Author Topic: Midnight Rant of a Beta  (Read 9804 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Midnight Rant of a Beta
« on: June 01, 2006, 12:52:33 am »
If you didn't know before, I'm what fanfic writers on the net call a 'beta'.  I proofread fanfic manuscripts for the writers.  I do slash predominantly in certain fandoms.

And tonight, while reading an almost final draft of an 81 page story....

The gods save me from young mothers who try to write male characters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A 25 year old male squire, days away from his knighting ceremony, does NOT break down and cry in the arms of his mentor knight over a bad dream and get so upset that he needs a nightlight left on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [pulls hair, jumps up and down ranting and raving like a mad woman]

[BIG sigh]

OK, I feel a little better now, back to work...

[shakes head]

Offline JennyC

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 02:00:30 am »
Del,

LOL
I can tell your frustration from that post :).  Good for you to be a beta reader.  Hats off to you.  If you ever write some fan fictions, let us know, and you bet we want to read it.

Offline RouxB

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 02:47:48 am »
D I feel your pain! I have taken up fan fic as my lastest BbM obsession and I want to scratch my eyes out when I read some of the stuff that has been done to Ennis (particularly) and Jack. I tip my black cowboy hat to you.

 O0

p.s. my sister lives in Seville. I pass through Madrid once or twice a year.

Heathen

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 07:05:30 am »

A 25 year old male squire, days away from his knighting ceremony, does NOT break down and cry in the arms of his mentor knight over a bad dream and get so upset that he needs a nightlight left on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shakes head]

Sounds like you wade through some pretty awful stuff on a regular basis.  I often think some of the stuff that makes it into print is dreadful -- but I never really stopped to consider what may get screened out.

I can't imagine reading that in a story without doing a "spit-take."
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 08:42:28 am »
Lemme guess - does this particular work of fanfic stem from "A Knight's Tale"?   ::)

And just ask Leslie and Diane (DeeDee) - this here not-so-young mother can write male characters (one in particular) with the best of 'em.  ;)
No more beans!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 09:15:14 am »
Oh, Lord, Del. I hope the rest of the story wasn't that bad?

Sheesh, 81 pages? Was that all one story, or chapters? Yikes, and I worry when my own little efforts go over 10 "pages" in Word because of my own short attention span when reading on line!
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 09:21:42 am »
Lemme guess - does this particular work of fanfic stem from "A Knight's Tale"?   ::)

Heh, I'll never tell. [whistles innocently]

Quote
And just ask Leslie and Diane (DeeDee) - this here not-so-young mother can write male characters (one in particular) with the best of 'em.  ;)

I have no doubt, but OMG, some writers let their personal lives flavor their writings just waaaay too much. 

bjblake, rouxb, jennyc,

Writing is an art and any work is always looked upon as a work in progress and I'm the queen of rewrites myself, which is probably why I never finish anything, and while I know it's hard to write male characters if you're a female and vice versa, but c'mon ladies!  THINK about men in real life at least.

This young mother who is writing this story is a lovely, but lazy writer.  You should see the trashy dead pig ears she gives me to beta that eventually turn into silk purses, but ye gods, it's a hair-pulling laughable mess when you first read it.

Jeff,

In this story, the two adult male characters can't stop smiling and blushing at each other, can't stop constantly addressing each other by name (a big pet peeve of mine), they hang their heads shyly, they bury their face in their hands, they gasp like porn stars and pretty much act like Erica Kane in 'All My Children', throwing themselves against walls and pounding on it with their fists (I kid you not).

*sigh*

81 pages and it's just one story.  The 3rd in a trilogy as a matter of fact.  That's not too bad actually.

My manuscripts run to hundreds of pages (mind you they're just fanfiction, not an attempt at 'War and Peace' and they remain unfinished).  Some stories just need a lot of room to be told.

Yes, you lovers of fanfiction don't know what you're missing when you only read the final product.

All by itself it's high class entertainment.  ;D

Offline littleguitar

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 12:08:11 pm »
Can I ask how you became a beta? I've never heard of this before and I think it's really interesting.  Is it just a hobby or something you actually do for money?
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 12:25:29 pm »
LOL...I can sense the frustration Del...

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 03:28:25 pm »
Quote
Jeff,

In this story, the two adult male characters can't stop smiling and blushing at each other, can't stop constantly addressing each other by name (a big pet peeve of mine), they hang their heads shyly, they bury their face in their hands, they gasp like porn stars and pretty much act like Erica Kane in 'All My Children', throwing themselves against walls and pounding on it with their fists (I kid you not).

Del, if you manage to turn that pig's ear into a silk purse, you should be a candidate for writers' and editors' secular sainthood!
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 05:41:29 pm »
Can I ask how you became a beta? I've never heard of this before and I think it's really interesting.  Is it just a hobby or something you actually do for money?

Hiya little,

It's just a hobby, fan fiction is by definition a copyright infringement, so everyone is very careful not to make it a money making venture.

But I am trying to get into regular writing/editing for a living.

I fell into beta by accident.  I was on a forum, reading the fanfics there, and I followed a few authors, liking their work and styles and offering comments and another fan was there who was trying to post her stuff and she liked my comments so much, thought they were insightful and very useful, so she asked to me beta her work and it just started from there via word of mouth.

The regular way I am told is that one joins a forum fanfiction listing and offers services as a beta.  Some writers are very picky about who betas their work, I'm sure, but others usually go begging for people to proofread their work.

It can be extremely time-consuming.  This one I'm currently working on for example.  Like I said, the author is talented, but lazy.  She'll send me her work - basically an outline of a manuscript with some sofa covers thrown on it - so I have to literally go line by line, offering up suggestions, expansions, descriptives, corrections and she'll respond with 'Oh I know, I just didn't want to bother with the details right then'.

Which meant I spent all my time doing something she should have done in the first place.  Literally at times, rewriting her story for her.

And then sometimes there are artistic differences.  Sometimes I think something won't fly and say so several times, but she will leave it in.  [shrug] 

Quote
Del, if you manage to turn that pig's ear into a silk purse, you should be a candidate for writers' and editors' secular sainthood!

Jeff,

What can I say?  I'm a miracle worker.  She might be able to pull this one out of her @ss, but IMO this last story is pretty crappy in concept.  If you ever saw the movie 'Throw Momma from the Train"?  Billy Crystal teaches a writing class and there is one writer there, an older woman, who writes a short story about submariners while knowing nothing about the subject.  Her characters just  'press a button' when torpedoes are launched or the submarine is manuevered, etc.

This manuscript is full of things like that.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 05:58:21 pm by delalluvia »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 09:06:37 am »
Del, do you ever feel conflicted between changing things to how you would do it, as compared to sticking with how the author would do it?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 08:18:48 pm »
Del, do you ever feel conflicted between changing things to how you would do it, as compared to sticking with how the author would do it?

Yes, but I always cave because it is THEIR story and not mine.  THEY will get the criticism when they finally post it, not me.

In the second story of this particular trilogy, I told the author that one of the plot-twists was not believable, but she went ahead with it anyway and sure enough, the critcism came in on how unbelievable it was.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 10:01:43 pm »
Yes, but I always cave because it is THEIR story and not mine.  THEY will get the criticism when they finally post it, not me.

In the second story of this particular trilogy, I told the author that one of the plot-twists was not believable, but she went ahead with it anyway and sure enough, the critcism came in on how unbelievable it was.

Yup, in the end, it is the author's story. I have done editing professionally, though not of fiction of any kind, and eventually you have to let go and let the author stand or fall--or hang--on the virtue of his or her own work.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2006, 12:44:33 am »
Yup, in the end, it is the author's story. I have done editing professionally, though not of fiction of any kind, and eventually you have to let go and let the author stand or fall--or hang--on the virtue of his or her own work.

Me too, Jeff, and I have found that letting go is the hardest part. (Which is why I never stuck with editing for long -- too much of a control freak, I guess.) It requires a delicate touch. You need to fix things that are outright wrong, but the writer's voice must somehow remain (even if you think that voice is $#$^%&@##).

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2006, 12:47:15 am »
Me too, Jeff, and I have found that letting go is the hardest part. (Which is why I never stuck with editing for long -- too much of a control freak, I guess.) It requires a delicate touch. You need to fix things that are outright wrong, but the writer's voice must somehow remain (even if you think that voice is $#$^%&@##).

Hmmm, Kat gives me hope that perhaps I can make a go out of being an editor.  I'm controlling, but not that much so.  If I think a story is lame-o, I will certainly be happy to let that sucker go.  You can only do so much.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 12:35:02 am »
Ye gods.  The story has completely turned to Swiss cheese.  Plot holes so big you could drive a truck through them:

Rebels attack the negotiating parties by simply walking into the same room - even though the stronghold supposedly has strict security and guards at every hallway entrance.
The rebels set off a bomb - that doesn't move anyone from the room, much less send them screaming and running.
The rebels escape/hide/stop for coffee - no one knows because once they set off a bomb and run down a hall, they are promptly forgotten.
One hero is supposedly undercover, but the two heroes talk openly of their individual missions.
One hero was specifically asked for because of secret fears of one ruler, but it's never explained what those are and the ruler doesn't even show up to say goodbye.
One hero has a mental breakdown and is poisoned - but he's quickly cured by someone who diagnosed his condition just by looking at him and his partner pretty much says, "Well, if you're feeling better we can go now"  With neither showing any desire whatsoever to find out who tried to poison him or why.
The two are on their way home, with no care whatsoever about how the rebels got through their security, what they wanted or why, where they went or if they were captured, who tried to murder one of them and are more concerned about the one hero's mental condition.
One hero is so concerned about his friend's mental health and injuries that he refuses to leave his side as he sleeps...until he decides he'd rather have a bath and clean clothes and decides his friend will be OK without him.

AAAARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

This 3rd part is just god-awful.  The really sad part is that she has been working on this story for 3 years.   :-\
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 01:09:07 am by delalluvia »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 01:14:51 am »
Um, not to say I told you so, Del, but I repeat that this is why I'm not an editor. There are people out there who are good at the job, so it must be possible.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 01:25:02 am »
Um, not to say I told you so, Del, but I repeat that this is why I'm not an editor. There are people out there who are good at the job, so it must be possible.

Yes, you did Kat, I must say.  But OMG, what a horrible story this is.  I've almost 10 full pages of corrections/suggestion/questions and I had to stop in the middle of one chapter to just line up all the plot holes.  The last little peculiar behavior made me LOL.

His beloved friend is injured, mentally, emotionally and physically.  He's been attacked, almost murdered, is mentally failing so one hero refuses to leave his bed side, resisting all suggestions he go to his room and rest.  He's fierce, resisting, loyal..until, hey, a bath and clean clothes sound good.  See ya bud, you'll be OK.  :laugh:

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 09:13:29 am »
Del, let me elaborate on something I said earlier: You get through this one and a) keep your sanity and b) don't murder the author, you're a candidate for secular sainthood.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline JennyC

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 06:42:08 pm »
I have to say that I am really intrigued to find out which fandom the story is based in.  Hmmm…sounds like "King Arthur", but do they have bomb at the time?

Don’t tell us.  Just leave more bread crumb for us to follow, and maybe one of these days we can crack the code ;D.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 07:48:48 pm »
I have to say that I am really intrigued to find out which fandom the story is based in.  Hmmm…sounds like "King Arthur", but do they have bomb at the time?

Don’t tell us.  Just leave more bread crumb for us to follow, and maybe one of these days we can crack the code ;D.


Never let a certain time period restrict you in your writing.  After all, in the movie 'The Two Towers' (from Lord of the Rings), Saruman most certainly came up with gunpowder and a bomb.  :)

Jeff

[BIG sigh]  I want to just stop, ship this garbage back to her and tell her a) to start over or b) that a two part story is perfectly fine, she doesn't have to make it a trilogy.  :P

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2006, 01:29:34 pm »
Oh my God....I wonder if this is why I never heard back from MY beta after that third story....

hey, at least I kept mine SHORT...a few paragraphs...and I have had nothing but good comments...but maybe I drove her nuts too!!!

Heh...no telling.   ;D  Just kidding, if you got good comments from your beta and the readers of your story didn't kill it with their reviews, I'm sure your writing was just fine.

I finished beta'ing the story by my writer's deadline and sent it back to her, dripping red, prefacing the document with a 'I hope you're not too discouraged..." comment.  She wrote back that it took her a day to get the courage to open up the document. 

A few days later she wrote to ask if I thought she should continue. 

I was pretty torn about answering her because this 3rd manuscript was pretty much garbage...but she's pulled some pretty bad stuff out before and I know I would be the one to beta it, so I told her the truth, pretty much suggested a compression of many plotlines and to go back to the drawing board.

She's a young mother and was depressed this story had taken her 3 years to write, but I reminded her that it took Heller 10 years to write his next novel after his first.

Don't think she found that encouraging.  :P
« Last Edit: July 08, 2006, 01:31:05 pm by delalluvia »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2006, 06:50:44 pm »
Fiction is HARD.

It sure is. If I, as a writer, don't believe what I write, no one else will, either.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2006, 01:12:58 pm »
So if you are not writing fanfic but just reg where would you find a beta??

Aren't they called "editors" elsewhere?

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PS WRANGLER, sweetie, dear heart, POST something somewhere!! you are at 666 not supposed to stop there it is unlucky!!

... Maybe that's why I didn't get laid last night. ... :o
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Midnight Rant of a Beta
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 03:01:39 pm »
Doggone it.  It took 5 years, but that girl tracked me down again and asked me to beta the latest rewrite of part 3 of her story.

*sigh*

She's STILL SUCH a lazy writer, leaving out major details that I have to comment on, lest she think I find it acceptable, so much so that it takes me the better part of 2 hours to do 4 chapters and she's sent me 23 chapters.

The latest ridiculousness - a detective is searching in the "country" for a missing girl.  He's riding a "scooter" and it takes him from sun-up to sun-down to get to the first settlement.  He asks locals about where a local boy was kidnapped.  They reply "not far" and then tell him it will take him the better part of a day to get there on his scooter.  Now this is a story in the future but I have to remind the writer that even if this future warrior detective was riding a Vespa scooter, in a day he would travel nearly 500 miles.  That's nowhere near "close" by any description and basically he would be looking for a child missing from New York City by driving to the state of Virginia.  ::)