Author Topic: Why are the poor, poor?  (Read 122647 times)

Offline oilgun

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #230 on: May 09, 2008, 09:41:22 am »
Why are the poor, poor? In a word, "Karma."

I am genuinely not trying to trivialize this important issue by responding as I have. It is what I sincerely believe.

I believe that it is only the karmically UNevolved who are given wealth, because they are "young" souls, unaccustomed to the rigours of life and its lessons. We are given wealth in our early incarnations in order to soften the hardships of life. It is only after we progress karmically through many incarnations that we gain the privilege of attaining the lessons provided by lives of poverty. It is only then that we have the strength and experience from progressively experiencing more and ever more challenging incarnations that we are able to cope with poverty.

It is my belief that the entity who is closest to Nirvana and experiencing his/her final incarnation on Earth prior to progressing to a state of everlasting Bliss is more likely to be the beggar on the street, NOT the millionaire in his mansion.

We in the West see wealth as a blessing. Karmically speaking, it is just the opposite.

Peace.  :)

Well, karma certainly sucks then, lol!  Sorry, but that just sounds like a justification of poverty, an attempt to make the poor & disadvantaged accept their lot and to absolve the rich from guilt.  It reminds me of the similar idea that the poor are being punished for something they did in a past life.  Or my parent's self-defeating attitude of "nous sommes nés pour un petit pain" ("we were born for a small loaf. [...so we may as well accept our fate instead of rebelling]".

Offline Artiste

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #231 on: May 09, 2008, 09:49:10 am »
Merci oilgun !

Will the poor getting to be more poor, still have the chance to eat: le gateau ?

Who said, let them eat cake ?

I think that all should have a piece of cake, share the wealth !!

But not many persons think that ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #232 on: May 09, 2008, 11:11:58 am »
Sure. But your stereotyping and oversimplifying of anti-poverty programs keeps you from seeing that many of them already do just that.

Let's take one example from LBJ's War on Poverty programs: Head Start. Head Start does just about exactly what you pretend conservatives do -- it takes little pre-school Johnnys and prepares them to perform better when they get to regular school. It has achieved well-documented, widely acknowledged, extensively researched success. Eliminating Head Start, to return to your analogy, would leave all those pre-school Johnnys out "playing" -- or dodging bullets in their housing projects.




I take great exception to the term "pretend conservative". I assure you, there is no pretense here, I am a right wing conservative on the libertarian side of the Republican Party.  :)

Crayons, one of the aspects of your posts which I enjoy and respect is that you are openly and honestly on the left side of the Democratic party. You do not pretend to be an "independent" or a "moderate", or any of the other tripe that most Democrats have been trying to pass themselves off as since Reagan shined the light on liberals back in the 1980s'.  :)

Lets all come out of our ideological "closets", and esp, let BHO opine truthfully about his far left agenda, and I may just grudgingly admire him. I won't vote for him, but he would then have my respect which he does not have right now.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #233 on: May 09, 2008, 11:16:35 am »
I take great exception to the term "pretend conservative". I assure you, there is no pretense here, I am a right wing conservative on the libertarian side of the Republican Party.  :)

I believe she is using pretend as a verb, not as an adjective.

But then I guess I'm on ignore, so you won't see this.  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #234 on: May 09, 2008, 11:18:00 am »
That said, the learning disability 'what if' is, imo, typical lefist nay-saying and constant desire to be paralyzed by indecision or joining a positive movement forward. I guess you could have said 'what if there is no library close by, what if it was closed when they got there, what if the computers were down....'  And that helps make my point about the left's focus on giving rather than helping people acheive.


I make a small departure from your sentence above. The goal of the left is not "giving", if that were the case then their donations to private charities would match conservative donations, it isn't even close. NO Kaiser, I am sorry, but the goal of the left in their "helpful" programs is CONTROL. If you are directly dependent on me to give you your bread, like the underclass is vis a vis the welfare bureaucracy, then when I say "frog jump" you will respond "How high SIR!"


see the new book : "Gross National Happiness" by Arthur C. Brooks http://www.arthurbrooks.net/

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #235 on: May 09, 2008, 11:23:39 am »
Lets all come out of our ideological "closets", and esp, let BHO opine truthfully about his far left agenda, and I may just grudgingly admire him. I won't vote for him, but he would then have my respect which he does not have right now.

Yes, there is, indeed, a Far Left Agenda!

And when the Great Day comes for the redistribution of wealth in this great land of ours, we'll be coming for the Right Wing Repbulican Conservatives First!

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #236 on: May 09, 2008, 11:35:10 am »
I believe she is using pretend as a verb, not as an adjective.

But then I guess I'm on ignore, so you won't see this.  ;D

I've always found ignoring people I disagree with to be a risky business. 
They may be making me look the fool and I don't even know it. 

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #237 on: May 09, 2008, 11:49:55 am »

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  OK. have it your way...the left and dems are the party of defeat and n'er do well. So be it. Live in a world of 'here's why nothing works'...'oh woe is me' if you want...whatever turns one on.

The type of argumentation on the part of the left which you have accurately characterized is called "advanced victimology". This is a form of agitprop which the left in the US has perfected to an art form. Victimology always has a political power motive, it allows the left to achieve some of the power that they wish to have over our lives and the free market economy without ever having to announce their true intent towards the free market economy.  

Kaiser, what conservatives such as yourself who work in the private sector, and who have not had extensive contact on a political level with the far left sometimes forget, is that in leftwing hagiography the most holy is the most victimized. This is one of the religious tenets to the left. To be a victim is to be good, and parading out victims during any debate is designed to end that debate. So, in a sense using victimology in debate is a  type of censorship. Ann Coulter got this aspect of the left correct on point in her many columns about leftist tactics.

To summarize: the usual presentation of the left when discussing the tax vampire antipoverty programs goes something like this:

1) pity the poor: followed by examples

2) I know bone crunching poverty: my mother was, etc

3) I know people who are poor today: my neighbor, etc

4) We must spend more tax money at all levels of gov to "help the poor"!

5) Since you oppose our plans to help the poor, then you must be a racist advocate of death camps!

6) pity the poor!


where have you seen this sequence of arguments?  ;)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #238 on: May 09, 2008, 11:52:56 am »
I keep checking this thread for information about decreasing poverty, but lately it seems to have gone way off topic! Shouldn't this be in the political forum instead?

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Why are the poor, poor?
« Reply #239 on: May 09, 2008, 11:55:17 am »
I've always found ignoring people I disagree with to be a risky business. 
They may be making me look the fool and I don't even know it. 

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

no I see you! you have not advanced the idea that any of my arguments are like an advocacy of Nazi death camps, neither have you indicated that I have offended you as I attempt to reexplain a point again and again.

cheers!  ;D