Author Topic: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts  (Read 23362 times)

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 03:20:41 pm »
I get goosebumps just reading this thread...


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Offline wayne1932

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 04:38:10 pm »
Mothers don't always know.  too much generalization can confuse the issue.  And then they may know and not what to acknowleddge what they know. 

Case in point.  I knew my son was gay before his mother did, and he was about 30 when this became apparent to her.  But there is a mitigating factor here.   I knew that I could have been as queer as a 3$ bill since I was 13, IF!!! I had met the right man under the right circumstances.  But in those days (I'm 75 YO) the right circumstances were very rare and the right man was as much in denial about what could be as I was.

If it aint broke DON"T fix it.   If ya can't fix it, ya gotta stand it. If ya can't stand it...........

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 11:16:59 pm »
Fiona, once again, you've given me goosebumps with your words and perceptions.  How do you do that to me so easily???  You really ought to write a book or something; I'd be first in line to buy it  ;)

There are some parts of BBM that no one could possibly sway my opinion on, and then there are parts like the scene with the shirts, where I've always waffled and wondered what it really meant.  I think it was huge that that was the first scene where the camera pans to the perspective of the object Ennis is about to find, looking out at Ennis, rather than honing in on the actors/action.  I knew right then that there was going to be a gigantic revelation.  And the more I read yours and other's words on this thread, I'm more convinced that that revelation came of how much Ennis was loved, and Jack was loved in return, comes full-circle, finally after 20 years, in the span of about two minutes.  Next time I watch it this week, I'll think of that scene from your eyes, thank you.

On a sidebar, I've read a lot of stuff about mother's intuitions and their innate protectiveness of their children.  Not being a mom, I wouldn't know.  Watching my poor mom being shuttled between the nursing home and the hospital lately, dying of 6 kinds of cancer -- I wish I could ask her what she knew about me that I never spoke out loud.  But maybe it's best I don't know, cause I haven't exactly been the least naughty of girls in my life.  Perhaps I should just let her rest, never knowing for sure....

You are so kind, thankyou for your lovely words.My main subjects were always science, but because I have always loved literature, I kept up with that as well.So many friends, to whom I write mails, ask why I don't write a book.I have written a few poems which are posted on Bettermost somewhere. Maybe on Hallmark, I can't remember.I do know that your words, lifted my spirits which have been saging a bit recently.

Offline Gabreya

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 11:17:38 pm »
The shirts will always symbolize love and togetherness. Always. And for the record, Jack's mom is probably one of the most sweetest people on movie screen, despite her role was small but relevant.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 12:05:36 am »
I am sure she did. I know I have found things in my son's room that are obviously private....you have to respect that privacy. Denial is a form of protection sometimes. Covers for things you can't/shouldn't talk about.

But she would have put two and two together..the shirts appeared after that summer. Ennis also appeared, in her son's conversation. I can't imagine Jack would have ever said a word bad about Ennis...so "like the horse thief that can't help flashing a glimpse of the bridle" his tone, his demeanor would have given him away to his mother.

agreed, I don't think that its any more complicated than that. Jack probably left the shirts in OMT's house, and his mother inquired about them, and she figured out that they had a deep significance that should be respected. Did Jack keep them hanging in the closet all of those years? Maybe not, maybe he kept them in a drawer. Hanging on a nail for 20 years, and the shirts would have deteriorated, as unwashed cloth will do over time.

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 01:03:50 am »
agreed, I don't think that its any more complicated than that. Jack probably left the shirts in OMT's house, and his mother inquired about them, and she figured out that they had a deep significance that should be respected. Did Jack keep them hanging in the closet all of those years? Maybe not, maybe he kept them in a drawer. Hanging on a nail for 20 years, and the shirts would have deteriorated, as unwashed cloth will do over time.

What srikes me quite forcefully, is that the two shirts remain together,in perpuity.Initially they represent Jacks unfailing optimism in the endurance of love.In the end they represent Ennis final acceptance of enduring love.It destroys me every time that the shirts are together, entwined with each other,in a way Jack and Ennis never were.
Did Jack when he was on a visit, breathe in their scent,reliving memories.The shirts would gradually lose their scent,little by little each separate olfactory reminder would have slipped away, just as Jacks hopes and dreams slowly slipped away.
Scent is so important to us.How many times do we notice a particular perfume or after shave, only to be so shocked when the person wearing it, is not whom we associate it with.
It seems no coincidence that one of the things Ennis does, is to inhale deeply of the shirts,there is no scent, which is in sharp contarst to the reunion scene, where in the S.S Ennis is keenly aware of Jacks' scent.


Offline Mandy21

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 01:16:06 am »
Okay, Fiona, you're officially freaking me out now.  I was just discussing today with my new boyfriend as of Saturday, who's loved me and waited patiently for me for almost 6 years now, about scent.  I wear something called Little Black Dress, it's from Avon, discontinued, but thank goodness to E-Bay, I'm stocked for life with shower gel, lotion, perfume, powder, everything.  It's the finest smell I've ever smelled, and completely indicative of me.  I'm not a big fan of scent on a person unless it really, really suits them.  And this one does, me.  Anyway, I emailed my boyfriend earlier today to ask if he'd liked it on me Saturday and Sunday, and his answer was:

Stop worrying about what *I* like...if you like it,
that's good enough for me.

But, yes, I did like it.


He's a good man.  It's about time I let myself be in love again.  Anyway, I just thought it was a very weird coincidence at midnight my time, 1 am yours, that you changed the topic to scent, and how personal it is.

That's all.  G'night.
Dawn is coming,
Open your eyes...

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 12:41:15 pm »
Okay, Fiona, you're officially freaking me out now.  I was just discussing today with my new boyfriend as of Saturday, who's loved me and waited patiently for me for almost 6 years now, about scent.  I wear something called Little Black Dress, it's from Avon, discontinued, but thank goodness to E-Bay, I'm stocked for life with shower gel, lotion, perfume, powder, everything.  It's the finest smell I've ever smelled, and completely indicative of me.  I'm not a big fan of scent on a person unless it really, really suits them.  And this one does, me.  Anyway, I emailed my boyfriend earlier today to ask if he'd liked it on me Saturday and Sunday, and his answer was:

Stop worrying about what *I* like...if you like it,
that's good enough for me.

But, yes, I did like it.


He's a good man.  It's about time I let myself be in love again.  Anyway, I just thought it was a very weird coincidence at midnight my time, 1 am yours, that you changed the topic to scent, and how personal it is.

That's all.  G'night.

No such thing as coincidence !!!
My mother bought my husband an aftershave a few years ago, that for me can only be worn by one person. I nearly freaked when I saw the bottle.It was just wrong.I had to bite my tongue,and wait for it to be empty.
Equally I am known for a very old Lancome fragrance called magie noire.I know no one else who wears it. My mother will always be Hermes, rue de can't remember the rest of the name but instantly know the smell.All my children will be Johnsons baby talc.My husband is creed.
For someone else to be wearing a fragrance that you associate so strongly with just one person,is wrong.It never ceases to throw me off balance, completely upsetting my equilibrium.
It is just like new paint means Xmas for me, as my father always repainted the sitting room just before Xmas. !!!
Hmm maybe I should start a thread on fragrances and associations.

Offline Mandy21

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2008, 01:45:27 pm »
Yes, you should start a new thread about that.  We can talk about all the scents that Jack and Ennis would have smelled during their times together, as well as other Brokies' associations with certain scents.  I truly believe it's the most important of the senses that draws people together or pushes them apart.  Will you put the thread under your Rantings or somewhere else, so I know where to find it and add my thoughts?
Dawn is coming,
Open your eyes...

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: TOTW 23/08: Jack, his mother and The Shirts
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2008, 01:55:17 pm »
Quote
Also, it is clear during Ennis's visit that she knows who Ennis is and what he meant to Jack. She loves him because her son loved him. She loves him because he was the One who loved her son. I think they acknowledge each other as they put the shirts in the paper bag. Ennis came out to her.

I love this! It is so true. You could see so much in just a span pf a few seconds in thier eyes!
It's like everything passed between them at that point.
The whole storyis heartbreaking but this is one of the hardest scenes to witness.
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