Why are the poor, poor?

[Jeff Wrangler]

I see them as more controlling though.

I'm sure some of them feel their money gives them a right to be controlling. 

[serious crayons]

I'm sure some of them feel their money gives them a right to be controlling. 

And you know, I'd have to agree with them. We all want some say in how our charitable donations are spent, don't we?

[Jeff Wrangler]

And you know, I'd have to agree with them. We all want some say in how our charitable donations are spent, don't we?

Sure enough! Around here we're even allowed to designate whether our donations to the PBS affiliate go to support TV or radio. But I interpreted the "controlling" comment as being controlling of people, and that's what I based my comment on.

[Jeff Wrangler]

within reason..but when they get the feeling that they can take other people's rights away because of their status financially that is wrong..immoral.

Sure enough.

for example, the new way employers attempt to control employees even when they are not at work...you get paid to show up at a certain time and do a certain job...what you do outside is not your bosses business.

That bothers me a lot, employers trying to dictate to their employees about their personal lives out of work and off the premises--like not smoking, for example.

[serious crayons]

Well, I'm not sure how I got appointed Defender of the Rich, but giving to particular charities of one's choice doesn't seem to be the same thing as taking people's rights away or controlling individuals.

And as for controlling employees when they're not at work, I agree, but that's not necessarily just rich people making that decision. It probably comes from middle-class middle managers just as often. And it's not all that new -- remember how school teachers didn't used to be allowed to be married, let alone pregnant!

[Jeff Wrangler]

And as for controlling employees when they're not at work, I agree, but that's not necessarily just rich people making that decision. It probably comes from middle-class middle managers just as often. And it's not all that new -- remember how school teachers didn't used to be allowed to be married, let alone pregnant!

"Remember"? Seriously, no. If I'd thought about it, I would have thought it was just an old cultural assumption that female school teachers were either "old maids" or just killing time till they got their "Mrs." and quit to start families of their own. My fifth grade teacher--that would have been 40 years ago this coming fall--was both divorced and remarried. (God bless Mrs. Williams wherever she is. She was young, enthusiastic, and the best teacher I had in elementary school.)

As for the controlling employees, the anecdotes/stuff I've read in the papers have mostly concerned cutting insurance costs: that is, you don't want fat smokers for employees because they cost more in health insurance than thin, fit, non-smokers. I would think mandates like that come down from higher up than middle managers, but I could be wrong.

[serious crayons]

"Remember"? Seriously, no.

   I meant this in the sense of "remember the fact that" rather than "remember when"!  I was talking more in terms of Little House on the Prairie days. I know you just had a birthday, Jeff, but I don't expect you to remember those personally.   (And actually I'm about half a year older than you!)

As for the controlling employees, the anecdotes/stuff I've read in the papers have mostly concerned cutting insurance costs: that is, you don't want fat smokers for employees because they cost more in health insurance than thin, fit, non-smokers. I would think mandates like that come down from higher up than middle managers, but I could be wrong.

Oh, that's a good point. I guess I'm not that familiar with those situations first-hand, myself. Though if there's some company somewhere that controls their employees and makes them lose weight, I want a job at that company! 

[Jeff Wrangler]

  I meant this in the sense of "remember the fact that" rather than "remember when"!  I was talking more in terms of Little House on the Prairie days. I know you just had a birthday, Jeff, but I don't expect you to remember those personally.

Oh, if you're talking that far back. ... 

Even so, in my seven years of public elementary school, including kindergarten, I was taught by one widow, one married woman, the aforesaid divorcee/remarried woman--and four single/never married women.

As for employers controlling their employees' weight, off hand I can only think of one story from the local news, and I consider this one a little--I don't know--sordid? A casino bar hostess in Atlantic City was going to lose her job because she gained too much weight. The casino insisted it wasn't discriminating because it was selling a certain "image" to customers.    I don't remember if that situation was ever resolved.

I think I've also read about people not being hired because they were smokers or overweight.

[serious crayons]

As for employers controlling their employees' weight, off hand I can only think of one story from the local news, and I consider this one a little--I don't know--sordid? A casino bar hostess in Atlantic City was going to lose her job because she gained too much weight. The casino insisted it wasn't discriminating because it was selling a certain "image" to customers.    I don't remember if that situation was ever resolved.

I think I've also read about people not being hired because they were smokers or overweight.

I'm sure that probably happens. Both for insurance reasons and for "company image" reasons. In the second case particularly for women's jobs where appearance is considered a factor, as with the bar hostess you mentioned. I'd imagine it might be a problem in places like Hooters when one of the waitresses gains weight. The airline industry used to be completely open about requiring flight attendants to match certain height and weight requirements.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Originally, and now we are talking way back, only men were allowed to be school teachers in the US.

Well, "schoolmaster" was a man's job, but if you go back far enough into the colonial period, the rudiments of education--maybe the alphabet, the barest beginnings of reading--were at least some times taught by women in what were referred to as "dame schools."