Author Topic: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????  (Read 6425 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 02:55:00 pm »
Good ideas !

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 03:23:42 pm »
Good ideas !

What seems so gut wrenchingly  terrible,is that he not only died on his own, but it would appear that no one who loved him was even at his funeral.
I cannot see how much more desolate things could have been.
It has just added a whole new layer of unbearable grief, that I had not been aware of before.
His wishes of a "sweet life" with Ennis came to nothing, and even his wishes of being scattered on the only place that had held any real hope,peace or happiness came to nothing as well.
All his dreams and wishes came to nothing,both in life and death.As OMT says about licking the ranch into shape, "like most a Jacks' ideas it never come to pass"
Makes me wonder which ideas,if any ever came to pass.
It also makes me think Jack was an incredible optimist,to remain so hopeful almost to the end.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 06:34:55 pm »
Merci optom !

You say:
     but it would appear that no one who loved him (Jack) was even at his funeral.
     

..........

Optom, I know that cases where two  gay lovers lived for many, many years together, and when one died, the straights put the other gay lover to live in the street right away !!

That did happen to me and to others !!

So, we gays, have a long way to be accepted by the general population yet ??

Of course, you are one of the few exceptions !! Even, on Bettermost, many (not all thank goodness), even did not want me to even use to word gay !!

Au revoir,
hugs!  You want to know about straights what they did to my lover/buddy who died - if gays could go to his funeral ?

Offline Lynne

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 06:51:29 pm »
What seems so gut wrenchingly  terrible,is that he not only died on his own, but it would appear that no one who loved him was even at his funeral.
I cannot see how much more desolate things could have been.
It has just added a whole new layer of unbearable grief, that I had not been aware of before.
His wishes of a "sweet life" with Ennis came to nothing, and even his wishes of being scattered on the only place that had held any real hope,peace or happiness came to nothing as well.
All his dreams and wishes came to nothing,both in life and death.As OMT says about licking the ranch into shape, "like most a Jacks' ideas it never come to pass"
Makes me wonder which ideas,if any ever came to pass.
It also makes me think Jack was an incredible optimist,to remain so hopeful almost to the end.

That's a really nice summary, Fiona.  I think you've hit on one of the central tragedies of the story here - that none of Jack's dreams ever did come to pass because of homophobia, both external and internal. 

People like to debate whether Jack really does remain hopeful to the end.

I think I see in Jack's gaze after the flashback to the dozy embrace, watching Ennis drive away, an extinguishing of his hope for their sweet life together.  The idea that Jack's father knows about the 'ranch neighbor' lends support to this idea for me - Jack had transferred his optimism to Randall.

It's tragic anyway you look at it.  :-\ :'(
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 07:55:06 pm »
That's a really nice summary, Fiona.  I think you've hit on one of the central tragedies of the story here - that none of Jack's dreams ever did come to pass because of homophobia, both external and internal. 

People like to debate whether Jack really does remain hopeful to the end.

I think I see in Jack's gaze after the flashback to the dozy embrace, watching Ennis drive away, an extinguishing of his hope for their sweet life together.  The idea that Jack's father knows about the 'ranch neighbor' lends support to this idea for me - Jack had transferred his optimism to Randall.

It's tragic anyway you look at it.  :-\ :'(

I agree 100%
It's why I put he remained hopeful, almost to the end.That scene which you refer to is just so poignant.It is like watching the candle which has once burned so brightly,just flicker and die.Even in the s.s it says perhaps  "they'd never got much further than that."
There is something truly desperate about watching the hope go out of someones eyes.

A book my younger son is reading about WW2 and the holocaust, has  a mother saying to her children, "for as long as there is life there is hope"
In the case of Jack I think the reverse was true, for as long as there was hope,there was life.

He almost had to die, after that heartbreaking  meeting..Because inside I think he had just died anyway. The physical death was only a matter of when.The truly soul destroying death, was watching that last little flicker of hope die.
Perhaps that is why Proulx leaves the means of death open to interpretation.It almost seems unimportant.
Jack the eternally optimistic dreamer, for whom hope springs eternal,has just lost all hope.

I have seen that look in someones eyes.I put it there, and I would give anything to go back and rewind the tape.It is one of the reasons that BBM destroys me every time I watch it.It is like some nightmare groundhog day.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 09:04:02 pm »
Merci optom !

You say:
      Perhaps that is why Proulx leaves the means of death open to interpretation.It almost seems unimportant.
         

.........

Optom, may I say that Annie and / or the BM, to me, makes death very important in many ways that homophobia is destruction, and the opposite hope as in Ennis at the end of the BM movie is there too as he hugs the shirt-jacket !!
So, there is light, but dim !!

Let's not forget that there is hope for Ennis when he enters Mr. and Mrs. Twist house  and Jack's parents do help him adding light of love !!

Tragedies here, as in the murderings of gay men because they are gay, are noted in the BM movie, but too many viwwers disregard that unfortunately !!

Au revoir,
hugs! May there be no more gay bashing nor murders of gays in 2008 and forever !!

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 10:18:43 pm »
Artiste, going off topic slightly,it would be nice if there were no more murders period of anyone.
I simply cannot understand why people have to so evil.I know that some of it could be down to psychosis and other mental illnesses.
The rest however,seem to be a combination of greed,hate.
I have had terrible things done to me in my life.Rape, mental and physical battering,massive theft by my business partner.I have had to listen to a scout master tell me of the probable rape of my already troubled son.I see the alleged perpetrator in Publix so many times.It would be so easy I promise you to allow myself to feel enough hatred to kill or seriously hurt the man, but I don't.

I have plenty of reasons to hate,yet I don't.

I am not a saint by any means.I have done some things I am not overly proud of.
I will never understand the sort of greed and hate that leads to murder of anyone.
I find the insane rantings of some Muslims dangerous and offensive,but still I would not kill.
If mothers who have had their child raped or murdered can forgive,then surely others can.
There can be no justification of murder,of anyone by anyone.