Love Scene

[Gabreya]

Forgive me if this was originally posted. Please don't attack me.

What were you're thoughts when you first seen the first tent/sex scene? And after?

For me, before I go on to the subject, 2 years ago when I first seen the movie on HBO when I was 16, the movie blown me away and I was crying. Somehow even way before I'd seen it and was an obsessed Brokie freak, I knew it would be a unique and wonderful film.

Now, my first thoughts on when I first seen the love scene between Ennis and Jack in the tent were like,"What the hell? That looks wierd. Damn, that should hurt." I was a bit freaked out at first but then as time went on, I'd gotten use to it and just like any other female Brokie, the scene turned me on big time. The scene was played out well and it's definetly every woman's fantasy. Both Heath and Jake did a very good job in that scene and I know it took a lot of time, effort, preparation, discussion, and bravery to do it. Especially since both of them are sexy. But, the whole point of the scene was to show how the huge, introverted emotions and passion had finally unleashed for both of them in that scene.

How about y'all?
Feel free to discuss.

[Katie77]

I too, must have known that BBM was gonna be a movie that I would never forget. There are lots of movies I see the trailers for and think, "Oh I must go and see that", but never do, but with BBM I watched the local papers every day waiitng for the movie to come to my town, and was there on the first day it screened.

I had never read the book, nor read anything on the net about it, just a couple of film reviews in the paper, so I was not familiar with the story, all I knew was that it was a "love story between two cowboys".
I actually thought the "cowboys" were gonna be cowboys from the old wild west, so my first surprise in the movie was that it was set in 1963.

As the movie started, then progressed I kept thinking "when are they gonna fall in love, its gotta happen soon", so the beginning of the movie at that first viewing seemed a bit slow and drawn out as it got to the time when Ennis and Jack committed to what was happening to them both.

Never in my wildest thoughts did I think the initial "love scene" be what it was. I was a little embarrassed, and wondered if it was necessary to show so much detail, and my comments afterwards were that "the movie was fantastic, but they probably could have left out the sexual love scene, maybe just flap the tent or something a little bit more discreet".

Even at my second viewing a few days later, and accompanied by someone different to who I saw it the first time, I was still a little uneasy when I knew it was coming up, and wondered how my friend would react to it.

By the third viewing, another week later, the uneasiness had gone, and I was more relaxed about it, even looked forward to when it was coming up, and probably watched it more closely than I had previously, and finally found it pleasant, even exciting to a point.

More and more viewings only extended the excitement of the scene, more understanding of it, feeling the pure animalistic lust that the boys were feeling, and the realization of the importance of it to the rest of the movie. Without it, maybe we would all be stll wondering how and if it happened.

Just to enlighten you as to what an initiation it was for me, at the time I was 54 yrs old, and that was the first time ever, that I had ever seen a gay sexual act. I had never even seeen it in a still picture, let alone in a movie. Of course I knew that that was the way gay men made love, but I had never seen a visual of it.

Now it damwell turns me on a little, but not as much as TS2, but thats just the female hormones, more receptive to the romantic and gentle side of love making.

[Artiste]

Katie, you surprise me well: your post is so clear and phrased!!

I admire it!

And I love you thread          Gabreya          !

Will post later... since I want to re-read your posts !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

I had read the book first and was curious to know how the sex would be handled. I was however more concerned as to if and when I would cry.
I had sobbed buckets reading the story.In the end the first time I saw the film was at home on DVD.
For me that turned out to be a wise move. I found the sex scene a big turn on, which I had expected, as it has always been a fantasy of mine. TS2 I fell in love with immediatey, ditto the reunion kiss and motel scene.
Having read the book I assumed I was reasonably prepared for my reactions. I could not have been me wrong. The scene at the Twist house and then
 Ennis's trailer didn't just have me crying I was sobbing uncontrolably.
I don't think I have ever cried like that in my life.I would have died if it had happened at the movie theater.
The story had been given to me by someone very special who was hoping I would read it and see sense.I didn't. Consequently seeing Ennis, who was in effect me, throwing it all away, was too much to bear.
I have no idea why, as a heterosexual woman I find 2 men having sex such a turn on, but I do and have done for as long as I can remember.
Sometimes I just stop the movie there, to avoid the sobbing later on.Sometimes I get as far as the motel scene.I very rarely get to the end.I watched the whole film last week and as per normal just crumbled at the end.

[Gabreya]

Thanks, Katie, Artiste, and optom. You guys are great and I agree about the emotion of this movie. It had me crying a bunch of times and I'm a very sensitive girl.

The love scene between the two of them was a huge turn on EVERYTIME I see it. Of course. I was a bit shocked, startled, and uncomfortable at first, too. But, when I'd seen the second to third to fourth etc. times, I became used to it and really loved the scene. It would always 'GET' to me, even no matter how hard I try not to let it arouse me. Doesn't work. It was to make us the audience see where their passions began physically. The sexual tension had finally broke when Jack had first put Ennis's hand on him. The way I see it, he WANTED Ennis's touch badly. He was emotionally, mentally, and sexually attracted to him. He wanted to send a message to him that he was in love with him and that he was highly sexually pining for him that he couldn't take it anymore. And Ennis was a virgin at the time so he didn't know how to react to it. Jack on the other, it was a bit unclear if he was a virgin or not but he definetly felt comfortable and hungrily ready to feel what it's like to make love to Ennis or the other way around.
Plus, I think the scene was also a hidden meaning that Ennis and Jack in a way were telling eachother that they each are gay and they're sexually attracted to eachother by their actions(i.e. the hand on the crotch under the blanket, the holding eachother faces, the increasing breathing between them before and during, etc.).

And I agree with you about the Second Tent Scene. I find that scene very cute, emotionally, and sweet. I mean, Jack being gentle and affectionate towards Ennis was just beautiful. And when he kissed him, it was not only hot but also sweet. It was warm and loving. It was almost as if WE as the viewers 'felt' the first kiss he gave him. It was beautifully done by two great actors. You know, everytime I look at that scene, I wonder how Heath and Jake got their nerves together to actually kiss eachother. I know they had to really talk this out but after a while, they probably had gotten use to it. I've seen them deliciously kiss women but kissing eachother really took the cake. It was beyond peaches and cream. It was beyond sweet. Let me put it at that.
But, yeah, on that part of the scene, it showed how they're characters are starting to feel and accept the love from eachother.

Personally, I think both the 1st Tent Scene and the 2nd Tent Scene are two of the best scenes from the movie.

[Katie77]

The Reunion scene is the scene I just play over and over.

Like I said, I had no idea of the story, so on first viewing I as I waited for Jack to arrive, I was a bit like Ennis, edgy and impatient, waiting to see how they would act towards one another after four "fucking" years. I was frightened it would be uncomfortable for them. I thought, that they would both hide their feelings and we as the viewer would be frustrated by this, and we would have to wait some time for them to finally admit their feelings.

BUT.......when Ennis grabbed Jack and pushed him against the wall, I could hardly breathe. I sucked in the bggest gulp of air, and felt like it was Ennis sucking the breath out of me and not just Jack. That kiss is the most memorable kiss in any movie I have ever seen.

The relief also, that I felt, that they were showing each other their feelings, that they were not gonna hide them, oh god, I thought, thank goodness they both feel the same, and they are not hiding it.

I was so entranced with that scene, and feeling so good about it, I was on a wave of eurphoria, and then when Alma unexpectantly opened the door, I nearly threw up.... NO NO NO NO....dont spoil it, please dont spoil it. I was sick to my stomach, for both Alma and the thought of the consequences.

Sometimes I wish I had read the book before I saw the movie, to prepare me for all of these scenes.

[optom3]

Thanks, Katie, Artiste, and optom. You guys are great and I agree about the emotion of this movie. It had me crying a bunch of times and I'm a very sensitive girl.

The love scene between the two of them was a huge turn on EVERYTIME I see it. Of course. I was a bit shocked, startled, and uncomfortable at first, too. But, when I'd seen the second to third to fourth etc. times, I became used to it and really loved the scene. It would always 'GET' to me, even no matter how hard I try not to let it arouse me. Doesn't work. It was to make us the audience see where their passions began physically. The sexual tension had finally broke when Jack had first put Ennis's hand on him. The way I see it, he WANTED Ennis's touch badly. He was emotionally, mentally, and sexually attracted to him. He wanted to send a message to him that he was in love with him and that he was highly sexually pining for him that he couldn't take it anymore. And Ennis was a virgin at the time so he didn't know how to react to it. Jack on the other, it was a bit unclear if he was a virgin or not but he definitely felt comfortable and hungrily ready to feel what it's like to make love to Ennis or the other way around.
Plus, I think the scene was also a hidden meaning that Ennis and Jack in a way were telling eachother that they each are gay and they're sexually attracted to eachother by their actions(i.e. the hand on the crotch under the blanket, the holding eachother faces, the increasing breathing between them before and during, etc.).

And I agree with you about the Second Tent Scene. I find that scene very cute, emotionally, and sweet. I mean, Jack being gentle and affectionate towards Ennis was just beautiful. And when he kissed him, it was not only hot but also sweet. It was warm and loving. It was almost as if WE as the viewers 'felt' the first kiss he gave him. It was beautifully done by two great actors. You know, everytime I look at that scene, I wonder how Heath and Jake got their nerves together to actually kiss eachother. I know they had to really talk this out but after a while, they probably had gotten use to it. I've seen them deliciously kiss women but kissing eachother really took the cake. It was beyond peaches and cream. It was beyond sweet. Let me put it at that.
But, yeah, on that part of the scene, it showed how they're characters are starting to feel and accept the love from eachother.

Personally, I think both the 1st Tent Scene and the 2nd Tent Scene are two of the best scenes from the movie.

I don't know whether it is different for men, but I have shared passionate kisses with a couple of women. I then  fell desperately in love with the love of my life.Kissing him was not so different from kissing a woman.Some people can kiss well and some just can't.
Heath in one interview said basically it is just kissing another human being,I thought that was a pretty mature attitude.
For me kissing a woman was a natural progression from the very deep friendship bond we had formed. There was no embarrassment attached, quite the reverse, it seemed the most natural thing in the world.
I suspect for Heath and Jake , with all the cameras etc around it was probably not much more difficult than a straight kiss or sex scene. I do know I was utterly convinced by their desperate sexual attraction and love for each other. That in itself is an amazing feat for 2 straight man.In fact I only ever see Ennis and Jack.
O

[Gabreya]

I don't know whether it is different for men, but I have shared passionate kisses with a couple of women. I then  fell desperately in love with the love of my life.Kissing him was not so different from kissing a woman.Some people can kiss well and some just can't.
Heath in one interview said basically it is just kissing another human being,I thought that was a pretty mature attitude.
For me kissing a woman was a natural progression from the very deep friendship bond we had formed. There was no embarrassment attached, quite the reverse, it seemed the most natural thing in the world.
I suspect for Heath and Jake , with all the cameras etc around it was probably not much more difficult than a straight kiss or sex scene. I do know I was utterly convinced by their desperate sexual attraction and love for each other. That in itself is an amazing feat for 2 straight man.In fact I only ever see Ennis and Jack.
O

Agreed. Yeah, I remember Heath saying that, too. He said it like it was nothing to be ashamed of. I respect that. I wasn't annoyed by it at all. And I agree. Kissing a man or woman in a way doesn't make any difference. We're human beings.
I think Heath and Jake had a lot of trust within eachother to do these Ennis and Jack love scenes. And I think that was one of the reasons, in real life, they had gotten closer the way they did.

[Gabreya]

You know, I realized this scene is one of those scenes in movies that make the audience 'FEEL' what the characters are feeling. Seriously, it's a very well acted scene and they did a good job on capturing the audiences emotion and feeling. I think for us females, the scene got us feeling what the two guys had felt for eachother.

[tampatalon]

I have found this thread very enlightening with the views profiled here.
From my view as a gay male I remember being absolutely shocked at the
FNIT scene in a Tampa theatre that night. I did not know much about BBM
before I went but I knew I must see it. The sexual act of course did not shock me
and flowed very naturally but as soon as it was over I was startled. As I sat in the
theatre in the moment it was over you could hear a pin drop. Stunned I did not
believe I just saw such a private moment between the boys and felt like I had
stumbled into it, like walking in on your parents. I looked around and the audience
seemed to try to adjust themselves as well as I did back to normal. Or should I
use the world normal? After Brokeback life changed and never went back to what
was normal. Thanks to the boys and Brokeback. I never have to try to be the "old"
normal again.

Brokeback released me to live!

TampaTalon ^">

[Katie77]

Brokeback released me to live!

TampaTalon ^">

I guess those words say it all Tampa, and not only for people of the gay community, but I think it released a lot of us, from some kind of "closet".

[optom3]

I guess those words say it all Tampa, and not only for people of the gay community, but I think it released a lot of us, from some kind of "closet".

Could not agree more.For me as the tears flowed they acted like a release valve.All the things that had been festering away, buried so deep just rose to the surface and eploded out. I was no longer in a position to change anything, but at long last , at least I could acknowledge things.A much healthier state of mind was the result.

[Artiste]

So females have different closets too ?

Is that one reason why females relate to Ennis and Jack??

May I ask ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

So females have different closets too ?

Is that one reason why females relate to Ennis and Jack??

May I ask ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

Speaking for myself only, I can understand loving another woman and that not necessarily meaning I am gay.Humans have an infinite capacity for love, and it does not always need to be pigeon holed.
I think maybe men have a more difficult time separating love for a man with being gay.I am not really qualified to speak on that part though.I think that Ennis found the love of his life and that just happened to be another man, Jack.  He is not able to process or accept this and so begins the start of his slide into despair.I have never been 100% sold on the idea that Ennis is gay.He is certainly in love and physically very attracted to Jack, but I am not sure how far that makes him gay.
Jack is different, he loves Ennis, physically and emotionally, but he also has sex with other men.I think in his case he is almost certainly gay. As with everything to do with the film and s.s it is ambiguous and open to a whole host of interpretations.

So I think women can empathise on many levels, emotionally and physically.The added element is that for me the sex is also a turn on, as are the tender scenes.I would suspect for a straight man this might not be the case.But again because of societies unwritten rules that straight men have to follow, I don't suppose they would ever dare to admit if they found any aspect of the film a turn on, or even just tender and human.

It seems to me that it is still more acceptable for a woman to be physical with another woman, even if that is only a big long hug, in times of distress.We think nothing of it.Straight men are trapped by societies dictates..Even if their world is falling apart, they could on the whole, never sit and be hugged by even their best male friend.

It is something that has always saddened me, consequently I have taught both my boys to be very affectionate by showing them masses of physical affection.I also encouraged my husband to do the same.It is sad all the same when I see my boys being rebuffed if they try to hug a good friend who is leaving to go home.
Why is it acceptable for women, and not men. I fear my boys will end up the same as all the generations before them.Not because they feel like that, but because  others are embarrassed by the gesture. So back to square one.

Do men not hurt as well ? of course they do.So do they not then in times of distress need the human warmth from a good friend?Well of course is the answer to that one as well. So why does society find it unacceptable for men but not women.

I am on a roll now.I have recently had to tell my 11 year old son not to mention at school that when he is upset he still gets into bed with me.That is just plain wrong.He still needs his mum to hug him when he has a nightmare or a bad day.Yet I know full well that if other boys at school found out, there would be all sorts of implications and inferences.

It is of course O.K for my daughter to get into bed with me, but then her father has to get out, for the same reasons.The problem is that a few sick people, have taken away the joy of a parent to be able to provide comfort and physical affection ie hugs, to their kids when they are upset at night.When I told my oldest not to mention at school, I even began to feel like a criminal, for hugging my son. This world is a very mixed up place.Too much hate and not enough love and affection.

I believe that one of the main reasons some men have enormous difficulties in expressing any emotion is a fear of how society will judge them. I am not instantly branded gay, if I cuddle with my best friend.But if my husband were to do that,I can just imagine the reaction.I do feel that some of the mediterranean countries are several steps ahead of Britain and America. We could do worse than to copy them.I know when we left England my husband was terribly upset to say goodbye to his close friend, as was I.The difference, I hugged my friend as if my life depended on it. My husband and friend had a bit of that back clapping sort of thing, very sad.

O.K I am off my soap box now.

[Artiste]

Merci optom!

WELL said... are your messages in your post!!
...

May I add:

Men certainly view some sex scenes differently that women do... it seems, in the Brokekack Movie movie!

My straight brother advanced the first sex scene, and did so rapidly seeing what was starting to happen! Did any females do that, may I ask?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Katie77]

Once again Fiona, your words stir up memories, and and anxieties. I am so glad, when I had my kids, I did not have to contend with societies reactions to our actions with our own children. It pisses me off, that parents now, have in the back of their mind, that normal actions like your child getting into bed with you, may be looked at, as something wrong or dirty, damwell pisses me off. I am not pissed with the parents, but with society for making them that way.

It brought back a memory for me, that I cherish......Back in 1971, I was 19 and  7 months pregnant with my first son, my dear 22 yr old sister had just been killed in a boating accident, and at the time my husband was in the navy and we were on a navy base 8000 miles from my family. I flew down to Sydney to be with my family, and my husband had to stay at the naval base. One night, I was visiting some dear friends of mine and my sisters, they were my parents age, and the most beautiful and caring people you could imagine, and they were an enormous comfort to me in my time of grief. I was too upset to drive home from visiting them, so decided to stay the night. I went to bed, and my friends heard me crying, alone in my bed, so the wife, Rose, said, come in with us and we will give you a cuddle. I did not think twice, about crawling into their bed, slept in the middle of them, and felt the comfort and love from both of them.  Never once, did the thought that this was anything more than a parent/child sort of connection ever cross my mind or their mind. It was so natural and a normal occurence that I spoke about it to my friends and family later, in the same way as I spoke about them making me a cup of tea, and the reactions or non reactions from those I told, were the same as mine.

As I sit here now writing about it, I cherish the memory, and am overhwlemed with the fact that I was able to experience something so wonderful and remember that night, as one of the most beautiful outpoouring of love that some people never get the chance to experience.

[injest]

I have found this thread very enlightening with the views profiled here.
From my view as a gay male I remember being absolutely shocked at the
FNIT scene in a Tampa theatre that night. I did not know much about BBM
before I went but I knew I must see it. The sexual act of course did not shock me
and flowed very naturally but as soon as it was over I was startled. As I sat in the
theatre in the moment it was over you could hear a pin drop. Stunned I did not
believe I just saw such a private moment between the boys and felt like I had
stumbled into it, like walking in on your parents. I looked around and the audience
seemed to try to adjust themselves as well as I did back to normal. Or should I
use the world normal? After Brokeback life changed and never went back to what
was normal. Thanks to the boys and Brokeback. I never have to try to be the "old"
normal again.

Brokeback released me to live!

TampaTalon ^">

I just realized something...and it is so surprizing to me to have an epiphany about this movie after all this time, and after so many viewings. For a long time I have expressed my surprise (and chagrin) that my SON and I share the same taste in men, dark, affectionate, self confident, tall, good sense of humor, etc...

I just realized that in the FNIT, Jack imitates what my husband does when he wants to have sex.....when I am asleep or drifting off and he wants to 'test the water' he will send one hand over as a scout to see if I will welcome or reject it...Jack takes Ennis's hand and pulls it over to 'test the water'!!

It is another thing that reminds me (as if I need it) that gays and straights aren't that different after all. not really, not down deep where it matters.

[optom3]

I just realized something...and it is so surprizing to me to have an epiphany about this movie after all this time, and after so many viewings. For a long time I have expressed my surprise (and chagrin) that my SON and I share the same taste in men, dark, affectionate, self confident, tall, good sense of humor, etc...

I just realized that in the FNIT, Jack imitates what my husband does when he wants to have sex.....when I am asleep or drifting off and he wants to 'test the water' he will send one hand over as a scout to see if I will welcome or reject it...Jack takes Ennis's hand and pulls it over to 'test the water'!!

It is another thing that reminds me (as if I need it) that gays and straights aren't that different after all. not really, not down deep where it matters.

I thought BBM had revealed everything to me by now. What you say about your husband is exactly what mine does !!!  We are none of us that different.

[Mandy21]

Gabreya, thank you for starting this one.  Reading it now for the first time, it seems a lot of folks have something to get off their chests, so to speak, about these scenes.

To try to stay on topic, I, as a mostly-straight (I've kissed a couple girls myself, Fiona:), and it was lovely) woman, was gigantically turned on by both sex scenes.  Number 1, helllllooooo, it was Heath and Jake, for goodness' sake, and number 2, it was finally the culmination of what we, as viewers, knew would be the outcome (no pun intended, sorry), but that they, as Ennis and Jack, weren't sure would actually happen.  So the intrigue and mystery and waiting only added to the excitement of that first night.  Honestly, I didn't think it would be as quick as it was, but I'm guessing that's something the censors controlled, rather than truly reflecting reality between two men.  But then again, I've never in real life, seen two men making love for the first time, so what do I know?

I think everyone has certain sexual preferences, for lots of reasons.  Maybe based on what they've seen in the movies as they were growing up, or seen in real life, or something a lover turned them on to, or any number of other things.  I've never in my life judged two people who wanted to be together.  And if there's love involved, as opposed to just like or lust, then all the better.

It is unfortunate for men in this society, that they don't get the approval and/or opportunity, to express their affection or sadness or other emotions with men.  But women get to, without a second glance.  This has always bothered me, that old pat-two-or-three-times-hard-on-the-back hug thing that men do.  I think that's part of why I like BBM so much.  Ennis and Jack, they never did that.  Every time, it was either all or nothing between them, and when I say that, I mean, it started as a look, several looks actually, and a handshake.  Every reunion thereafter, including their final moments together (ouch!), was marked with the most giant of hugs and happiness and love oozing out of both of them.  I think they set an example that all men should see.  It's okay to express your emotions, not just to the women in your life, but to every person in your life.

And I agree with another thing on this thread.  Whenever I had a nightmare as a child and as a teenager back in the 80's, which was a lot, there was never a second's hesitation in crawling into bed between my mom and dad, and being comforted by both of them, back to slumber.  Was a simpler time then, I guess.  Sad to say.  I know I couldn't have made it through a lot of nights, without them there to assure me there'd be better dreams to come.  Some nights now, when I can't sleep, I drive over to my mom and dad's empty house, and crawl into that bed, somewhere in the crack, between the two pillows, where all my nightmares stopped...

[Katie77]

I agree with you Mandy about men showing affection to one another. If I see two men having a real strong lengthy hug, I get quite emotional, because it is such an outpouring of their feelings towards one another. Maybe because it only happens occassionally, when it does happen, it seems to be more sincere and spontaneous.

The hugs and holding between Jack and Ennis are so intense, you can hear the slaps on their jackets, see their bodies crushing into each other and feel the "cant get close enough" connection between the two of them.  Those grasping clutches, to me, had nothing to do with them being gay, but more to do with the fact that they competely adored and loved each other. It showed how comfortable they felt, attached to each other. Its like if they hold onto each other hard enough, nothing can separate them, and while they are attached, the rest of the world cant hurt them.

Regardless of the sex scenes, or whether a viewer of the movie approved of them or not, anyone with any feelings could not have ever doubted the intensity of their love while watching those bone crutching connections.

[Artiste]

Merci injest!

Your post is wow, Makes My Night happy !

You made me smile happily!

So, you compete with your son, concerning men your eye finds? Wow!

Au revoir,
hugs! So those Love Scenes by Ennis and Jack are too traditional ?? Even, if they capture your attention?

[LauraGigs]

[I just read the first 4 posts on this thread and want to reply already (then will read the other posts).  So please forgive me if I repeat something already said!]

Isn't it funny how Brokeback has been kind of a sexual (don't know the right word...) watershed or breakthrough for so many straight women?  God.  My experience definitely parallels a lot of yours that way.  I remember vaguely thinking (way back in HS or college) that seeing 2 guys making out might be a turn-on, but kind of put it out of my mind, probably like a lot of (nice) women.  Then we see this.

Now Brokeback — thanks to Ang Lee's precious sense of discretion — is maybe 1/50th as explicit as the girl/girl porn every other 13-year-old boy's probably whacked off to.  But on the other hand, it's off the charts on the romance scale.  I think Tent Scene 2 is probably the most loving romantic moment I've ever seen on film.  Ennis has been a shit to Jack all day, and he's so confused and scared.  But he knows he wants to be with Jack, and that's enough — even though once he's there, he's still completely lost.  Then Jack, — an embodiment of forgiveness and almost divine acceptance — gently shepherds Ennis through his fear.   
(It's interesting that between the two, Jack is the clumsier animal handler (getting frustrated with the sheep, thrown from the horse, etc). But he's the master handler of Ennis, who is the low-startle-point horse the first night, and the ultimate lost lamb the second... finally reaching safe shelter in Jack's arms.)

Getting back to all of us...  I have to say that it really angers me how women are on some level denied sexual recreation and release.  A reply to that might be, "Denied? How, exactly?"  And I can't specifically put my finger on a particular rule or whatever, but I hope you all know what I'm trying to say.  I mean, how many movies featuring lesbian lovemaking have been made for the entertainment of straight males?  Now how many movies featuring man-on-man have been made for us?  (Or any kind of sex, for that matter.)  It's just assumed that every guy from the age of 11 will be coming his brains out — zillions of times over his lifetime — and entire industries are devoted to helping entertain him along his way.  But us? 
Yes, there is erotica for women, but how much by comparison?  And how recently was that little cottage industry allowed to come out of its own closet?

I think that is part of the core of my empathy with Ennis and Jack.  Straight women have more in common with them than we might realize.

[retropian]

I find this an interesting topic. I recall an article in Vanity Fair Magazine that appeared about 10 years ago or so about the phenomenon of Slash Fiction. Until then, I'd never heard of it. The article explained it was about taking existing characters from literature and creating new scenarios for them that usually involved some man on man action. That Slash Fiction was produced primarily by women for the delectation of other women I thought was amazing! As a gay man, I enjoy it too!

I wonder that as gay people become accepted into the social landscape to the point that virtually no notice is taken (except by virulent homophobes)  that more women are now comfortable with imagining male-male sexual encounters in a way that wasn't possible in years past. In a way it is a closet that is opening for many women. Women who may have felt a little shame about it and kept it to themselves now have many outlets to write and read Fan and Slash fiction, or for that matter watch gay porn!

[Katie77]

What a well written and easy to undersand post, Laura. I love your use of metaphors comparing Jack with Ennis as if he were "shepherding" him and looking after him, and you are right, thats exactly what he does, and Ennis allows himself to be the novice in the arrangement, to be the shy and timid one, to be embraced into this new discovery of emotion.

Getting back to all of us...  I have to say that it really angers me how women are on some level denied sexual recreation and release.  A reply to that might be, "Denied? How, exactly?"  And I can't specifically put my finger on a particular rule or whatever, but I hope you all know what I'm trying to say.  I mean, how many movies featuring lesbian lovemaking have been made for the entertainment of straight males?  Now how many movies featuring man-on-man have been made for us?  (Or any kind of sex, for that matter.)  It's just assumed that every guy from the age of 11 will be coming his brains out — zillions of times over his lifetime — and entire industries are devoted to helping entertain him along his way.  But us? 
Yes, there is erotica for women, but how much by comparison?  And how recently was that little cottage industry allowed to come out of its own closet?

I think that is part of the core of my empathy with Ennis and Jack.  Straight women have more in common with them than we might realize.

As you guessed, many straight women might ask why you think we have been "denied".  

Speaking for myself, I dont think I was denied, because I had never gone looking for it, or wanted to go looking for it. Not because of any homophobia, but because I didnt ever think that it would be a turn on for me. If I wanted to get my "jollys" I was quite happy to do so, watching man/woman  or sometimes women/women.

Even when I went to see BBM, I realized that somewhere in the movie, it was going to be clear that these two blokes were in love, how they were going to portray it was a complete mystery to me. I thought maybe, the eye contact between them, or maybe a longer than usual hug, but never in my wildest dreams did I think it was going to be portrayed as in TS1 or TS2. So......in fact, the man/man sexual connection was virtually thrust on me, as no doubt it is on many others. I had no choice of whether I wanted to see it or not once I sat down in the theatre, and as I said in my first post, I found it embarrassing, maybe that was because I felt trapped into watching it, I dont know, all I could think of, was "thank god its dark in here". By the time TS2 came up on screen I was prepared for anything, so the shock value had gone, and I just allowed myself to enjoy the tenderness of it,

I laugh now at my initial reaction to TS1, especially now that I have seen the movie so many times I forget. Now, when I watch it, even though the sex is rough and tumble, I can feel a tenderness to it and a meaning to it.

Getting back to your comments about us being "denied", I still cant say that I am eager to watch any other man/man sexual act, but I must admit, that men kissing, embracing and outwardly showing affection to one another is something that I find very very romantic, and sensitive....and it turns me on in a sexual/romantic kind of way. Seeing two bare chested men, skin on skin, I find totally erotic, and because I have a "thing" for bare backs, to see a man touching or embracing another man's back, I find totally seductive.

But you know, as I write this, I have just realized too, that even when I saw man/woman or women/women, I was more than happy to see only the top half of their bodies too...so, in actual fact, I feel the same way viewing all sexual contact.

Then again, legs entwining is pretty much a turn on too....so I guess maybe YOU ARE RIGHT.....give us more.

[Artiste]

Merci  retropian !


You say:
         I wonder that as gay people become accepted into the social landscape to the point that virtually no notice is taken (except by virulent homophobes)   that more women are now comfortable with imagining male-male sexual encounters in a way that wasn't possible in years past. In a way it is a closet that is opening for many women. Women who may have felt a little shame about it and kept it to themselves now have many outlets to write and read Fan and Slash fiction, or for that matter watch gay porn!                 

......

 Retropian, I find that interesting in your post!

Maybe, you could make a thread of this subject?

Au revoir,
hugs!                 May Love Scenes between persons continue for us all... too!!

[optom3]

Gabreya, thank you for starting this one.  Reading it now for the first time, it seems a lot of folks have something to get off their chests, so to speak, about these scenes.

To try to stay on topic, I, as a mostly-straight (I've kissed a couple girls myself, Fiona:), and it was lovely) woman, was gigantically turned on by both sex scenes.  Number 1, helllllooooo, it was Heath and Jake, for goodness' sake, and number 2, it was finally the culmination of what we, as viewers, knew would be the outcome (no pun intended, sorry), but that they, as Ennis and Jack, weren't sure would actually happen.  So the intrigue and mystery and waiting only added to the excitement of that first night.  Honestly, I didn't think it would be as quick as it was, but I'm guessing that's something the censors controlled, rather than truly reflecting reality between two men.  But then again, I've never in real life, seen two men making love for the first time, so what do I know?

I think everyone has certain sexual preferences, for lots of reasons.  Maybe based on what they've seen in the movies as they were growing up, or seen in real life, or something a lover turned them on to, or any number of other things.  I've never in my life judged two people who wanted to be together.  And if there's love involved, as opposed to just like or lust, then all the better.

It is unfortunate for men in this society, that they don't get the approval and/or opportunity, to express their affection or sadness or other emotions with men.  But women get to, without a second glance.  This has always bothered me, that old pat-two-or-three-times-hard-on-the-back hug thing that men do.  I think that's part of why I like BBM so much.  Ennis and Jack, they never did that.  Every time, it was either all or nothing between them, and when I say that, I mean, it started as a look, several looks actually, and a handshake.  Every reunion thereafter, including their final moments together (ouch!), was marked with the most giant of hugs and happiness and love oozing out of both of them.  I think they set an example that all men should see.  It's okay to express your emotions, not just to the women in your life, but to every person in your life.

And I agree with another thing on this thread.  Whenever I had a nightmare as a child and as a teenager back in the 80's, which was a lot, there was never a second's hesitation in crawling into bed between my mom and dad, and being comforted by both of them, back to slumber.  Was a simpler time then, I guess.  Sad to say.  I know I couldn't have made it through a lot of nights, without them there to assure me there'd be better dreams to come.  Some nights now, when I can't sleep, I drive over to my mom and dad's empty house, and crawl into that bed, somewhere in the crack, between the two pillows, where all my nightmares stopped...

I agree with pretty much all you say.The saddest thing is,most men will never know the peace,joy and comfort, of being able to really hug another man.Of being able to snuggle up and derive the very real comfort that such closeness brings.My husband has a very good friend,whose stepdaughter recently had something truly horrendous happen to her.The friend and his wife now live here, and the stepfather was obviously very distressed about the whole incident.Yet he could not, would not cry.Also him and my husband did that slap on the back thing.
In direct contrast, I flung my arms round my friend, the girls mother and we clung on for grim death, while she sobbed and I just held her.I even brushed her hair off her face as she was getting so hot and sticky.I love her as a really good friend.It was just one human reaching out to try and ease anothers pain.The 2 men of course,had over the years and because of society,no such release. As they left, the  woman was visibly calmer than her husband, who was obviously struggling to hold back the tears.I find that very sad.
In the same way I find it sad, that I have to tell my middle son, not to mention getting into bed with me when he is scared.
So to see Ennis and Jack hug so violently at the reunion scene,crushing to each other as if they are trying to crawl under the others skin is a refreshing change.Most of us know, what it feels like to hug someone so hard you never want to let them go.It is as if by so doing you can literally imprint their body onto yours.In BBM it is a love and sex thing.It works as well as it does, because we see sex and romance.Even the last trip where we see a glimpse of Ennis wth his arm round Jack in the tent.Both fast asleep.
I am so glad to ba a woman and to be able to derive comfort and affection from both sexes, how much do men miss out on? I hope one day that it will be just as natural for men to hug as women.
Heath had it so right when commenting on the scenes he said, it's just another human being.That I think is why all we see is so believable.

[Mandy21]

So to see Ennis and Jack hug so violently at the reunion scene,crushing to each other as if they are trying to crawl under the others skin is a refreshing change.Most of us know, what it feels like to hug someone so hard you never want to let them go.It is as if by so doing you can literally imprint their body onto yours.

Fiona, I really love the way you worded that -- "imprint their body onto yours".  It's funny, I've had lots of discussions with men about hugs.  Did you know that most men actually have separate types of hugs for different types of people?  I had never known this before, but got into a discussion several years ago with a couple straight male friends, and one of them started talking, and the other one, I could see from his eyes, knew exactly what the first guy was talking about.  And these were two gorgeous, sexy guys.  I wish I would have had a recorder of some kind, cause I don't remember exactly every type of hug they described.  There are, apparently, hugs where you slap a man on the back, hugs where you tap a woman on the back, hugs where you rub a woman on the back, hugs where you almost touch pelvises with a woman, hugs where you press your pelvis against a woman, hugs where you sidle up next to and tease a woman, hugs where you have an erection accidentally and don't touch pelvises cause you don't want her to notice, hugs where you want to get away quickly, hugs where you want to stay forever, the list just went on and on.  And guys, some guys at least, apparently have all these different kinds of hugs established in their protocol.  Like I said, I'd never though much about hugs before, I've always been a big hugger.  But ever after that conversation, I think about every hug I give and what it might be saying to the other person.  To me, hugs are instinctual at the moment they happen.  But I found it hilarious that men might be thinking about it differently.

[optom3]

Fiona, I really love the way you worded that -- "imprint their body onto yours".  It's funny, I've had lots of discussions with men about hugs.  Did you know that most men actually have separate types of hugs for different types of people?  I had never known this before, but got into a discussion several years ago with a couple straight male friends, and one of them started talking, and the other one, I could see from his eyes, knew exactly what the first guy was talking about.  And these were two gorgeous, sexy guys.  I wish I would have had a recorder of some kind, cause I don't remember exactly every type of hug they described.  There are, apparently, hugs where you slap a man on the back, hugs where you tap a woman on the back, hugs where you rub a woman on the back, hugs where you almost touch pelvises with a woman, hugs where you press your pelvis against a woman, hugs where you sidle up next to and tease a woman, hugs where you have an erection accidentally and don't touch pelvises cause you don't want her to notice, hugs where you want to get away quickly, hugs where you want to stay forever, the list just went on and on.  And guys, some guys at least, apparently have all these different kinds of hugs established in their protocol.  Like I said, I'd never though much about hugs before, I've always been a big hugger.  But ever after that conversation, I think about every hug I give and what it might be saying to the other person.  To me, hugs are instinctual at the moment they happen.  But I found it hilarious that men might be thinking about it differently.

That makes me laugh so much.God bless them,they even have to analyse and tabulate their hugs. What happened to spontaneity. I am going to watch my husband now !!!
I have always been big on hugs,in fact if I don't think I have had my daily quota from the kids I ask for more.

The idea of standing there and thinking.O.K so this is wifes best friend, have to hug her,need to make it look sincere, don't want it to last too long though, just in case John boy downstairs gets any ideas,but can't just be a quick one as that will look insincere,on the other hand,husband is standing by watching,so going to have to calculate this one very carefully.Also she has put some weight on recently, will my arms go round her ? What if they don't she'll then think ,I think she's put weight on and is getting fat.

Right got it, 3.25 seconds, no lower body contact , and 2 cheek kisses,3 is just too european.Think that should do nicely. But oh no,what about the kisses,air kiss will never do,way too Hollywood,can't linger too long though as wife and husband will start to get suspicious,so maybe no kisses, but then what if they all think that's a double bluff, to put them off the scent.
Oh sod it,no hugs or kisses, I'm off to get another beer !!!!

[Mandy21]

You made me laugh too, Fiona.  THAT is exactly what they do, I swear to you.  After that conversation with those guys, I would ask every new guy friend I meet, and they would all concur.  ASK your husband, and tell him to be honest.  I don't know ANY girls/women that do this, but men seem to think a hug is one of the most important analytical events in history.  It's ridiculous!

Just pay attention from now on.  You'll find it fascinating.

[optom3]

You made me laugh too, Fiona.  THAT is exactly what they do, I swear to you.  After that conversation with those guys, I would ask every new guy friend I meet, and they would all concur.  ASK your husband, and tell him to be honest.  I don't know ANY girls/women that do this, but men seem to think a hug is one of the most important analytical events in history.  It's ridiculous!

Just pay attention from now on.  You'll find it fascinating.

Patience not being my middle name,I have just got off the phone with my husband.I am still laughing.There are whole sub sections too, such as it becomes  even more complicated if the woman is very attractive, or the reverse.
Also did you know that they look at their partner,
 to see if their hug is going on too long and also if there is any sign of arousal in either party !!!!

I am never going to be able to hug anyone in the presence of my husband again or watch him,as I am just going to double up laughing. Which I suspect the involved parties might find rather offensive.!!
I just can't stop giggling now,I keep thinking I have got myself under contol when another chuckle bursts forth.

The absoloute worst situation of all though is, when in younger years, the mother of your partner is quite attractive.Here I am ,worried as the 20 year old son of one of our friends is really attractive and my husband is worrying about hugging the mother.Too funny. I am so glad I am a female.Now I have to stop as I have completely derailed the topic and I am going to get a smack soon.!!!

[Mandy21]

You've got me giggling with your giggling and your impatience.  How cute that you called your husband to confirm.  I'm sure you'll have even more interesting conversations in person when he gets home tonight.

DIDN'T I TELL YOU???  It's hysterical, what men are thinking, of all the texts and subtexts and hidden meanings.  Yeah, I didn't even go into all the different ways they think about hugging when someone is just a friend vs. a girlfriend vs. a wife vs. a mistress vs. a family member, blah blah blah.  It's unbelievable....  Where in the heck did they learn all this?  Was this some male detention thing, that the girls weren't invited to?  I don't know.

I just know it's true.  And I've never had a single hug since then from a man, that I didn't think about that enlightening conversation.

Don't think at all when I'm hugging a girlfriend, or female family member.  Just feels genuine...

Yes, you're right.  We've sort of derailed this topic. 

Right, back on track now, girl!

[Katie77]

Oh no....dont stop......HUGS ARE WONDERFUL.

I too, am a hugger, and I have found these posts so interesting and in some ways telling me what I have subconciously noticed but never been able to explain or thought to explain before.

Its funny how Fiona puts it, and I too am sitting here giggling, because Ive seen it all, felt it all and for the first time its all been put into context.

One of you should start a thread on HUGS.....using some of the posts here to start it off. Im sure you will get some interesting responses.

[optom3]

Well here's something interesting.My oldest son,who is now as you all know very stable and well, and I were talking about this subject.Until he became very ill he had always been a very tactile person.Then it all stopped and now I notice if I pick him up from friends houses, he will quite often,give the guys a hug.
I asked him about it tonight and he was just like sure,why not he's my mate.He hugs his new friend who is gay,and I asked him about that, his reply,look mum,he hasn't got a boyfriend, he doesn't get many hugs,what's the problem,I like him,people can make of it wht they want.(way to go son)

My younger son who is 11 still hugs me at the bus stop,which his friends all find odd.Hecould not care less.
So I wonder if it is partly to do with how you are brought up.I have always been very tactile with my kids.They used to get masages when they were babies.They still like them now.
I also do a sort of reflexology on their feet with lavender oil if they are a bit stressed,It is not the real McCoy, more a foot rub.My middle son goes wild for it.I give them all head massages.Even my oldest these days will sometimes come and sit and have his neck and shoulders rubbed.
He will also catch me by surprise in the kitchen and ask for a hug.The other day he said we don't do this often enough do we. !!!!! Jaw drop.
Part of it I know is this new gay friend who I overheard telling him,mums are the best,never hurt your mum.My heart turned to mush!!

The rest of it for men, I am sure, is how your parents act around you when you are a young boy.My family wre never demonstrative, until my father suddenly started when I was about 30.My brother is very awqward with hugs, he tries to push away.I have always loved hugs so I think, after much consideration,it is almost an inate thing in girls, as they are not censored for it.For boys I believe it is what they see growing up.
When we left to come here,I remember saying to my husband, when you say goodbye to your mum, for heavens sake hug her.She is going to be so upset.He did bless him, and the look in her eye was beyond price.

I don't go round hugging trees, but I do love to hug my family and for that matter my animals.The amount of peace and general well being that can be derived from a hug is immeasurable.You feel warm,secure and safe.Maybe it even dates back to the warmth and security of the womb.

So back to BBM, hugs are  one of the reasons I love the film. The reunion scene,squeeze the bones hug.I love the snuggly dozy embrace hug, and I love the simplicity of just knowing you're there  and for the moment you're mine, protective hug in the very last tent scene, where Ennis even in sleep has his arm round Jack.The last hug after the, you been to Mexico scene, is heart rending,it is so desperate.They hug just as hard as in the reunion scene,but it is clinging onto the remains for dear life sort of hug.Ending in the hugging of the lost love, as potrayed by Ennis hugging the 2 shirts so tightly and lovingly to his chest.

We have a real relationship, where hot raw sex,tender explorative sex and real affection are demonstrated.The hugs are fundamental, as they almost chart the progress of the love.

The film therefore touches on all my physcal emotions,from arousal, through discovery and love, to desperation and the almost palpable sense, that after the Mexico scene,it is all going to go horribly wrong.

[Artiste]

And, that reminds me, to think now how many hugs there are in those Love Scenes, between Ennis and Jack?

[optom3]

And, that reminds me, to think now how many hugs there are in those Love Scenes, between Ennis and Jack?

Not enough !!!

[Artiste]

Merci optom !

Many of us, like you and I, might think that there were not enough hugs between Ennis and Jack !!

However, this Brokeback Mountain movie, might be one which broke records, maybe, for a male hugging another male ?

Especially for mutual male hugging ??


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

On my thread about the movie Days of Wine and Roses, 1962, I just added:
        There is nothing more precious than a human mind... and a hug given to another person and/or received gladly ! ?          - Those are my words!

That is my expression, and that is very important too for you, in this Brokeback Mountain movie ?

[Gabreya]

OH, IT FEELS SO GOOD TO SEE PEOPLE HERE DISCUSSING THEIR IDEAS AND INTERPRETATIONS.

And you're welcome, Mandy21, optom, Artiste, and everyone else.

Yes, I do agree with the whole expressions dealing with Ennis and Jack in both tent scenes. I think, despite that both scenes are extremely different on the intimacy situation, those scenes how the growing attraction had finally taken center stage. It was clear that they both liked eachother but was afraid to admit it to eachother. They didn't have the words to say it or describe it. They couldn't just tell eachother that they like eachother as in a crush-like attraction. That wasn't very manly like on their part. Acting upon it was the other option. It was to show through action instead of words. And Jack, being the kind of edgy, goofball, risktaker he is, had made the move on Ennis. Ennis, the shy, quiet, and a bit introverted guy, didn't know how to react to this and he was completely shocked. Btw, in my opinion, when Jack had reached over to have Ennis touch him, he was in a way telling him he was sexually attracted to him at that point. That, freaked Ennis out at first because he had no idea that Jack was 'FEELING' that way because him. I mean, he was feeling like that, too, but it was kept under control until Jack stepped in. Like some of the others were saying in the past, it became apparant to Ennis in the middle of the scene that Jack seriously wanted him badly. Yet, he couldn't deny to himself that he wanted Jack, as well. Jack was the one who started the initmacy that's happening and Ennis finally starts to get in on the act when he's overcome by raw passion.

The second one is just dealing with, "Okay. So, we've already made love last night and we don't know where this is going. So, I guess we should go ahead with it because we can't hide from it forever." And yes, it was very romantic and cute. It's the first time, they've kissed, tenderly. Now, when I first seen them kiss, I didn't think anything of it. I didn't have a problem with it. I actually found it adorable. And being a straight girl, I found it natural. Jack was basically telling him that he cared and was willing to welcome him right then and there.
Like I said in another thread I think, Ennis was "surrendering" himself to Jack because he felt like he wanted to feel his warmth around him after a day of guilt ridden feelings and confusion.
Plus, it's a reminder on how committed and brave both Heath and Jake were. Everytime I see that scene,(and forgive me if I'm going a bit off topic) I think how these two actors didn't complain or fuss about how they were gonna do their love scenes. They've went over it and discussed it with eachother. And I think a lot of trust had to do with it. Plus, not once have they said some bad things about eachother like some actors would do. It's amazing. Personally, I don't think there would've been any other two actors who would've done the same like they did. They're opposites just like Ennis and Jack, yet just like them, they worked out well. They display some of the best pair actors on screen I've ever seen.

And yes, hugging is wonderful. I love hugging. There's nothing wrong with two females hugging, two males hugging, or all in all. Hugging helps a lot.

[Artiste]

Merci Gabreya !

Your post is very interesting!

Since you say:    both (tent)   scenes are extremely different on the intimacy situation,              did you noticed the differences in hugging ??

The hugs are different ? That puzzled me  firstly! Does it to you too??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Gabreya]

Well, Artiste, what I meant by the intimacy being different from each of the two tent scenes was that that one was focusing on the exploding, rising passion these two held in for so long while the other was all about finding love and comforting.

I think that the hugging isn't really that different. Maybe different on the levels of intimacy but it means affection. Oh and I agree with the person here that said that there weren't enough hugging between the two of them in this movie. But, that's all right.

Sorry if I confused you on the passiong part.

[Artiste]

Merci Gabreya !

Thanks for your post !

I agree with you too that not enough hugs are between them... yet !

We sure like them hugs between Ennis and Jack !!

What do you think of the caresses ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Gabreya]

Oh, the caresses were just unbelievable! I love it when they caress eachother. Especially in TS2. That's where it was very mouth-watering! I could tell they both of their faces were very soft when it comes to the touching. I'd never seen two guys in a movie that loves to caress eachother a lot as they make out.
Again, Heath and Jake did an excellent job!

[Artiste]

Merci Gabreya!

I agree with you about those caresses!

Where, in which scenes, you think that could have been done too ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Gabreya]

I'd say probably the motel scene or the TS2. It's beyond peaches and cream.

[Gabreya]

I wonder what was going through Ennis and Jack's minds when they first made love. I know they were, or at least Ennis, was a bit scared.

[Katie77]

I wonder what was going through Ennis and Jack's minds when they first made love. I know they were, or at least Ennis, was a bit scared.

 ....Most probably what goes thru the minds of most people making love for the first time......

[injest]

....Most probably what goes thru the minds of most people making love for the first time......

care to expand on that, Dr. Ruth???




 

[Katie77]

I cant remember......it was so long ago......

[Gabreya]

 

Yeah. But, I bet it had something to do with angst and passion mixed together.

[Front-Ranger]

Merci Gabreya!

I agree with you about those caresses!

Where, in which scenes, you think that could have been done too ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Artiste, we miss you! Where ya been, Artiste??? You've been away for 10 whole days!!!

[Gabreya]

Artiste, we miss you! Where ya been, Artiste??? You've been away for 10 whole days!!!

I was wondering the same thing! It's good to have you here, Artiste!

[Gabreya]

Btw, who's Dr. Ruth?

[optom3]

....Most probably what goes thru the minds of most people making love for the first time......

It depends whether passion overtakes and it is "real" love in which case you think of nothing bar the moment.If it is just sex, the my mind goes along the lines of,which way covers most of my stretch marks, how can I stop my bust slipping sideways, and God I wish it was darker !!!!!

[Katie77]

It depends whether passion overtakes and it is "real" love in which case you think of nothing bar the moment.If it is just sex, the my mind goes along the lines of,which way covers most of my stretch marks, how can I stop my bust slipping sideways, and God I wish it was darker !!!!!

And...........Oh, I hope I dont get a cramp in my bloody leg........

[optom3]

And...........Oh, I hope I dont get a cramp in my bloody leg........

 

Not forgetting,hope he's not one of those Sting, tantric type, I can go for hours, Oh pleeeeease no. !!

[Katie77]

 

Not forgetting,hope he's not one of those Sting, tantric type, I can go for hours, Oh pleeeeease no. !!

mmmmmmmmm......been there........said that...........(Oh pleeeeease no!!).....I'd like to kill the bitch that said she enjoyed it for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever............

[Artiste]

I aim to enjoy again those love scenes between Ennis and Jack!!

[Front-Ranger]

 

Not forgetting,hope he's not one of those Sting, tantric type, I can go for hours, Oh pleeeeease no. !!

Who is this Sting tantric person? Can I meet him?!?!?

[Mandy21]

 

I was thinking the same thing, Lee.  What is WRONG with these other girls??

[Artiste]

Should have Lee directed a female to come in those tent scenes between Ennis and Jack?


May I dare ask...

au revoir,
hugs!

[Katie77]

Should have Lee directed a female to come in those tent scenes between Ennis and Jack?


May I dare ask...

au revoir,
hugs!

NO   !!!

[Artiste]

Why NO ?

[Katie77]

Why NO ?

Maybe, before I answer Why NO.....you could answer....WHY???

[Artiste]

OK!

Isn't Hollywood famous for sex scenes with females, even for a ménage-à-trois (a 3-some), or  at least many porno ones?


Isn't that a reason among others?

[Katie77]

I dont know why I am even continuing this conversation......but I will.

We are talking about Brokeback Mountain, where two men fall in love while sheepherding on Brokeback Mountain. The storyline does not include women up there with them, nor having sex with them up there.

Its like asking why Dorothy did not hump the tin man in the Wizard of Oz.......

[Artiste]

Congratulations Katie, that is a funny post you did!

However, females were NOT in Annie's sotry, right?

[Katie77]

Congratulations Katie, that is a funny post you did!

However, females were NOT in Annie's sotry, right?

RIGHT  !!!

[Artiste]

So, I wonder if it did occur to Lee to direct by placing a female into those tent scenes !!

As somehow, when Ennis's wife looks secretly at her husband kissing Jack, that is like her being in a tent scene ?

[Katie77]

So, I wonder if it did occur to Lee to direct by placing a female into those tent scenes !!

As somehow, when Ennis's wife looks secretly at her husband kissing Jack, that is like her being in a tent scene ?

And....how do you figure that?

And I dont think she was looking at them secretly....she was shocked....

[Artiste]

Sure, Ennis's wife was surprised, shocked, but also didn't she continue to look at both embrasing and/or kissing??

[Katie77]

Sure, Ennis's wife was surprised, shocked, but also didn't she continue to look at both embrasing and/or kissing??

I dont think she looked any longer than she needed to, or that she got any thrill out of watching it.

Its a bit like when you pass a car accident, you really dont want to see anything tragic, but you still look.

[Artiste]

Maybe, you are right.

But I thought that I felt or saw otherwise... that she looked longer !

I will pay more attention to that scene next time I see it!

Or is it different in the trailer ?

[Katie77]

Maybe she looked a litle longer, to make sure her eyes were not playing tricks on her.....Like she couldn't believe it at first, and had to make sure she was seeing what she thought she was seeing.......

You gotta admit, its not something that a wife sees her husband doing everyday.....

[Gabreya]

I think the sex between just Ennis and Jack stands well on its own. Besides, it's THEIR moment of intimacy together. And when the first time that happened, they sorta didn't know how to deal with it until they gotten used to the fact that they were in love with eachother.

[Front-Ranger]

Well, the movie did show Jack with a woman in the back of a Thunderbird, and Ennis with his wife (twice even). But somehow a certain je ne sais quois was missing...those scenes just don't leap out like TS1 and TS2 do, even though there was supposedly real-life chemistry between Heath and Michelle!

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger !

I like your post which makes me think again, since I had that thought before, that those two actors who did Ennis and Jack, were possibly infatuated or in love ??

Could that be ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Katie, you saying:
        You gotta admit, its not something that a wife sees her husband doing everyday.....             
..........

And, Katie, that makes me think that those days especially were more anti-gay?  What year did Ennis' wife see him kiss Jack?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Wonderful post Katie you did:

          Topic Summary
Posted on: Today at 03:22:09 AMPosted by: Katie77 
Insert Quote
I have just read thru the posts here, and Amanda, your observations are really brilliant, and reading how you explain it, makes it seem a very feasible possibility that the boys were being watched at other times than the scene we see Aguire with the binoculars. Next time I watch the film, I will look at it from that perspective, just to see if my opinion changes.

I agree with Chowhound that the distance the boys were from Aguire's trailer was probably too far for him to travel to make regular inspections. Considering that it seemed like a long enough trip for Ennis to go back to the bridge to get the food supplies.

I have always wondered why Aguire even went up to the camp to tell Jack about his uncle. In some ways, it seems very much out of character for someone like Aguire to take on such a trip for a compassionate reason. If it was Jack's father or mother maybe, but not just for his uncle. Even the fact that Jack's mother knew who to ring, with the news of the uncle in the first place is a bit of a mystery. My thought on Aguire, getting a phone call like that, would have him saying...."Well WTF do you want me to do, he could be anywhere up in those mountains, and Im not goin to find him".....

And what was the purpose anyway, did he think Jack would roll up his tent and say "I must go and sit with my sick uncle"....what would have happened to the sheep then?

The only reason I can see why AGuire did the trip up the mountain, was to maybe check on the boys, but I do think it was the first time that he did. I think the second time he went up, just to tell Jack his uncle was OK, definately was for the reason of checking out the boys, not for a sexual thrill,  but just to see if they were watching the sheep properly. Maybe even with the intention, that if he saw them rolling around on the ground again, he might have fired them, or told them to bring the sheep down.

I think we as the viewer were meant to feel anxiety that someone like Aguire had spotted them, and then we would worry about the consequences.

Just the same as when Alma opened the door, the same shock and anxiety and fear of their secret getting out.

It also showed us, that as much as they tried to do everything privately, and thought that they had never been caught, they had been, and Ennis in particular would have been mortified if he had known he had been seen. Jack, on the other hand, after the "stemming the rose" conversation with Aguire did know they had been spotted, but knew not to tell Ennis about it.

I think all of these scenes were to cause the viewer the same anxieties that Ennis was feeling. How many of us thought, "OMG Ennis would have a seizure if he knew Aguire saw them, or if he knew Alma saw them"......we were shocked when it happend, but then had to hope that Ennis would not find out, or he might then have finished the relationship with Jack once and for all.

I dont think Aguire was gay, or even a voyeur. I got the feeling that he was disgusted with what he saw, and tried to make Jack feel that way when he confronted him about it.