Author Topic: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?  (Read 37164 times)

Offline starboardlight

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2006, 01:50:51 am »
Just when you think you have absorbed every nuance of this masterpiece, voila! another detail to mull over.   8)

I always wonder what Jack told his mother about the shirts, he had to stop her from washing them somehow, and  a mother's first instinct would be to wash them and to try to get the bloodstains out.  Of course by the time she might have seen them the bloodstains could have been set already.

"Don't throw out them two dirty shirts ah'm leavin' up there in ma closet, Ma.  'N don't wash 'em neither, jus leave 'em be."

"The one's wid the blood on 'em?  Why Jackie, you know I gotta try and get that blood out quick as I can."

"Juss leave 'em be..."

i wonder if he didn't have to. he talked about Ennis enough, so he may already feel that she understands his feelings for Ennis. In addition, he hid the shirts in a nook inside the closet, so he probably thinks that he's the only one who knows about them. otherwise, why hide them?
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Offline welliwont

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2006, 02:20:40 am »
i wonder if he didn't have to. he talked about Ennis enough, so he may already feel that she understands his feelings for Ennis.

Hmm, ok...

In addition, he hid the shirts in a nook inside the closet, so he probably thinks that he's the only one who knows about them. otherwise, why hide them?

Well maybe its just me, but I don't think that they were very hidden, to me that was not really a *hiding* place at all!!  WTF, Ennis found them in no time flat! ::)  If I was his mother I would have seen them there.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2006, 02:38:49 am »
Well maybe its just me, but I don't think that they were very hidden, to me that was not really a *hiding* place at all!!  WTF, Ennis found them in no time flat! ::)  If I was his mother I would have seen them there.

yeah, you're right. i can imagine, she's taking them out to wash, and he runs after her and retrieve the shirts from her, saying "It's Ennis." and that's all he'd have to say, while she gives him a knowing smile.
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Offline silkncense

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2006, 11:32:45 am »
Quote
I'm not so sure about that. Jack kept his own shirt unwashed, with the blood on the sleeve. So he intended to keep his own shirt along with Ennis's.

I agree.  And I think the fact that he kept them together, esp if they were hanging together, his mother would know not to wash them.  Since Jack's room was so neat, I suspect that if he wanted something washed, he specifically gave it to his mother or put it in a designated place.

What do you think Jack said to his mother that first summer, coming home to Lightning Flat with that bruise on his face?  Do you think he spoke excitedly about Ennis - when did he really start the Ennis conversations with his parents???  After the reunion?
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2006, 12:53:58 pm »
I'm not so sure about that. Jack kept his own shirt unwashed, with the blood on the sleeve. So he intended to keep his own shirt along with Ennis's. He may/may not have tucked them together at first, but the two shirts were a set in his mind, right from the moment he took them.

That's a really good point, Nipith. I hadn't thought of that. And yeah, JakeTwist, you're right, Jack would have had to keep his mother from washing both shirts. (I kind of imagine her letting Jack have his privacy and not asking too many questions -- she just strikes me as someone who can understand what's going on without having it spelled out to her. But since Jack only had two shirts on the mountain as well, she must have known that only one of them got washed when he got home. It wasn't like Jack came home with a huge bag of laundry or anything. But... hmmm. I don't know about Jack explaining much about Ennis. He's more open than Ennis is - at the very least, he's able to say "Brokeback Mountain" to other people - but I don't see him being that open. Even with his parents. I mean, Jack's a pretty good liar, and I assume he learned how to lie as a child. And Jack seems to lie almost instinctively at times. He probably learned to do that to deal with his father, but... hmmm. It seems like it would be hard for Jack to be open with his mother and lie to his father all the time in that little house together, if that makes any sense at all.)

What do you think Jack said to his mother that first summer, coming home to Lightning Flat with that bruise on his face?  Do you think he spoke excitedly about Ennis - when did he really start the Ennis conversations with his parents???  After the reunion?

Again, I just don't see Jack being that open about the whole experience. Certainly not with his father. I imagine that Jack lied about the reason for the bruise. And I imagine Jack bringing up Ennis almost defiantly, while arguing with his father. But that's really just speculation. I'm not going on anything stronger than gut feelings and imagination here.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2006, 01:12:20 pm »
That's a really good point, Nipith. I hadn't thought of that. And yeah, JakeTwist, you're right, Jack would have had to keep his mother from washing both shirts. (I kind of imagine her letting Jack have his privacy and not asking too many questions -- she just strikes me as someone who can understand what's going on without having it spelled out to her. But since Jack only had two shirts on the mountain as well, she must have known that only one of them got washed when he got home. It wasn't like Jack came home with a huge bag of laundry or anything. But... hmmm. I don't know about Jack explaining much about Ennis. He's more open than Ennis is - at the very least, he's able to say "Brokeback Mountain" to other people - but I don't see him being that open. Even with his parents. I mean, Jack's a pretty good liar, and I assume he learned how to lie as a child. And Jack seems to lie almost instinctively at times. He probably learned to do that to deal with his father, but... hmmm. It seems like it would be hard for Jack to be open with his mother and lie to his father all the time in that little house together, if that makes any sense at all.)

Again, I just don't see Jack being that open about the whole experience. Certainly not with his father. I imagine that Jack lied about the reason for the bruise. And I imagine Jack bringing up Ennis almost defiantly, while arguing with his father. But that's really just speculation. I'm not going on anything stronger than gut feelings and imagination here.

well, Jack spoke openly about bring Ennis up to their ranch to live and work the ranch. I can't imagine that Jack doesn't understand how honest that is. He surely knows that the implication is that he and Ennis are lovers. His daddy and mama seem to understand it well enough.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2006, 02:09:01 pm »
well, Jack spoke openly about bring Ennis up to their ranch to live and work the ranch. I can't imagine that Jack doesn't understand how honest that is. He surely knows that the implication is that he and Ennis are lovers. His daddy and mama seem to understand it well enough.

Yeah, I think that's all he'd have to say and they'd both get it. I can't imagine him being much more explicit than that, even with his nice mom.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2006, 02:46:43 pm »
Yes, Yes, Jack's motivation, ah what would life be with out dyslexia...

I think that Jack took that shirt because Ennis had just punched him and he thought "that's it" like it was all over, he wanted to keep something of his, hid it inside his own shirt, in his own closet, and at the end of the winter of '63-'64, he left them hanging there and headed out for Signal again, hoping Ennis Del Mar had 'been around".

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2006, 05:10:09 pm »

There's something kind of sad and poignant about just taking the shirt rather than asking for it (or offering a shirt in exchange). I'm not sure I understand quite why I feel that way.


I agree. The fact that Jack acquires Ennis's shirt through an act of stealing adds a level of complex and troubled beauty to the story. It's difficult to articulate how and why this film is so powerful--there's something mysterious about it. That may be one reason we keep going back to it, over and over again, in physical experience and in memory.

Scott

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2006, 07:36:56 pm »
I agree. The fact that Jack acquires Ennis's shirt through an act of stealing adds a level of complex and troubled beauty to the story. It's difficult to articulate how and why this film is so powerful--there's something mysterious about it. That may be one reason we keep going back to it, over and over again, in physical experience and in memory.

Scott

I agree too.  I think at least it has the status of a surprise for Ennis.  If Jack had asked for the shirst explicitly, the end of the movie wouldn't have had the feeling of a revelation.  Ennis had no idea that Jack kept such a powerful memento for so long.  This surprise in Jack's closet needs to hit Ennis like a ton of bricks for the symbol to have as much power as it clearly does.

This is reminding me of that wonderful old review of BBB by David Mendelsohn in the New York Review of Books.  Early on, I thought this was one of the best pieces of writing I'd seen about the movie/ story.  Honestly, these days I think a lot of the analysis that goes on here at BetterMost is at least equal to this... if not better at times.

Quote
The climax of these visual contrasts is also the emotional climax of the film, which takes place in two consecutive scenes, both of which prominently feature closets—literal closets. In the first, a grief-stricken Ennis, now in his late thirties, visits Jack's childhood home, where in the tiny closet of Jack's almost bare room he discovers two shirts—his and Jack's, the clothes they'd worn during their summer on Brokeback Mountain—one of which Jack has sentimentally encased in the other. (At the end of that summer, Ennis had thought he'd lost the shirt; only now do we realize that Jack had stolen it for this purpose.) The image —which is taken directly from Proulx's story—of the two shirts hidden in the closet, preserved in an embrace which the men who wore them could never fully enjoy, stands as the poignant visual symbol of the story's tragedy. Made aware too late of how greatly he was loved, of the extent of his loss, Ennis stands in the tiny windowless space, caressing the shirts and weeping wordlessly.

In the scene that follows, another misplaced piece of clothing leads to a similar scene of tragic realization. Now middle-aged and living alone in a battered, sparsely furnished trailer (a setting with which Proulx's story begins, the tale itself unfolding as a long flashback), Ennis receives a visit from his grown daughter, who announces that she's engaged to be married. "Does he love you?" the blighted father protectively demands, as if realizing too late that this is all that matters. After the girl leaves, Ennis realizes she's left her sweater behind, and when he opens his little closet door to store it there, we see that he's hung the two shirts from their first summer, one still wearing the other, on the inside of the closet door, below a tattered postcard of Brokeback Mountain. Just as we see this, the camera pulls back to allow us a slightly wider view, which reveals a little window next to the closet, a rectangular frame that affords a glimpse of a field of yellow flowers and the mountains and sky. The juxtaposition of the two spaces—the cramped and airless closet, the window with its unlimited vistas beyond—efficiently but wrenchingly suggests the man's tragedy: the life he has lived, the life that might have been. His eyes filling with tears, Ennis looks at his closet and says, "Jack, I swear..."; but he never completes his sentence, as he never completed his life.

I think one of the things that Mendelsohn gets wrong is the idea that Ennis only now understands that Jack loved him.  It's a beautiful sentence though.  I'm quite sure that Ennis knew this all along... I think it was only a matter of articulating the situation clearly.  This visual symbol was enough to wake Ennis up to the reality of their whole 20 year long relationship.  And, I'm sure the shirts really did make Ennis aware of the extent of his loss.  I keep coming back to the tragedy of the lost time.  Ennis and Jack could have spent so, so much more time together over the 20 years that they did have if they had lived together or even lived closer. 
 :'(
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 07:42:30 pm by atz75 »
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