbmfan]

So strictly for research purposes ,I will force myself to watch the film again, for containers, open or closed,upright or knocked over.Goodness what a drag,how will I sit through it again!!!!!!!!
Especially as I had a full day of washing,ironing and cleaning planned.

 

Any new insights? About the movie I mean, not the washing, ironing or cleaning. 

[Front-Ranger]

for what its worth here is a list of every possible phallic image that I could find in the film:

cattle trucks in intro - horizontal phallus
sheep trailers - horizontal phallus
telephone poles, light poles and fence posts
solo pines on mountain
church steeple in Signal
Randy Quaid's nose
cigarettes
long neck beer bottles
thermoses
rifle barrels
...that is all I can find with only one viewing.

 

And I thought I had it bad!!...

You forgot the hanger, described in the story thusly, "as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car and then bent again to its original shape"

[brokeplex]

And I thought I had it bad!!...

You forgot the hanger, described in the story thusly, "as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car and then bent again to its original shape"

    good point, but you see, I haven't yet reviewed the ss for "phallic imagery". just the film. I'll try looking at the ss before the end of the week.

[Front-Ranger]

Oh, I'm starting to warm up to this topic!! Yes, the story is a rich resource. But also the hanger appears in the movie, most notably as the question mark pressing into Ennis's face as he hugs the shirts.

Not a phallic symbol but a powerful symbol of sexual potency is the beans that Ennis loves and Jack tolerates. This symbol, only mentioned in the story, is expanded (hehe) in the movie for effect. Beans are an ancient Asian symbol of potency. You may recall the story of Jack and the Beanstalk where Jack planted some magic beans which grew into a GIANT beanstalk that reached up into the sky to the abode of a GIANT. Possible clue to the origin of Jack's name?? ??

[brokeplex]

Oh, I'm starting to warm up to this topic!! Yes, the story is a rich resource. But also the hanger appears in the movie, most notably as the question mark pressing into Ennis's face as he hugs the shirts.

Not a phallic symbol but a powerful symbol of sexual potency is the beans that Ennis loves and Jack tolerates. This symbol, only mentioned in the story, is expanded (hehe) in the movie for effect. Beans are an ancient Asian symbol of potency. You may recall the story of Jack and the Beanstalk where Jack planted some magic beans which grew into a GIANT beanstalk that reached up into the sky to the abode of a GIANT. Possible clue to the origin of Jack's name?? ??

excellent references. I didn't know about the bean is an Asian symbol of potency. The hanger as a "question mark", I hadn't noticed this. I will look for it. 
"Jack" and the bean stalk, that certainly could be one of the reasons for AP's choice of the name jack. The bean stalk also being a phallic image.  I understand that AP was  looking for character names used in classic pulp westerns and came across Jack Twist. Makes sense as a name at least subliminally noticeable as being from a story such as Louis L'Amour would have written. Del Mar also sounds like an appropriately western name. I noticed that the name Ennis in the Irish language means "island". Of course "del mar" in Spanish means  "from the sea". So Ennis del Mar would be suggestive of an island isolated in a deep body of water. that is certainly appropriate for Ennis.  Of course the very name "Twist" as in twisted,  and the fact that he grew up in Crook County WY have many levels of meanings.