If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?

[SFEnnisSF]

Haven't read everybody's comments here yet, but my .02 cents FWTW..

They should have given it to him 3 years ago when he deserved it.  The Academy blew it and there's no redemption for them!  It exposed them (The Oscars) for what they really are...  Funny how the ratings keep goin' lower and lower each year.     Nobody cares anymore. 

[Penthesilea]

Does anybody remember what Dustin Hoffman said? I think he came on stage at some point after (all or some of) the acting awards were announced, and looked down at Heath, Jake, and Michelle, and said something like, "Don't be sad...you're young...there'll be other chances..."

Yes, I remember this.  I don't remember the words he used, but that was the gist.  It was lovely, because he didn't say it to just anybody - he said it to the people he thought ought to have won, and he said it on an enormous telecast, from the heart. 

If only he had been right about there being enough time...

This is news to me, I've never heard about it yet. I've always liked Dustin Hoffman very much, but he just went up a notch or two in my appreciation .

Like Elle, I think if only....

[Mikaela]

Here's my bet, and I'm taking it to the bank:  He'll get a posthumous nomination.  But he will not win.

And I will not be watching, in any event.

If it were closer to the time for nominations, I would completely agree with your bet. But nominations being half a year away...? Half a year is a long time in this industry... so I'm not sure that the Joker performance won't just be "taken for granted" by then,  hence the immediacy of the impact of the performance's quality may have paled and lost its punch already - once the media and industry fuss long since has moved on to something entirely else. So I don't feel sure about the nomination. Based on that time factor, the general bias against this kind of movie, and the fact that the actor has passed away, I rather think they will end up not nominating in this instance - the better to be able to give nomination pats on the back to people they owe one and who are around to "collect the debt" or to repay the favour later with interest. 

There was a lengthy article about the Oscar chances in USAToday 2 days ago, - putting it into perspective.

Link is here; "Dark Joker looks to be an Oscar Wild card": http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-07-17-ledger-oscar_N.htm


How fast everyone forgets? Well, here's an example. Towards the end the above article it now says: "Nolan, too, says he had no reservations about Ledger, whom he hired after seeing the actor's disparate work in Brokeback Mountain (Ledger was nominated for best actor), Monster's Ball and Lords of Dogtown."   But when it was first published and I first read it, the article said that Heath had earned a supporting actor nom for BBM.   

(Some Heathen must subsequently have notified them of the slip.... )

[retropian]

Well, I saw TDK yesterday (Monday) at the noon showing at my local theater. Great time to go, the place was 3/4's empty so I got exactly the seat I wanted, and no one sitting next to me, Delightful. Any way, Heath more that deserves a nomination. Rarely can it be said "the hype is true", but he exceeds every imagined expectation.

[HerrKaiser]

Haven't read everybody's comments here yet, but my .02 cents FWTW..

They should have given it to him 3 years ago when he deserved it.  The Academy blew it and there's no redemption for them!  It exposed them (The Oscars) for what they really are...  Funny how the ratings keep goin' lower and lower each year.     Nobody cares anymore. 

I agree with this pov completely. The AA have, actually, a pretty long list of abuses when it comes to making the wrong choices for its so-called winners. Does anyone even mention the film Capote or Phillip S Hoffman anymore? Or Crash? They were less than flashes in the pan and will remain the undeserved spoilers for BBM's best film and best actor awards.

History cannot be changed or made right by scrambling to offer compensation later on. You can't unring a bell. Ledger's Dark Knight performance should stand on its own merits, as his role in BBM should have.

Many people are still in a rightful snit over the 2005 awards and I am among them. The academy has turned out to be no different than congress; a bunch of self engrandized losers with idiots at the helm who can be bought.

[ednbarby]

I remember what Dustin Hoffman did, now.  He came out and said something about how the awards should not be about politics and box office proceeds, but about the best performances.  And then he *bowed* to Heath and mouthed "Mr. Ledger."  I guess there was something else about being young and there still being time, but I was so blown away by Dustin Hoffman bowing to Heath Ledger, that the rest of it is just a blur.

I still hold that Heath will absolutely be nominated, and could, in fact, quite possibly win.  The Academy is desperate to resurrect their rapidly sinking ratings.  So desperate that they will cater to the idiot masses (yet again) by honoring the very person they shamelessly punished just three years ago for daring to fuck with their precious cowboy icon.

They are not looking for redemption.  They are looking to bale out their sinking ship.  They wouldn't know a truly great performance if it bit them on their wrinkled, old asses.  Look at what they honored last year.  Daniel Day-Lewis, screaming and sputtering and spitting through yet another over-the-top performance.  (Yes, I love him as a person for what he did at the SAG Awards, but I'm sorry - I think he is quite possibly the most over-rated actor ever.)  And Javier Bardem giving a completely one-note performance as a pitiless sociopath.  Please.  I could do that in my sleep.  They got it right with the actresses for once.  But most of the same idiots they'll be catering to next time around don't even know who the fuck they are.

Mark my words.  They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.

[loneleeb3]

giving a completely one-note performance as a pitiless sociopath.  Please.  I could do that in my sleep.

Remind me not to piss you off!! 

I agree with everything you said.

They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.

It's so sad they see people as commodities to be bought and sold used and thrown away.

[retropian]

The Academy is desperate to resurrect their rapidly sinking ratings.  So desperate that they will cater to the idiot masses (yet again) by honoring the very person they shamelessly punished just three years ago for daring to fuck with their precious cowboy icon.

They are not looking for redemption.  They are looking to bale out their sinking ship.  They wouldn't know a truly great performance if it bit them on their wrinkled, old asses.

Mark my words.  They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.

Yes, excellent points and I agree with most of them. I think redeeming themselves is pretty much the same as baling out their sinking ship. I think they do know a truly great performance. They know Heaths portrayal of Ennis is one of the all time great acting feats in cinema history and they know they really blew it by not awarding him. (although I like P.S.H. neither he nor Capote was in the same league and Heath and BBM)
The Academy will try to redeem themselves by awarding Heath, or rather his memory in an attempt to compensate for robbing him and BBM 3 years ago and in an attempt to shore up their sagging ratings and reputation. But having said that, Heath turn as The Joker is beyond incredible. Another astounding acting performance that stands on its own and alive or not, he should get a nomination.

[Brown Eyes]

I think it would not redeem the Academy, on the contrary it would solidify my opinion of them.

Not rewarding Heath's beautiful Ennis, a veritable acting miracle, a whole human life presented over two hours - and then rewarding this?!? I shudder at the very thought. But money talks, so one never knows.

I'd just like to chime in and highlight this sentiment again.  This is very close to how I feel about the situation too Mikaela.

I really, really enjoyed TDK and have now seen it twice.  Heath was absolutely brilliant at re-interpreting the Joker, but the role itself was nothing in comparison to Ennis IMHO.  Ennis remains Heath's real masterpiece and it's clear it took huge amounts of impressively/ unusually strong acting talent to bring Ennis to life the way Heath did.  Ennis just seems like so much more of an important character than the Joker (who, afterall is sort of a pop icon character who has been tackled many times by other actors, illustrators and writers... while Ennis has so much more gravitas and Heath was inventing this interpretation of Ennis from scratch.).

The travesty of the Oscars is that it snubbed BBM in general.  To me that's the main issue... BBM as a whole.  

The Academy has messed up so many times in the past with so many great films going deep into its history (Citizen Kane being the main and most glaring historical error/ snub that can be cited easily), that the BBM debacle was sort of the last straw for me in terms of the Academy's credibility.   I see the Oscars, more than ever, as a political thing now.

To me, the urge to even hope a film/ actor will win an Oscar almost seems beside the point now when it comes to the concept of awarding a film/ acting job based on quality.

I'm sure I will watch the Oscars in the future simply for the spectacle... to watch the clothes, etc., but I don't take them all that seriously anymore.

Even several years out now, I'm still very bitter about the BBM snub.


It also makes me so, so sad to think that the Joker may come to overshadow Ennis in the way that the general public will remember and think of Heath.  Based on the number of people going to see TDK, it seems like that may come to be the case for the mass public... and might be even more the case if he were to win a posthumous Oscar.

[loneleeb3]

Heath was absolutely brilliant at re-interpreting the Joker, but the role itself was nothing in comparison to Ennis IMHO.  Ennis remains Heath's real masterpiece and it's clear it took huge amounts of impressively/ unusually strong acting talent to bring Ennis to life the way Heath did.  Ennis just seems like so much more of an important character than the Joker (who, afterall is sort of a pop icon character who has been tackled many times by other actors, illustrators and writers... while Ennis has so much more gravitas and Heath was inventing this interpretation of Ennis from scratch.).

Friend, that says it all beautifully!
Great points! Ths is the heart and the truth of the matter.
I can safely say the Joker has never changed anyones life.
Ennis changed mine and so many others.
Were it not for Heaths Ennis, I don't know where I'd be.
This old road I'm on is rough and Rutted but I wouldn't have it anyother way.