Author Topic: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?  (Read 37166 times)

Offline Rayn

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2006, 02:50:51 am »
What possessed Jack to take Ennis' shirt?   As I see it, Jack was attracted to Ennis from "the git-go", had a real interest in him right off, eyed him like a bobcat a jackrabbit at first, then again like a sly devil in the rear view mirror of his truck when he was shavin'. 

Jack was the more sexually aware, aware of his need and desire for men.  Yeah, they both had women, but nothing came close to what they had with each other. 

Jack never fell out of the love they made in each other that Brokeback Summer.   Ennis didn't know it as clearly, but he had fallen for Jack just as deeply.  So, yeah, I think Jack took the shirt to remember that summer with Ennis in case he never saw him again.

The shirts were a marvelous invention of Annie's, a beautiful symbol of their bond of passion, longing, love and the pain of loss.   Everything about their love for each other is within those two shirts become one.  No one who sees the movie can ever forget that remarkable symbol.

Rayn
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 03:11:11 am by Rayn »

Offline starboardlight

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2006, 03:15:34 am »
Straboarlight's comment is a good one, too:
Being not much of an Ennis myself, I wouldn't have thought of this. But it makes sense.

and I'm too much an Ennis. It made sense to me right away. I've shut down too many times to count. It just knocked me to the ground to see so much of me in him. The way he looked/not look at Jack. His introvertion. His paralysis. Hit so close to home.
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2006, 08:00:07 pm »
.....I also think it must feel really amazing to him to hear that much devotion explicitly stated.  I think the camera does cut away before we see him fully absorb Jack's statement.  And, yup, I think his main response must be physical in the tent (although it's an ominous tent encounter since there's no moon).

I just had the opportunity to re-watch the film one more time in the cinema, and one sequence that struck me strongly was the transition from Jack's "sometimes I miss you" line and Ennis's lack of spoken reply, to the two of them in the tent, to the landscape outside with the river water rushing by in darkness. The river is still there,  the symbol of Jack's and Ennis's relationship, and its current is going strong and fast - though in the darkness of night. To me, the sequence and imagery of those two latter scenes now give an extremely expressive visual representation of the short story's "brilliant charge" being "darkened by the sense of time flying". Their feelings for and attraction to each other is just as strong (expressed through Jack's spoken line, the physical intimacy in the tent and the flowing river), but time and distance and longing have nevertheless taken their toll and darkened the mood. (ie. the dark night / moonless night sky).


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I think Ennis doesn't "have the language" to articulate what he feels about Jack, but I think the emotion of love is really there for him (probably at least from the 2nd tent scene on).  [snip]  I think also that by the second to last camping trip when Ennis asks Jack if he thinks people "know" and wonders if Jack's relationship with Lureen is "normal" he's already given up on the idea that he's not "queer."  These questions are almost outright admissions that he feels and knows what his situation is.

I agree with this. At two crucial times when Ennis tries to speak about his physical relationship to a *man*, or to men ie. about being "queer, he says "I don't know". That's his answer when Jack asks where he stands in relation to "getting into this again" after 4 years. (Though Ennis's expression there gives his *real* answer. **sigh**) And when Ennis speaks about people in the streets knowing, he starts out with: You ever get the feeling, I don't know...."

He doesn't know;  - meaning: He doesn't know how to articulate or adequately express in words all that he's nevertheless *aware* that he's feeling. For he knows that he's feeling *so very, very much*  - about getting into it again with Jack, and about being, - and being seen as, -  "queer". 

Ennis having come to consider himself a "queer" contributes significantly to the darkening of the mood in those latter scenes, I think. For that realization on his part hasn't altered his homophobic opinion of "queers"- including himself. Increased self-loathing *and* increased fear of being found out are the consequences,. Hardly bright and cheerful aspects of being deeply in love.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 09:04:51 pm by Mikaela »

Offline Meryl

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2006, 11:44:38 pm »
Quote
From Mikaela
To me, the sequence and imagery of those two latter scenes now give an extremely expressive visual representation of the short story's "brilliant charge" being "darkened by the sense of time flying". Their feelings for and attraction to each other is just as strong (expressed through Jack's spoken line, the physical intimacy in the tent and the flowing river), but time and distance and longing have nevertheless taken their toll and darkened the mood. (ie. the dark night / moonless night sky).

I like how you've likened the film technique to the story quote.  Very enlightening!  :)

That rushing water is always a powerful symbol, but here especially it takes on so much meaning.  It could also be a foretelling of the end of the relationship.  Time is rushing inexorably by, and only hours remain for them now until they part forever.  For the first time, we see where the river is flowing--it's reaching its end in the lake.

I just watched those scenes again on the DVD, and it's interesting to note that there is still movement visible in the water behind them as they sit drinking whiskey.  Then there's the shot of the stream flowing into the lake behind the dark tent (its current is gentler compared to the previous fishing trip scene--another indication of  diminishing strength?).  Finally, the lake seen the next morning is almost still--only ripples are left on the surface.  That's the last time we see water in the film, too.  :(

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Ennis having come to consider himself a "queer" contributes significantly to the darkening of the mood in those latter scenes, I think. For that realization on his part hasn't altered his homophobic opinion of "queers"- including himself. Increased self-loathing *and* increased fear of being found out are the consequences,. Hardly bright and cheerful aspects of being deeply in love.

Yes, I think that contributed a great deal to his cutting off the relationship with Cassie without a word.  In the scene with her at the bus station, I see it in his eyes now when she says "I don't get you, Ennis del Mar."  He's wondering if she'll put two and two together eventually.  The poor man is just the picture of absolute misery.  :(
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2006, 12:19:20 am »
The river is still there,  the symbol of Jack's and Ennis's relationship, and its current is going strong and fast - though in the darkness of night. To me, the sequence and imagery of those two latter scenes now give an extremely expressive visual representation of the short story's "brilliant charge" being "darkened by the sense of time flying". Their feelings for and attraction to each other is just as strong (expressed through Jack's spoken line, the physical intimacy in the tent and the flowing river), but time and distance and longing have nevertheless taken their toll and darkened the mood. (ie. the dark night / moonless night sky).

Heya Mikaela, I like this reading of the final tent scene.  I do think there's a lot to be optimistic about regarding this last moment of physical affection that we see.  It's a great "bookend" to the first tent scene... obviously at the very beginning of the first scene, Ennis jolts his hand away quickly once Jack pulls Ennis's arm around him.  And, here in the third tent scene, Ennis is peacefully embracing Jack in that exact same position (essentially) as if this is now their routine.  Adorable.  So, Ennis has come a long way.  Also, I love that you point out that the water is still strong.  I think it's important to recognize that their love/ attraction hasn't diminished, but that there are huge coming obstacles and the relationship has been stretched about to it's limit after all the years of stress and strain that have been places upon it.   Somewhere, there's a great thread kicking around about the importance of the full moon as a vital symbol of "true love".  I don't even remember if the moonlight thread is here on BetterMost or was back on imdb.  Anyway, it's been discussed that the full moon in Chinese mythology is the sign of true love... and that the moon is highlighted in BBM at key moments.  Right before the first tent scene the full moon emerges out from behind the clouds.  During the prayer of thanks camping trip the full moon is bright and clear. Etc.  So, aside from being a handy device for telling the timeline of the story... it can be read on more symbolic levels.  I think the missing moon for the last tent scene is a bit of ominous foreshadowing.



Quote
Ennis having come to consider himself a "queer" contributes significantly to the darkening of the mood in those latter scenes, I think. For that realization on his part hasn't altered his homophobic opinion of "queers"- including himself. Increased self-loathing *and* increased fear of being found out are the consequences,. Hardly bright and cheerful aspects of being deeply in love.

I think even Ennis's opinion of "queers" is deeply conflicted and complicated.  For the most part, yes, I think he wrestles with the demons of his father's homophobia and the societal expectations that he's absorbed. BUT, I also think in the Earl flashback conversation, he reveals an interesting aspect of his OWN opinions about at least Earl and Rich.  He calls them "tough old birds" and seems downhearted about the idea that they were the "joke of town" (he doesn't seem to take any glee in this observation... but he does reveal that he was paying very close attention - even as a kid - to what was happening to these two guys).  But, by acknowledging that they were tough, he's paying them a compliment.  He realizes how hard their situation was and seems to admire their ability to go on despite all the pressures.  I think this little detail is important for distinguishing Ennis's Dad from Ennis (who was clearly very observant and thoughtful, even as a kid, about the situation surrounding Earl and Rich)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2006, 02:58:36 pm »
Bump
 8)
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Offline Tristann

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2006, 04:34:40 pm »
What else did he have? That was the only tangible object that he had had to remember his darling, Jack! Looks like the shirts were enough for Ennis to spend his life remembering those unaffected/uncomplicated days at Brokeback, note the postcard  pasted/pinned near the shirts! I mean he did not even have the dubious comfort of going to Jack's grave!Beautifully enacted on the screen!   
I might be wrong here but I think he did have something else. When Ennis goes into Jack's room he finds the wooden horse and cowboy figurine he himself had carved (think earlier in the movie where they show Ennis inside the tent carving, what seems to me, said horse and cowboy). This is something I haven't seen a lot of people talk about. I'd think that Ennis gave the figurine to Jack and that he did so before they left the mountain the first time. So, in my mind, Jack did have something to remind him of Ennis.

I think that Jack realized how strongly he loved Ennis and was scared that he'll never see Ennis again. The closest he would come to Ennis was to have something very close to Ennis, i.e. his shirt. And with it the smells, memories and even blood. In my mind, the blood almost elevated the importance of the shirt to Jack, since it is a very real reminder of a very real person and a very real love. Am I making sense here? Time for bed...

Offline Rayn

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2006, 11:38:02 am »
I might be wrong here but I think he did have something else. When Ennis goes into Jack's room he finds the wooden horse and cowboy figurine he himself had carved (think earlier in the movie where they show Ennis inside the tent carving, what seems to me, said horse and cowboy). This is something I haven't seen a lot of people talk about. I'd think that Ennis gave the figurine to Jack and that he did so before they left the mountain the first time. So, in my mind, Jack did have something to remind him of Ennis.

I think that Jack realized how strongly he loved Ennis and was scared that he'll never see Ennis again. The closest he would come to Ennis was to have something very close to Ennis, i.e. his shirt. And with it the smells, memories and even blood. In my mind, the blood almost elevated the importance of the shirt to Jack, since it is a very real reminder of a very real person and a very real love. Am I making sense here? Time for bed...

Yes, you make sense Tristann and I thought at one time that figurine was the one that Ennis was carving that rainy day in the tent on BBM, it certianly seems like something Ennis recognizes when he picks it up.  But it could very well just be a boyhood toy Jack had too.  A lot of us had toys like that.  The one Ennis is carving does seem bigger too.  Who knows?  Your theory is possible, and no doubt, the shirts, blood and all, are the more powerful keepsake and symbol of their joy and pain.

Rayn

Offline delalluvia

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2006, 08:07:07 pm »
OK, I'm into the game late here, but I agree that after the punch, Jack thought it was probably over.  He saw Ennis left the shirt behind, and took it, meaning to give it back if they might meet again.

After all, Ennis is extremely poor. Taking his shirt is like someone walking in your home and stealing 50% of your wardrobe.  Ennis only had 2 shirts to his name. 

Jack tried again in town, to wring a 'maybe we'll see each other next year' outta Ennis, but it didn't work, so he decided to keep the shirt.

Now, here's a little twist (no pun intended).  Who's to say he immediately hung up the shirt in his closest at Lightning Flat?  Jack was commutin' all over the Southwest following the rodeo for a couple of years at least.  He might have kept the shirt in his truck with him all that time.  Safe from his mother's laundry and any uncomfortable questions.  It would be something to keep him warm on cold lonely nights on the road.

When he married Lureen, he finally put the shirt away in his closet at his mom's house.  Again, to 'forget' and avoid  any uncomfortable questions from Lureen.  But of course, he couldn't forget.

Since he and Ennis ended on a bad note, even though they 'torqued things almost back to what they were' is it possible, the reason Ennis found the shirts in the niche in the closet was because Jack put them there?  Out of sight out of mind?  He was done waiting for Ennis and was going to try to start anew with Randall?  He certainly told his father that, but it was probably just talk.

I do things like that.  No matter how I feel about my ex's or how we broke up, it's easier to deal with the memories if the reminders aren't right there out in the open.

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Re: what possessed Jack to take that shirt in the first place?
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2006, 05:38:19 pm »

Since he and Ennis ended on a bad note, even though they 'torqued things almost back to what they were' is it possible, the reason Ennis found the shirts in the niche in the closet was because Jack put them there?  Out of sight out of mind?  He was done waiting for Ennis and was going to try to start anew with Randall?  He certainly told his father that, but it was probably just talk.

I do things like that.  No matter how I feel about my ex's or how we broke up, it's easier to deal with the memories if the reminders aren't right there out in the open.
Hmmm...that's an interesting angle that had not occurred to me. The shirts were definitely hidden in Jack's Lightning Flat closet, and I had always assumed this was to keep them from prying eyes and hands, as Jack's secret treasures. I had not thought of the shirts being put away so that Jack could thereby  better bury the memory they represented. As with so many other details of this story, the truth can never be known...but it's an interesting speculation. Emotionally, I prefer to see the shirts as having always been treasured, and therefore hidden, rather than being hidden to negate the past.

Along these lines, it's significant that the shirts ended up in Lightning Flat, and not (apparently ever) in Childress. Jack certainly would not have wanted to risk having to explain them to Lureen, but he would have been separated from these emotionally charged totems for fairly long periods of time, a scenario that might compound our understanding of Jack's loneliness and pining for Ennis.