The imagined power of BBM ?

[Artiste]

Merci optom !

You ask:
       Did Ennis really commit himself on BBM, more than we realise...           

Optom, and may I reply: Yes !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

[BlissC]

I cannot quite put my finger on it yet,there is definitely something about the "imagined power" that I feel is eluding me.Did Ennis really commit himself on BBM, more than we realise,which is why he was physically sick once down again.I keep thinking that maybe for a split second on BBM Ennis actually believed they could have it all.Now as he looks back, he wonders if it was all a dream and what he thought was the magic of BBM was just imagination,almost like looking back at something with rose coloured specs on.
I am not sure.I will have to go and think about it again.It drives me nuts when I feel I am just grappling with somethng and not quite comming to grips with it.

That's interesting Fiona. The extent of Ennis's commitment's something I can't put my finger on either. Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting the original SS mixed up with the various fanfics out there. The "Missing Motel Moments/Pine Creek/Warmest Week of the Year" trilogy particularly (which I love) kind of fills in the blanks in the SS, but Ennis in them is a little more open than in the original SS I think - not totally out of character or anything, but just a little more open and a little more talkative at times I feel. Maybe that's why I feel there's something from their time on the mountain that we're not seeing?

[optom3]

That's exactly how I feel.

It is how I would like to feel.
I just think I am missing something.The 2 words imagined and power are very specific.Even their order is I suspect a thought through thing.If it was the power of imagaination,how different would the meaning be? The power of our imagination is infinite.But imagined power,is almost the opposite.Something we thought existed does not.
this will drive me more nuts than I already am.

[Artiste]

Optom:         "imagined power" that I feel is eluding          ... you !

Imagine that too for Ennis and Jack !!

Remember that imagination is, at least, powerful !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Optom:         "imagined power" that I feel is eluding          ... you !

Imagine that too for Ennis and Jack !!

Remember that imagination is, at least, powerful !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

I agree which is why I think she deliberately wrote "the imagined power of BBM)  and not the power of imagination. In the prologue we know Ennis had the powerof imagination as he has been dreaming of Jack. In the final few sentences we read that his dreams are quite graphic,almost horror/comic. So Ennis has a powerful imagination,which he uses when he escapes the tedium of life and sleeps dreaming.
So we know about the power of imagination.
What is niggling me is that Proulx chose to deliberately write,imagined power.So from that it seems we are
to infer that something is incorrectly presumed,as it was just imagined and not real. Like The dreams Ennis has of Jack being imagined not real.
But if that is the case, and as the imagined power of BBM iin relation to Ennis,he must have at some point thought all things were possible up there.No matter how fleetingly,Ennis at least for a time had hope.He imagined the power of BBM to make all things possible.Too late he realises that is the point he should have reached out and grabbed it.
Hence past tense, he once imagined, now he just relies on his imagination creating some relief through his dreams.
I do not know If I am making any sense here at all???

[mariez]

"only the memory of it,the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands."

That's such a beautiful, but heartbreaking line.  To me, it means that Ennis always thought of Brokeback Mountain as a kind of fairy tale place  - that had nothing to do with "real" life.  He thought it was Brokeback Mountain that had "the power" - but he was only "imagining" that.  The real "power" was the love he and Jack shared - the evidence of which he is now holding in his hands.  And the terrible irony is that he was incapable of understanding that or accepting it without the tragedy of Jack's death and the discovery of the shirts.  The destructive rural homophobia was embedded too deeply. To make an imperfect (and over-simplified) analogy, it's kind of like when the Good Witch told Dorothy that the power to get back home to Kansas was always within her – Oz was an illusion. Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's how I read it and if I start thinking about it too much, it makes me tear up all over again 

Marie

[optom3]

"only the memory of it,the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands."

That's such a beautiful, but heartbreaking line.  To me, it means that Ennis always thought of Brokeback Mountain as a kind of fairy tale place  - that had nothing to do with "real" life.  He thought it was Brokeback Mountain that had "the power" - but he was only "imagining" that.  The real "power" was the love he and Jack shared - the evidence of which he is now holding in his hands.  And the terrible irony is that he was incapable of understanding that or accepting it without the tragedy of Jack's death and the discovery of the shirts.  The destructive rural homophobia was embedded too deeply. To make an imperfect (and over-simplified) analogy, it's kind of like when the Good Witch told Dorothy that the power to get back home to Kansas was always within her – Oz was an illusion. Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's how I read it and if I start thinking about it too much, it makes me tear up all over again 

Marie

Thankyou, that makes perfect sense to me.I agree it is a simply breathtaking line.Ennis had the power within hmself all the time.He was the one who could have in effect changed the fickle finger of fate.The power he imagined BBM to have was a mirror of his own,he just did not see it.
The whole thing fits beautifully, even the fact that his powerful imagination would not let him forget childhood traumas and so in effect he is actually rendered powerless by that very power.
What a tangled web of emotions.It all fits together and is all related,the dreams,power,imagination, BBM, and even mirrors.None of it can really be separated, it as complex as the emotions themselves.It is basically the human condition.
Thanks for the opinion,

[BlissC]

"only the memory of it,the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands."

That's such a beautiful, but heartbreaking line.  To me, it means that Ennis always thought of Brokeback Mountain as a kind of fairy tale place  - that had nothing to do with "real" life.  He thought it was Brokeback Mountain that had "the power" - but he was only "imagining" that.  The real "power" was the love he and Jack shared - the evidence of which he is now holding in his hands.  And the terrible irony is that he was incapable of understanding that or accepting it without the tragedy of Jack's death and the discovery of the shirts.  The destructive rural homophobia was embedded too deeply. To make an imperfect (and over-simplified) analogy, it's kind of like when the Good Witch told Dorothy that the power to get back home to Kansas was always within her – Oz was an illusion. Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's how I read it and if I start thinking about it too much, it makes me tear up all over again 

Marie

Marie, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head there! And yes, it does make perfect sense.

I think you're right - for both of them maybe, but especially for Ennis, Brokeback was a memory of something that was perfect, and in hindsight and with the "rose tinted" distant memory, with emotions that were so strong, the mountain was built up to be an almost magical place, a place so magical they could never go back there because that might break the spell. The real power though was their love, and as you say, the only evidence of that which remained was the shirts. I agree with Fiona also - AP definitely chose those words deliberately, and the ordering of the words also. Also some very interesting thoughs on the power of imagination, and Ennis's imagination. I'd never really thought about Ennis as being imaginative before, I guess because he's very closed and short on words, but looking at those lines again now in light of Fiona's comments, story Ennis definitely does have an imagination, though that doesn't come across in movie Ennis in the same way.

[Artiste]

Merci optom !

You say Ennis: he should have reached out and ...     grabbed it.
Hence past tense, he once imagined, now he just relies on his imagination creating some relief through his dreams     
...........

Optom, to me, Ennis did grab it to the best he could: he married a lady (and that is bad to most persons even in the USA, unfortunately) because they are ignorant or jealous !!

And he could NOT marry another male since that is against the law and too many peoples do not want that because they are ignorant there too !! And even if that will or is law, too many are two faced to it even to-day !!


Sad facts about society now becoming islamic in the USA !!

Au revoir,
hugs !

[BlissC]

I fail to see what's bad about marrying a lady, unless you're talking about Ennis specifically, in which case him marrying was a compromise he made because of expectations, a sense of duty, and many other complex reasons previously discussed. Ennis didn't reach out and grab it - that's the whole point! If he had he may not have ended up with Jack dead and only two shirts as evidence of their relationship, but in talking about Ennis reaching out and grabbing the opportunity, we're not talking about him marrying Jack. I think for the idea of marriage to work the idea is that it's based on more than "a couple of high altitude fucks once or twice a year"!  (If we're talking marriage though, perhaps they should have considered moving to the UK - at least now we have "civil partnerships".)



...but WHAT THE HELL has being Islamic got to do with either Ennis marrying or not marrying, grabbing opportunities, or the power of Brokeback Mountain? Give it a rest man - you're obsessed!!!