Ennis Knew More Than I Thought....

["Joseph Golden"]

This is probably been asked before but i consider it's validity important. So please if this has been asked I'd like to see what people thought.

For some reason i decided to watch Brokeback Mountain for the first time in nearly 1 and half years. There are many reasons for my Chastity on it. But rather divulging in it, I'd like to get to the questions.

When Ennis and Jack are sorting out the sheep Jack says "lets just leave them" or something to that sort. Ennis retorts with "maybe we will want to work for Joe again". This struck me as odd because Ennis never returned to Brokeback after they left it. Jack didnt seem to mind leaving.

Than later when they are off the mountain Joe says that "you ranch stiffs are never any good". Than he walks off, but Ennis turns and gives him this look. It's like he just realised why they were off the mountain, why they weren't any good and what Joe was exactly implying. This is when Ennis realises that there secret is out, that he is in some kind of danger, that there world up on the mountain was not so private. Ennis knew Joe had caught them. I believe this is also why Ennis let Jack go.

Jack is so naive. He actually believes that he and Ennis will be able to go off into the sunset together, get that ranch and live happily ever after. It takes his a while to realise that this is not true. First he gets a implication when Ennis snaps at him about the money thing, than when they are wrestling he realises that this is the end. Ennis is going to leave and they will never see each other again. So under complete desperation to hold onto this love he takes the shirt. Knowing that this piece of fabric is the only thing that binds the internal love, a symbol of it.

Did anyone notice this? I'm sure they have? I feel quiet stupid, though that's what you get for waiting this long.

I truly believe now more than ever before that Ennis was the first to really fall in love with Jack, and this internal struggle would ultimately destroy the world he knew. Maybe the goodbye scene was as close as they got to there cow and calf operation. The sweet life....

[Artiste]

Wow, beautifulinteresting subject Joseph Golden !

More please...

au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

In the film Ennis says "fuckAguirre? what if we need to to work for him again?we gotta stick this out Jack" This happens when they are trying to sort out the sheep which have all become muddled after the thunderstorm night.
It has always struck me as odd that Ennis says we, and also in view of the fact that he is fairly adamant later on that he will not be doing it again next year.Maybe even then he realises he does not want to completely say goodbye to Jack.?
I have always believed him to be in love with Jack by the time they come down from thee mountain.In the  s.s it says "Ennis felt he was in a slow-motion, but headlong, irreversible fall"
I took that to mean, that desperate fall into a love that you cannot control,and in whose grip you are powerless.Once in that grip you can never go back.
I also think this is why Ennis fights so physically,he cannot fight the love,he has fallen, desperately and irreversibly.He is trying in the only way he knows to gain some measure of control,hence the physicality that overtakes him both positively(reunion) and negatively,(the many fights,both with Jack and others)
In the film the proof of his love which he believes is about to be lost for ever,is the fight on the mountain before they come down.The proof of his love  which he then really believes he has lost is the retching in the alley incident.
That is what is so tragic,he knows he is in loves powerful grip,but he is powerless to act on it.

[Artiste]

Optom, you are revealing something powerful !!

You say:   I  also think this is why Ennis fights so physically,he cannot fight the love,he has fallen, desperately and irreversibly.He is trying in the only way he knows to gain some measure of control,hence the physicality that overtakes him both positively(reunion) and negatively,(the many fights,both with Jack and others)
In the film the proof of his love which he believes is about to be lost for ever,is the fight on the mountain before they come down       
...........

Optom, may I be surprised by the + and - as you say, and I add too that Ennis uses both in that warm to cold cowboy fight before coming down that mountain; at first, it is positive as Jack warms up to him, but then the force is negative !! So, both, Ennis and Jack then and there are similar: they are BOTH in love SAME TIME  !! ??

That is what I think !! What do you and others think ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Optom, you are revealing something powerful !!

You say:   I  also think this is why Ennis fights so physically,he cannot fight the love,he has fallen, desperately and irreversibly.He is trying in the only way he knows to gain some measure of control,hence the physicality that overtakes him both positively(reunion) and negatively,(the many fights,both with Jack and others)
In the film the proof of his love which he believes is about to be lost for ever,is the fight on the mountain before they come down       
...........

Optom, may I be surprised by the + and - as you say, and I add too that Ennis uses both in that warm to cold cowboy fight before coming down that mountain; at first, it is positive as Jack warms up to him, but then the force is negative !! So, both, Ennis and Jack then and there are similar: they are BOTH in love SAME TIME  !! ??

That is what I think !! What do you and others think ??

Au revoir,
hugs!
[/quote

Yes I agree.I think throughout,there are subtle shifting in the behaviour patterns we normally associate with each man.Ennis is the protector and the the one who is negative about their future.By the final trip, Jack has become the one who is now negative about their future,but also the protector as he nurses and holds on To Ennis when he breaks down.
Ennis who we are so used to seeing dragging his heels,tries desperately to cheer Jack up, with talk of Don Wroes cabin and what they can do in November,reminding Jack of the good time,they last had in the cabin.
It seems to me that maybe Ennis realises that he has finally broken,albeit unintentionally, Jack's eternal positive and optimistic outlook on life.Yet another tragic aspect,theonce so youthful and so optimistic Jack with his dreams of a sweet life is now gone.Yet in spite of all that,when Ennis breaks down,despite whatever Jack may be feeling, he rushes to comfort and console his lover/love.
Almost to the very end we see Ennis as the protector,even the final tent scene has Ennis with his arm round Jack. It was too late by then,only he did not know it.
That scene completely devastates me every time I see it.I keep thinking this is the last truly peaceful moment you will have with Jack.This is the last time you will hold him lovingly and protectively, but you do not know it,safe in your peaceful slumber.
Even the scene where Jack goes over to comfort Ennis,is not peaceful,it is full of desperation.They literally cling on to each other.Roles almost completely reversed,yet neither realising it.
OMG I am back crying again now.I so wish Heath was alive,where was his protector I ask myself.?

[Artiste]

Merci optom !

You describe so well the protector times of both !!

I guess that is also, as viewer, one thing we cling to too, in order to be protected or to be protector ??


Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Merci Artiste !!!!
I was  missing my flowers,I was starting to think I might have to send you to the naughty corner if I didn't get some soon!!!!!!
Even worse I might have had to consider not only rescinding my dinner invitation ,but worst of all, restricting your access to Bettermost and  BBM.

Phew !!!! saved by the bell as we English say, or in your case by yellow roses which you remembered were my favourite colour.
So now You are teachers pet and your reward for such model behaviour ,is permanant unrestricted access to BBM in all its guises and of course Bettermost!!!!!

Go to the top of the class.Don't forget teacher's apple.

[Artiste]

Merci "Joseph Golden", and merci optom !!

"Joseph Golden", you say:

         This struck me as odd because Ennis never returned to Brokeback after they left it.
             
..............


"Joseph Golden" and optom:
Is there proof of that ? Did Ennis say that he never went back to see that boss for a job the next year ?


Au revoir,
hugs!