Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic

[Katie77]

Sounds like trouble waiting to happen to me and thats more because of the alcolhol and how it stirs people into doing things that they would not normally do while sober. If the straights think it is an exhibitionist thing, then they probably wont accept it without some form of confrontation. A lot depends on how the gay group behave.

Now, how would gays accept it if straights took over one of their bars, especially if they could see it had been organised to do so?

The concept is great, to have both groups mix and integrate, but whether it will work or not is another thing.

[milomorris]

Now, how would gays accept it if straights took over one of their bars, especially if they could see it had been organised to do so?

There would be hell to pay, and you know it!!

[milomorris]

http://www.vueweekly.com/article.php?id=2084

Thank you, Truman. This article you posted makes me think that I may have judged this activity a bit harshly. But I still have some problems with it.

First, I do this type of thing on my own all the time. I am famous (OK...notorious  ) for walking into a town where I've never been; sitting down; and having a few drinks. Inevitably, I will connect with someone(s) on a social level. By the time my sexual orientation comes up in the conversation, they are usually already at ease with me, and therefore it is not problematic. I really think the group thing makes it artificial. 3-4-5 people maybe, but a couple hundred?? Overkill and fabrication.

Second, I hate the title. Gorilla Gay Bar. Who the hell came up with that??? This effort needs better PR.

So...what do I like about the idea:

Among the 30 or so participants, there were no drag queens, divas or crazy costumes, as is the norm in cities with established guerrilla events. Part of the reason behind this conservatism is that it was a first event and participants, having just met each other for the first time, were quite cautious. “We were just sticking our toes in the water rather than jumping in full-hog,” says Samuel.

And since Gorilla Gay Bars are supposed to accurately reflect the local queer community, it didn’t seem fitting to be outrageous, Samuel says, because Edmonton just doesn’t have a large queer community fond of lavish spectacle; the extravagant members that Edmonton does have were, coincidentally, busy at their own event, an annual drag-queen ball being held that same evening. “It wasn’t the party crowd that came out,” Samuel says. “It was the activist crowd, and I think very typical of what you’d expect from an Edmonton group and a first event.”

- These people are practicing something that I have been espousing for quite some time. Specifically, the idea that the best way to combat homophobia is via normalized relationships with heterosexuals. Their mission is consistent with that philosophy.

- They stayed away from the outrageous, and (hopefully) the stereotypical.

- I wonder how many of them were asked serious questions, and were able to answer intelligently and with understanding.

- They were interested in representing the broadest segment of the not-exclusively-hetero population. And they did this within the context of the center of that population. They found that the center looked more like an dentist than a diva.

As I have said many times: Things go best when we don't lead with sexuality. There are more interesting things about us.

Milo

[pnwDUDE]

“Gorilla Gay Bars bring together a whole bunch of political and cultural goals in one package,” says Chris Samuel, organizer of the event and co-host of CJSR’s Gaywire. “We wanted to increase the visibility of the gay community and to go into places where gay people aren’t traditionally seen and build a safe presence there. It’s a way for us to expand our horizons and not limit ourselves to one bar identity.”

Above quoted from the Vue article.

Not exactly a take-over or a "We're Queer, we're here, and we're in your face" initiative. After much thought and while I wouldn't participate in such an event, I think it's a great idea. Unlike Edmonton, more and more gays--groups or otherwise--are frequenting straight clubs and bars. I see it all the time. While gay bars appear to flourish in Oklahoma City and the like, they are closing up in Seattle and Portland. Like all good ideas, though, it would take a few to ruin the concept. Lesbian women have better grasp of boundaries. Many gay men, especially cutsie, bitchy young queens or the well-healed and middle aged, "oh smell her" crowd, simply don't respect straight men. Especially if they are good looking. In a crowd they can be overt, overbearing, and down right embarassing. Like, 'leave the poor hunky straight guy alone, already'. He ain't interested in you. I can see, especially in numbers and the inclusion of many $8 Martini's, this becoming a problem. And the first time one of these gay guys goes stepping over boundaries and gets his ass kicked, none of it will be his fault and it will be chocked up to homophobia and intolerance, and the whole thing will be like taking one step forward and two back. Traditional gay bars and the Castro's of the past have been confines. Islands if you will, and not without reason. I don't think they are needed anymore. Leave the assless chaps, the high-heels, and the boa's home, respect straight people and at the end of the day, I don't think a majority of people gives a rats ass. Wanna parade around in sequined jock straps or dress like Tallulah Bankhead, save it for Halloween, Mardi Gras, or that dying gay bar down the street.

Rather this particular idea goes south or not, I believe this is actually a big step, among many, over the past few years in an effort to assimilate. This is a great chance for guys that don't fit in to the streotypical gay strata to meet like men who may be homo but hang in hetro venues cause', well, it's more comfortable then those pretentious gay bars or "Queer as Folk" type body-marts.

Brad

[Katie77]

I never thought to mention this before but I was sitting talking to my son and daughter in law yesterday and they were telling me about their night out last week.

We live in a large "country" town with a population of 24,000 in Australia. Most of the population here are just your normal working class people, farmers and tradesmen, locals who have lived here for generations, and people who have moved here from the city for a quieter life.

The most popular pub in town attracts most of the younger crowd (18-40) every friday and saturday night. They have music and dancing and its generally known as the place to go for a good night out.

Every second Saturday night, they have what they call "diverse" night. Gays and straights mingle and dance and generally mix between one another.  From what I hear it is very successful, there have been no violent incidents and everyone gets along fine.

I think when it was first started, a lot of the youngens went along for the curiosity value, but from what my son tells me now, the gay/straight thing is not even a big deal anymore, and everyone just goes on having a good time with their friends.

Of course the pub is open to both gay and straight patrons on any night, but the "diverse" night has turned into something special and has turned into social event that they all look forward to.

As far as I know, there is no particular "gay bar" in town, but undoubtedly there would be some place either here, or in another close town where the gay community socialize independently. I am not into the gay scene so have never inquired or asked about it.

This town, would have been similar to your mid western towns back in the sixties. It was settled by men returning from World War 2, who were brought up through the depression, who, after the war, worked for the railway, or cut sugar cane, or ran dairy farms. Some never ventured to the big cities.

To see their grandchildren and great grandchildren living in such a non homophobic society, and socializing and mixing is an enormous achievement.

So done properly, these kind of events can be successful, with no intimidation or intrusion. I still dont like the idea of planning an "invasion" of a gay bar, but the sentiment behind it, is worth continuing with as long as it is done with respect and dignity.

[milomorris]

as long as it is done with respect and dignity.

You just said a mouthful, Katie. Its amazing what one can accomplish if it is done with respect and dignity.

And thanks for sharing that story about the pub in your town. Back in the 80s, I was living in Bermuda. There were no gay bars there at the time (I don't think they have any now either). So everyone just went to whatever bar they liked best. Everyone got along just fine. If a guy was interested, he was interested. If not, he just said so. Pretty darn simple.

Milo

[injest]

What do you guys think of this?  I'm have joined Guerilla Gay Bar.  But I've never actually participated in it yet.  I may seem all political regarding gay rights, but I'm still not quite an activist.  GGB is a secret event that happens once a month.  Basically, group organizers send out a series of emails that hint at a meeting place on a specific night of the week.  The last email informing everyone of the meeting place goes out a day or on the same day of the scheduled event.  What happens on that evening is several hundred gay men and/or women show up at a straight/hetero establishment and turn it into a gay bar for the evening without warning.  Cool, and just a tad scary.  Would you participate?

so with all this...

have you decided to take part?

we want to know what happened!!

[optom3]

When I was back in England,there was a whole street of gay bars in Manchester (north England). They were incredibly popular with everyone, male,female,gay or straight.It gradually became known as the part of town to have a good time.In fact during the day it was just as busy, with the office folk who descended for a drink and sandwich.
The whole thing became part of the Manchester scene, with bands like The Verve, Blur and Oasis, and it seemed like Manchester, was the center of the world.
It was still going strong when I left England.I have been there with gay friends, male and female and straight too.I never had anything less than an amazing time.
I still can't get my head around the fact that the USA allegedly one of, if not the biggest super power in the world can be so backward in some areas.
Even in Greece, on the island of Santorini, fabulous bars and clubs, predominantly gay, but always with a mixed queue to get in.It seems to me that gays seem much better at having a good time than straights like me.Same goes for Ibetha, the club capital of the world.
Why is it so difficult here, to have the same situation.I cannot understand it.
What I have noticed is that way, way more people are church goers here, compared with most of Europe, yet we seem to be more tolerant.I wonder of there is a link there somewhere.
In the meantime check out Santorini for a holiday,a truly stunning island, famed for the best sunsets in the world, and with as many mixed bars/clubs as anyone could want.Ditto Ibetha.

[CellarDweller]

I still can't get my head around the fact that the USA allegedly one of, if not the biggest super power in the world can be so backward in some areas.

Oh, trust me.....it's backwards. 

Even in the gay areas, bashings happen. Like this story of out club performer Kevin Aviance.

(Taken from Wikipedia) On June 10, 2006 while exiting the Phoenix, a popular gay bar located in the East Village, Manhattan, he was robbed and beaten by a group of men who yelled anti-gay slurs at him. Four suspects were arrested under New York's hate-crime law, but reports say up to seven men were involved in the attack.  Despite suffering a broken jaw, he insisted on appearing in the city's gay pride parade later that month.

On March 21, 2007 all four assailants pled guilty, receiving prison sentences ranging from 6 to 15 years in plea agreements that included hate crimes embellishments. The four young men, who range in age from 17 to 21 years old, had faced up to 25 years each for the attack, had they been found guilty in a trial. All had been charged with gang assault as a hate crime.

[oilgun]

I haven't read the article, for some reason, the link to the Vue article didn't work for me but I like the idea of the Guerrilla Gay Bar if only for nostalgic reasons.

It reminds me of back in the seventies (When porn was expensive and sex was free  ) when it was the trend for (activist) gays to make Public Displays of Affection for political reasons.   This basically consisted of holding hands or walking arm in arm and maybe some kissing.   

They weren't organized events, just things we tried to do during our everyday lives when the occasion presented itself, such as walking around in public with another willing gay person.  The idea was to normalise gay people (Yikes!  The dreaded Gay Agenda!), to show that "we are everywhere".   If we swarmed a bar or restaurant as a group, it was usually as a response to some anti-gay incident at that establishment. 

I'm surprised that there would be a need for Guerrilla Gay Bars (sorry Milo, I love the name) in this day and age.  But then we are talking Edmonton here.  Alberta is basically the Texas of Canada...