BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!

[Phillip Dampier]

BBC World Book Club
Annie Proulx Talks About Her Life After The Shipping News,
Brokeback Mountain + Reader Questions

Please enjoy this 30 minute special edition of BBC World Book Club. 
Some stunning revelations from Annie Proulx about her feelings after BBM,
and her disdain for fan fiction reinterpretations of the story....



Keep this window open while listening to the program.  If you leave the page, the program will stop.

[louisev]

very revealing, Phillip.  I always was sure that the cease and desist letter I got came direct from Annie Proulx, and she confirmed it in so many words!  'They can't stand to have the ending the way it was so they rewrote it.'

[southendmd]

"Enjoy"?  Rather sad to hear, actually.

(Starts with talking about The Shipping News.  BBM discussion comes in around 18:00)

When asked if having written BBM was a blessing or a curse, she replies:  a curse, absolutely a curse.  I wish I'd never written the story...Endless botheration...

Here, she speaks of gay men who rewrite the story with a happy ending, rather than the other WSJ interview where she referred to straight men. 

[Phillip Dampier]

What are your thoughts about the program?  I noticed the interviewer spent a significant amount of time on The Shipping News and didn't spend as much time on Brokeback Mountain, something I am not sure meant they edited down a longer program to fit within time constraints, or if Proulx purposely didn't want to dwell too much on BBM. 

I came away from the program with mixed feelings and, frankly, a few concerns.

Her reaction to the fan fiction community was openly hostile and she seems offended by "gay men changing the ending" to have Jack and Ennis live happily ever after.  She also seems offended by the pop culture reinterpretation of the story and I was stunned by her declaration she wishes she never wrote the story.

While she seems to want to move on, there are obviously a lot of us still dwelling to one degree or another on the story and its personal impact on each of us.  My personal experience suggests there may actually be more heterosexual female fan fiction writers working with Brokeback Mountain then gay men, and I appreciate she may have concerns about others borrowing 'ownership' of the story concept for their own pieces, but I'm somewhat surprised she doesn't seem to understand what drives some of the fan fiction writers I've come to know.

I have to wonder if some authors don't realize the intent of most fan fiction writers is not to offend the original author but to actually celebrate and honor the original story.  With BBM in particular, the urgent desire to take a story that comes away with a devastating ending and change it or find some way to carry it forward is hardly surprising.  There are a lot of people, gay men in particular, that are already quite familiar with the rocky roads they travel in American society in coping with sexuality and relationships - even more so in the rural Wyoming she writes about.  I submit it's part of the human spirit to try and conquer adversity and find happiness, and while I'd argue that actual positive life change in one's own real life is far more effective than adjusting the lives of fictional characters, why be surprised to find so many writers recreating or extending a story that powerfully touched so many?  I don't personally find a need to do that, which is why I am not involved in fan fiction writing, but I can understand why others are.

Second, I am always surprised by the lack of graciousness some people have in accepting the praise and attention they receive from people whose lives were literally shaken, if not permanently changed, by their work.  Of course, I'm not in a position to really understand and relate to the attention Ms. Proulx has gotten, and maybe it has been far more than I can imagine, but why is she surprised as a published author and willing participant in the adaptation of her stories to the big screen that she has gotten lavish praise and attention for her work?  I can understand her frustration by the use and misuse of her Brokeback Mountain story by various players in the American culture war, where political posturing crashes headfirst into artistic venues, but this should not be a surprise.  Proulx has consistently been offended by the "gay cowboy" pop culture reference to her story, and she has made it a point to correct the record at every opportunity, which is valuable.  But Proulx also will have to understand that pop culture always boils down concepts and trashes nuance.  On some things, you just have to understand the reality and not get too bent out of shape about it.

I was raised to accept praise and good wishes with grace, and I think she'd do better doing the same.  I can also say from the early days of BetterMost, the biggest struggle I faced was just getting people to visit and see what our community was all about.  I've never forgotten just how grateful I am to the people who make this place what it is and who came here and encouraged me to keep going.  I hope Ms. Proulx can remember the universal challenge writers always face - getting noticed and finding enough readers to actually spend time with your work.  I hope every author remembers to cherish their readers.

I remain impressed with Annie Proulx's writing and I respect her choice to want to write the stories she chooses to write without being hassled or bothered.  I just hope she'll always be willing to accept and respect the praise coming from those whose lives have been touched by her hard work.  Attacking your biggest fans risks not getting too many new ones.

[louisev]

I have to agree with a lot of what you have said here, Phillip.  It's an unfortunate fact that just because someone is an insightful and even brilliant writer does not necessarily carry over into their being a nice or even a gracious person.  In fact, some writers, historically, have been so downright dysfunctional that they could barely tolerate society.

I studied literature in college and graduate school and there are many examples of this.  Annie Proulx probably falls in the middle of the spectrum.  There are people like Oscar Wilde who were socialites and had a wide circle of friends, entertained constantly and were sought out, and others like Sylvia Plath who was a paranoiac recluse who could barely stand anyone.  Some are overbearing and horribly self-absorbed, and I would have to say that Annie Proulx strikes me as being on the self-absorbed side, who prefers solitude and abhors the trappings and lack of privacy that come with the million seller book that made her a household name.  She was also said to have deeply loathed the film adaptation of 'The Shipping News' and tried to get her name dissociated from the film.  I saw the film, didn't really think it was that great, but to have an author become so vehement about a film adaptation really shows she has little to no respect for the flim genre or its artists, yet expects respect for her own non-derivative 'pure' art.  That is my opinion but that is one thing I gathered from the interview and other sources.

And the fact that she sends her lawyer after people who have written fan fiction is something few authors do.  Anne Rice does it, and I have had a similar impression about Anne Rice: self-absorbed, happy to have the money her fame brings her and yet deeply disdainful of her fans.  I have preferred to think that Proulx does care about how much 'Brokeback Mountain' means to those who were moved by the story and the film to have found their lives enriched and changed by it, in coming out, or in becoming empowered to make changes in their own lives, but I have to admit that I doubt that is so.  I think she cares about herself, her solitude, and her own life, and not really very much about the others she has affected with her art.  But that would be in keeping with the somewhat narcissistic personality type that shows up so often in the literary arts.

[optom3]

Oh my!!!
I found myself literally shouting at the computer.If you don't want the attention, do not allow your work to be turned into  a movie. It seems to have escaped her attention that many many more people will have read other of her works as a consequence of BBM the film,
So fan fiction may annoy her, but is she so coldhearted as to be, not even slightly moved by how many people's lives have been touched and in many ways vastly enhanced by BBM. I remember at the time of the press junkets, she was fullsome in her praise of the film, even saying Heath became Ennis.She seemed so genuinley pleased by the film and the reactions to it.
Perhaps if she wants no attention, then  she should just write for her own pleasure and no longer have her work published.After all in her own words she finds writing very easy.

When I think of all the endless interviews the cast had to do and yet I never felt they were anything ,other than moved by the impact of the film.
The radio interview has left a bitter taste in my mouth, probably brought on by the bile professed by Proulx, and the curse of BBM.

I will continue to love the film and probably the s.s. I will however give the rest of her works a very wide berth, heaven forbid that I would like any of them, or be affected or moved by them.

[retropian]

Well, Annie P. is pretty cantankerous, not that that's a bad thing. She admitted long ago that BBM was difficult for her to get out of her system after completing it. Jack and Ennis of all her characters really stuck with her. It may be a hassle now to be continuously reminded of BBM. I'm sure she'd like readers to pay attention to her current writings rather than returning to BBM. She reminds me a little of say, Leonard Nimoy who was frustrated for years about being typecast as his most famous and beloved character; Spock. It took him many many years to accept and come to terms with his "alter ego" Spock. Anne P. might be going through something similar. she may be worried that as an author she'll forever be associated with BBM and her other works will be ignored. But, lets face it, for now at least BBM is her Masterpiece. she'll have to create something to exceed or equal it, and that may not ever happen, and she knows it. I look forward to reading her new stuff soon.

[SFEnnisSF]

I saw this in the local gay rag and came here to post about it, and found this thread and it seems it's already being discussed.  (Why is this thread a sticky.  No one see's the sticky's at the top of the page IMO...) 

http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=9083
Article is at the bottom of the page


Brokeback Fans Torment Author Proulx

Brokeback Mountain author Annie Proulx has told The Wall Street Journal that her short story, which was made into the hit movie of the same name, has become a “source of constant irritation in my private life.””There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story,” she told the newspaper. “They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for ‘fixing’ the story. They certainly don’t get the message that if you can’t fix it you’ve got to stand it,” she said. “Most of these ‘fix-it’ tales have the character Ennis finding a husky boyfriend and living happily ever after, or discovering the character Jack is not really dead after all, or having the two men’s children meet and marry, etc., etc. ... Beneath every mangled rewrite is the unspoken assumption that because they are men they can write this story better than a woman can.”

[Marge_Innavera]

Well, Annie P. is pretty cantankerous, not that that's a bad thing. She admitted long ago that BBM was difficult for her to get out of her system after completing it. Jack and Ennis of all her characters really stuck with her. It may be a hassle now to be continuously reminded of BBM.  . .  But, lets face it, for now at least BBM is her Masterpiece. she'll have to create something to exceed or equal it, and that may not ever happen, and she knows it.

First, there are a number of discussions on this subject, and predictably, a writer making statements that arguably amount to spitting on one's fans has been referred to as "blunt", "not mincing words", "cantankerous" and "opinionated."  Unfortunately, none of that precludes the objects of the verbal spitting from saying exactly what they think -- hostile 'honesty' tends to produce responses in kind.

Second, some of these statements remind me of popular musicians of many years standing who go on tour and insist on playing only their new stuff.  That almost always ends badly.  The cantakerous, blunt and opinionated truth is that works of art, when they develop a significant following and a lot of fame, might be subject to legal copyright but in a sense the artist loses control of them.  They might not like that, and might react with peevish and spiteful remarks in public but that won't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I'd be curious to see what stories these purported gay male writers have sent her -- most of the fanfic I read is written by women.

Finally, I think I've posted this elsewhere in the forum, but if I ever get the opportunity to meet Annie Proulx or hear her speak, I'll feel that I have to keep being a Brokeback fan a deep-dark secret.  Ironic considering the subject matter.

[optom3]

Proulx may well be associated for some considerable time with BBM, maybe even for ever.I cannot see why that is such a problem for her.To have millions of people fall in love with your work, via either the story, the film or both, is a complement surely.She even admits she find writing easy.So not only is she presumably handsomely rewarded for doing something she loves, but also finds it as easy as hopping off a log.
Oh that the rest of us had such problems.
I realise that she would want to get her new work out there, but she is now in a much better position to do that, based on the success of BBM. I had never heard of her, until someone I knew gave me the story to read.
Her reaction is akin to Leonardo Da Vinci, if he were still alive, saying, I wish people would stop going on and on about the Mona Lisa.In fact do you know some charlatan art students, have had the temerity to study and copy it !!!!
Except of course he would not say it exactly that way, as he was Italian. !
I believe the phrase is, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.I still stick to my original thought though, as in, if you don't want attention, don't put yourself in the spotlight.
I suspect many an aspiring author would make  a pact with Faust to have that sort of notoriety, or even an acceptance letter from a publisher.Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Still, it's a free world she is entitled to express her view,I just wish it was not quite so scathing.It almost makes me feel silly for falling in love with the story and film so much.

[Phillip Dampier]

So fan fiction may annoy her, but is she so coldhearted as to be, not even slightly moved by how many people's lives have been touched and in many ways vastly enhanced by BBM. I remember at the time of the press junkets, she was fullsome in her praise of the film, even saying Heath became Ennis.She seemed so genuinley pleased by the film and the reactions to it.

I recall similar praise she had for the film.  Now I remember as well some friends who lived in Lander (not too far from Riverton) who moved back to Rochester who said the entire state of Wyoming was up in arms about Brokeback Mountain when it was published and released as a movie.  So I also have to wonder if at least some of the problem Proulx has comes from the locals who have hassled her since the movie was released.  A lot of anti-gay religious people have loudly protested her on a regular basis, and there have been some drive-by incidents by her home (and in many parts of Wyoming, the police simply don't respond to calls after 2am unless it is something very serious).  So the wanting to left alone MAY have more to do with her notoriety with the locals.

One other thing I am dwelling on today is just how she is getting this supposed avalanche of BBM rewrites "gay men" are sending her.  I presume the vast majority of her mail is coming in care of her agent or publisher, not being sent to her home.  Any agent or publisher can easily filter out the annoying mail and forward things she would find relevant or pertinent.  I am coming to question in my mind whether she is really spending her free time reading fan fiction stories sent to her.  More plausible is if her agent or reps told her people were doing this, and she anecdotally trashed the idea, but how does one get forced to endure fan fiction?  Is this something the warden of Gitmo needs to be told?

Frankly, I suspect most people are writing their stories and publishing them online, not purposefully trying to send them to her and her agent and publisher are the ones more up in arms about it.

When I started BetterMost, I found it frustrating that often people would dwell far more on the story instead of the message of the story and taking that energy felt from the impact and using it to provoke some positive changes in one's life.  That is what I tried to do.  But I've learned to relax about that because everyone's interpretation and "message" doesn't fit into my preconceived notion of what the story should mean.  The very sense of community built on the story is a positive change. 

Proulx doesn't like people changing the ending.  I don't like people only dwelling on every teeny tiny factoid about the film and forgetting about what the story says and the impact it has.  As soon as I realized why people do those kinds of things, and realized that positive change doesn't always come the way I might expect it to, I stopped getting bent out of shape about it.  I hope she can do the same.

And I frankly wouldn't have read one thing she wrote had it not been for Brokeback Mountain.  The Shipping News turned up here in one of the local movie art houses (where they show the obnoxiously dull independent Victorian love dramas set in the 19th century and impenetrable foreign films) and just from the previews, I dismissed it as boring and not worth my attention.  To me, a western story of any kind would be an anathema.  The very thought the first vacation I would take with John in 20 years of our relationship would be to fly to Calgary and spend 10 days in the Canadian Rockies would be the most ridiculous concept ever... until I spent time with BBM and got to meet so many people from here who shared my love for it.  So she changed my life forever with a short story.  That's near impossible for Mr. Cynical Me - so if she managed to have that kind of impact on me, it's no surprise she would stun a significant readership who saw her original story, and floor the entire world when that story became an amazingly successful film.

[ifyoucantfixit]

    Ms. Proulx could do well to take a page from J.K. Rowlings book and treat her dedicated followers and
fans with more respect and caring.  After all she has to live or die by her future fans and readers.  If she
allows her ego and attitude to alienate them, as this interview has shown, she will be at a difficult place in
her future to get people to care about her new stuff.  I personally am not that thrilled by her stories in
general.  I find them well executed and documented as to the surroundings.  However they are such
a great and depressing group of tales, as to almost preclude anyone that has a great deal of compassion to find them very hard to get thru.  I personally could not even finish her book of which BBM was one.  It was such
a bummer..  I find she has a gigantic ego and self centered personality.  Maybe she should as Marcia said,
just write for her own enjoyment and gratification.  She finds it so easily done,that it would surely be a
good pastime, that would not interfere with her private life and cause her any undue fame. 
   I found her snide remarks and humorous reference to the pilot crashing his plane to be the most disturbing of all.  I can understand the love of privacy, however to wish for someones death in order to achieve it is abhorrant to say the least. 

[Marge_Innavera]

I recall similar praise she had for the film.  Now I remember as well some friends who lived in Lander (not too far from Riverton) who moved back to Rochester who said the entire state of Wyoming was up in arms about Brokeback Mountain when it was published and released as a movie.  So I also have to wonder if at least some of the problem Proulx has comes from the locals who have hassled her since the movie was released.  A lot of anti-gay religious people have loudly protested her on a regular basis, and there have been some drive-by incidents by her home (and in many parts of Wyoming, the police simply don't respond to calls after 2am unless it is something very serious).  So the wanting to left alone MAY have more to do with her notoriety with the locals.

But that raises a question as to why she would then take it out on her fans, most of whom (in terms of population patterns alone) don't even live in Wyoming.

One other thing I am dwelling on today is just how she is getting this supposed avalanche of BBM rewrites "gay men" are sending her.  I presume the vast majority of her mail is coming in care of her agent or publisher, not being sent to her home.  Any agent or publisher can easily filter out the annoying mail and forward things she would find relevant or pertinent.  I am coming to question in my mind whether she is really spending her free time reading fan fiction stories sent to her.  More plausible is if her agent or reps told her people were doing this, and she anecdotally trashed the idea, but how does one get forced to endure fan fiction?  Is this something the warden of Gitmo needs to be told?

LOL, this statement is in the "why didn't I think of that?" category, and I don't recall seeing it posted in other discussions about this, but it raises a legit question.  How was she getting these pesky fanfics?  It's probably possible that some skillful hackers found it on the Internet but that then raises the question of why these fanfic authors/hackers were all gay men.  And where are all these gay male fanfic writers?  There are some whose stories I've read but from what little I knew of the authors they didn't seem likely to do that. On the other hand, it would make sense if these supposedly offensive fanfics have just been taken off a website -- the screen names of authors don't always give any hint as to gender or sexual orientation.

Second, I am always surprised by the lack of graciousness some people have in accepting the praise and attention they receive from people whose lives were literally shaken, if not permanently changed, by their work.  Of course, I'm not in a position to really understand and relate to the attention Ms. Proulx has gotten, and maybe it has been far more than I can imagine, but why is she surprised as a published author and willing participant in the adaptation of her stories to the big screen that she has gotten lavish praise and attention for her work?  I can understand her frustration by the use and misuse of her Brokeback Mountain story by various players in the American culture war, where political posturing crashes headfirst into artistic venues, but this should not be a surprise.  Proulx has consistently been offended by the "gay cowboy" pop culture reference to her story, and she has made it a point to correct the record at every opportunity, which is valuable.  But Proulx also will have to understand that pop culture always boils down concepts and trashes nuance.  On some things, you just have to understand the reality and not get too bent out of shape about it.

It is a fact, though, that few people enjoy fame; most of us would far rather be rich than famous.  Of course, the ideal thing would be to be fabulously rich during your lifetime, and world-famous about two days after you pass on.   

[Brown Eyes]

    Ms. Proulx could do well to take a page from J.K. Rowlings book and treat her dedicated followers and
fans with more respect and caring.  After all she has to live or die by her future fas and readers.  If she
allows her ego and attitude to alienate them, as this interview has shown, she will be at a difficult place in
her future to get people to care about her new stuff.  I personally am not that thrilled by her stories in
general.  I find them well executed and documented as to the surroundings.  However they are such
a great and depressing group of tales, as to almost preclude anyone that has a great deal of compassion to find them very hard to get thru.  I personally could not even finish her book of which BBM was one.  It was such
a bummer..  I find she has a gigantic ego and self centered personality.  Maybe she should as Marcia said,
just write for her own enjoyment and gratification.  She finds it so easily done,that it would surely be a
good pastime, that would not interfere with her private life and cause her any undue fame. 
   I found her snide remarks and humorous reference to the pilot crashing his plane to be the most disturbing of all.  I can understand the love of privacy, however to wish for someones death in order to achieve it is abhorrant to say the least. 

Janice, I agree with a lof of your sentiment here.  I often find myself unable to finish her stories and/or I find them amazingly bleak.  She's obviously a tremendously gifted writer.  And, BBM is brilliant not only for its characters and plot, etc., but also for her wonderful talent for description, dialogue and unique turns-of-phrase.  I certainly don't mean to imply that I don't recognize her gift for writing.  Basically, a lot of it is simply not to my personal taste (which is clearly very subjective).

I've read the Shipping News (a long time ago) and I recall I liked it.  But, like you, I still haven't even read all the stories in Close Range.  I bought Bad Dirt and Postcards sort of as a nod towards building a collection of relevant Brokie things, but I haven't read either of those yet either.

For me BBM is a unique circumstance in the context of almost anything (and also in the context of Proulx's other writing).

It saddens me that she feels this way about her story and about fans of BBM.  But, it really is true that a story/film with such huge popularity inevitably will take on a life of its own.  While surely she's entitled to her own opinions and reactions, her unhappiness with Brokies doesn't at all lessen my love for BBM (the film or story) and it obviously doesn't make me second guess the Brokie community either. 

[tamarack]

I'm going to try this once more. I just lost my whole post. (I hate it when that happens.) This one will be a lot shorter, to your benefit!

Thanks for posting this here, Phillip. I've been waiting for the weekend to listen to it.

I'm not hearing the same thing here that some of you are. If someone had written a letter or sent an email about the life-changing effect of the story I think we would have heard a different Annie, but that wasn't the point of the interview. Her "I wish I never wrote it" comment was a bit harsh (LOL) but the comment about the "cowboys" probably set her off a little bit. 

She lives out in the middle of nowhere for a reason; it isn't an act. This is who she is (at certain times on certain days). I'm not sure why she even does the interviews, to be honest.

At any rate, I'm not taking this as a personal affront to my affection for Jack and Ennis.

[BelAir]

First, there are a number of discussions on this subject, and predictably, a writer making statements that arguably amount to spitting on one's fans has been referred to as "blunt", "not mincing words", "cantankerous" and "opinionated."  Unfortunately, none of that precludes the objects of the verbal spitting from saying exactly what they think -- hostile 'honesty' tends to produce responses in kind.

Second, some of these statements remind me of popular musicians of many years standing who go on tour and insist on playing only their new stuff.  That almost always ends badly.  The cantakerous, blunt and opinionated truth is that works of art, when they develop a significant following and a lot of fame, might be subject to legal copyright but in a sense the artist loses control of them.  They might not like that, and might react with peevish and spiteful remarks in public but that won't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I'd be curious to see what stories these purported gay male writers have sent her -- most of the fanfic I read is written by women.

Finally, I think I've posted this elsewhere in the forum, but if I ever get the opportunity to meet Annie Proulx or hear her speak, I'll feel that I have to keep being a Brokeback fan a deep-dark secret.  Ironic considering the subject matter.

I was thinking maybe someone is just showing her copies of fanfic material.  i.e. she has no idea who is/isn't writing them, and is just assuming, noone is actually 'informing' her of much, just saying 'here, read this...' 

sometimes it can be hard to see beyond the own world you've created, if that makes any sense?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Thank you Phillip, for posting this interview. It was very moving hearing Proulx read her own words.

When I first heard of her recent comments about BBM I was not surprised. I had heard about the cease and desist letters. That she sees the attention directed at her because of this one story as a curse, well I bet it is. She describes herself as private and her experience with them happened long before the rest of us encountered these two ranch hands. She has written about the power they have in her "Getting Moovied" essay, and I don't presume to know her mind but I know a little bit about my own. In my mind they are cut of the same cloth as Holden Caufield, as Paul Bunyon, as Uncle Remus. A story so compelling it inters humanities psyche and its characters so compelling our minds find them useful in the stories we tell ourselves. Much of this, I think, comes from the movie and not the short story. She even admits this is often then case in said essay.

Proulx gave life to something very powerful, and with any act of creation there is a price to pay. This story has impacted her life in a way very different than our experience with it. How do you prepare for something like that? A private person who for years has scratched out a living writing technical articles, as anonymous as that ranch hand at the Mint Bar, and then one day your name is on the tongues of millions. I think she has done pretty good, I won't judge her. For better or worse she will always be known by the lowest common denominator as the author of "The Gay Cowboy Story". Type cast, with segments of the population passing various judgement upon her, never bothering, or even trying to read her other works. I would be resentful too. (One of the things I thought as the interview started was that they are stuck on those two, BBM and the Shipping News. I think me and Front Ranger are the only two people I know who have read Postcards and that is a shame. A damn shame.)

Bottom line: Annie Proulx is not Brokeback Mountain. Let be.

[injest]

nice post, Truman...well said.

[Br. Patrick]

After reading all of your comments, I decided NOT to listen to the entire Broadcast.  For me, Brokeback Mountain is a life changing FILM and how it came to be matters little.  As for fan-fiction, as long as we share it among ourselves, there shouldn't be any problem.  Jess' ending, read by Rodney Giles on Brokenback Mountain in Wyoming, gives the closure to me that I needed, bringing me the familiar BBM  feeling of gut-wrenching tears.  And really, it isn't Annie's story anymore..  We all have incorporated the lessons taught by the incredible film into our own lives.  I'm not done yet and I suspect many others aren't either.

Give her a few years as she watches the film turn into a genuine longterm Classic of American Cinema.  THEN ask her what she thinks.. if anyone cares.

br. p

For those who are unaware, BetterMost Sage Daniel's book is out and available at amazon.com.    "DREAMFILM Brokeback Mountain Explored" is a treasure~!  and note that it is dreamFILM not dreamShortStory...

http://www.amazon.com/Dreamfilm-Brokeback-Mountain-Daniel-Bates/dp/1425750001/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223302034&sr=8-1

[injest]

After reading all of your comments, I decided NOT to listen to the entire Broadcast.  For me, Brokeback Mountain is a life changing FILM and how it came to be matters little.  As for fan-fiction, as long as we share it among ourselves, there shouldn't be any problem.  Jess' ending, read by Rodney Giles on Brokenback Mountain in Wyoming, gives the closure to me that I needed, bringing me the familiar BBM  feeling of gut-wrenching tears.   And really, it isn't Annie's story anymore..  We all have incorporated the lessons taught by the incredible film into our own lives.  I'm not done yet and I suspect many others aren't either.

Give her a few years as she watches the film turn into a genuine longterm Classic of American Cinema.  THEN ask her what she thinks.. if anyone cares.

br. p

For those who are unaware, BetterMost Sage Daniel's book is out and available at amazon.com.    "DREAMFILM Brokeback Mountain Explored" is a treasure~!  and note that it is dreamFILM not dreamShortStory...

http://www.amazon.com/Dreamfilm-Brokeback-Mountain-Daniel-Bates/dp/1425750001/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223302034&sr=8-1

oh, THANK YOU, Brother....That means a lot to me for you to say that.

[Front-Ranger]

Hey, br. Patrick, thanks for reminding us about Daniel's book DreamFilm. I have it and have enjoyed reading it very much. I am not a poetry lover in general but I really like the poetry that is interspersed among the essays. And, Truman, thank you for mentioning Postcards. I happen to have it in my briefcase right now!! Postcards was actually the first work of Annie Proulx's that I ever read. I was laid up in the hospital at the time and if not, I might not have had the fortitude to finish it. Brutal as it is (the novel begins with a murder) there is something haunting about the book, and the characters have stayed with me for a long time. That book helped me understand my father whose character was molded during the Depression.

Truman is right about Annie's origins as a technical writer. If you look at the story as published in the New Yorker (11 years ago next Monday) there is a box on the second page with a sketch of Annie and a little information about her past. She started writing fiction for men's magazines (yes, really!) and adopted the pen name E. A. Proulx because she needed to disguise the fact that she is a woman. Brokeback Mountain and the book Close Range that it is a part of was her first work published as just "Annie Proulx." So, perhaps that has something to do with her irascibility on the occasion of her interview with the Wall Street Journal. She is required to do these interviews when her books are published and it is clear that it is not one of her favorite things to do. She had just received a particularly irritating letter and fan fiction manuscript from someone who wanted to correct things he thought she had gotten wrong in the story, because she is a woman.

Annie Proulx maintains correspondences with people and has been very gracious and nurturing. I have heard of several instances, and the few correspondences I've been involved in have always received very personal and thoughtful replies written in longhand. There are people who she corresponds with by letter and by phone, and when I have seen her in person, she has always been patient, friendly, and respectful, and she has never left an event I've attended until she has spoken with every person who wanted to talk with her.

One last thing, if you listen to her words, what really irritates her is the fan fiction writers demanding praise and feedback from her. Since she obviously does not need feedback herself it's really hard for her to be hounded by these needy people who feel like they deserve her undivided attention. Personally, I'd rather see her writing more stories!!

[Front-Ranger]

And I for one hope that she will share the other BBM stories with us. But that seems less and less likely.

What other BBM stories, friend?? Do tell more!!

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I might need to go back and listen to it again, but I rmemebr in that interview there is a plane flying over and correct me if I am wrong, she seems to want it to crash?

Bothersome beyond words. Bury the dead horse. Bring on the next story.

[magicmountain]

When you visit a good restaurant you enjoy the taste of the food and benefit from its nutrition. Why worry if the cook is having a hissy fit out back in the kitchen?

[MountainMan]

When you visit a good restaurant you enjoy the taste of the food and benefit from its nutrition. Why worry if the cook is having a hissy fit out back in the kitchen?

 

I've never thought that the fanfic "changes" the end of the story- that's kind of the point, right? that the fanfic is a kind of "alternate universe"? Anyway, that's kind of how I think about that sort of stuff.....I admit that when I first heard of it, especially slash, I thought it was kind of......disrespectful? (unintentionally of course) - either to the original actors/writers (be it Star Trek, HP, BBM, whatever). But, that ORIGINAL still exists; it's still out there in its original form and nothing else changes that. And honestly, I think of the fanfic as completely separate from - but perhaps also completely connected to???    - the "original."

At the same time, anything I've ever written (or thought about writing) would never"disrespect" (what I think Annie might say) the original story/characters/author/etc by "changing" the ending....but only because I've never really felt inspired to do so. I dunno....maybe I just kind of like the idea of fitting fanfic into the original plotline since it's like, "oh hey, this COULD have been part of the original." Then again, people who extend the story or "change" the ending are saying pretty much the same thing I guess.

So here's my two cents that I already said over in "Annie Annie Annie" where the interview was discussed:

"Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar are my intellectual property"

...yawn.

"beneath every mangled rewrite is the unspoken assumption that because they are men they can write this story better than a woman can"

Yawn, part II. I think that's an assumption on your part, Annie....

I think Annie Proulx DOES have a problem with ownership, afer all, why would she have had her publisher send cease and desist orders to little old fanfic writers like me and threaten to get CBS's lawyers after me?  Even though fan fiction falls in the large grey area of inellectual property law, I don't have the money to put where my mouth is so I obeyed the cease and desist order, and ultimately I am glad I wrote an original story instead of hanging it on Annie Proulx's coat rack. 

...exactly. It seems like she's more concerned with preserving her characters (her story and ending) than anything else - I mean, surely it's not about the money one way or the other......either she doesn't need/want it or she could profit from "collaborative" fanfic. The interview excerpts make her sound....well, not good. Arrogant, I guess. Although I do sympathize with what appears to be her desire to preserve the integrity of her original story.....and (even tho I THINK this has prob been discussed to death elsewhere) I can understand her labeling certain attempts (ahem, slash)  as "pornish".

(for the record, I'm not "anti-slash".)

I'm going to have to read some more of her work now (I can't remember how much of Close Range I read), because every interview I've come across makes her sound incredibly pretentious. I dunno; maybe we are (I am) just bouncing off the film too much.......I feel as if she gave us this beautiful story with these incredible characters but doesn't seem to give a damn about them. I wonder how she really feels about the movie, since she didn't do the screenplay.

From what I've come across, I can't figure out her background either; it's kind of a mystery. "Hard knocks" tho, I think not - more like upper class liberal arts major (but "be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"). Some details are there, but those don't really reveal much about her as a person.....I feel like I might understand her work and her better if I knew more than the info from a few interview quotes and wikipedia.

Aside from info from good ol' wikipedia here's a couple old (1997, 1999) interviews:

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/factfict/eapint.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/05/23/specials/proulx-home.html

and a biography - http://www.notablebiographies.com/Pe-Pu/Proulx-E-Annie.html

Cheers!
 

[Front-Ranger]

In order to begin commemorating the publication of this story 11 years ago, I listened to this interview. I found it very interesting although I didn't learn much that was new to me. It was so nice to hear Annie speaking from her home in Wyoming; she and the interviewer were sitting outside and you could occasionally hear a bird singing. She talked about her craft such as mentioning how she often writes the ending first before the rest of the story. She talks about The Shipping News for the first 17 minutes, about how she wanted to write a novel with a happy ending because people criticized her for writing "dark" works. However, the ending that she came up with she defines as "an absence of pain."

The format of the interview is probably not the best for Annie because she was answering questions that had been emailed or texted into the BBC. Several times she reacted negatively to these questions, and it was clear that some of the questioners had not even read the story. For instance, the first few paragraphs of the story (which Annie reads at about the 18 minute mark) made a point of stating that Ennis and Jack were poor kids, not glorified cowboys. But a questionnaire asked whether she was trying to tear down stereotypes by making them cowboys. She points out that she deliberately makes them herd sheep. But many people who haven't studied the West and history don't know that sheepmen and cowboys are like oil and water.

The comment about the plane came up just after Annie talked about having to sell her home in Newfoundland after tour directors started driving vans of tourists past her house and her privacy was destroyed. The interviewer mentioned that she definitely wouldn't have that problem in her new house in Wyoming. Oh, but she does still have that problem, since a nosy person in a private plane has a habit of flying over her house. If that plane should crash, she might feel kind of bad, she allowed. She is a very private person who likes quiet and aloneness, and the glare of noteriety is the botheration that she refers to.

There are many other things said in this interview and it's too bad that just a small part of it is keeping people from listening. I particularly like Annie's answer to the last question, which was "Why do you write?"

[retropian]

Reading thru the comments here, it occurred to me that part of the problem, is us. The Fans. we live in a celebrity culture where those who are our "heroes", in film, or theater or literature or music are expected to behave in certain ways. Ways that we the 'fans' feel are becoming to a person we admire, such as appearing to be gracious and grateful for fans adulation. At what point though does that adulation and attention become bothersome and intrusive? It must be subjective to each individual. In Annie Proulx case, writing is a very personal and private act conducted in solitude. That is probably true for most artists, painters, composers and writers. There are many artists in times past that behaved abominably towards others, but their creations transcended their limitations as human beings. This is how I view Annie Proulx. BBM the story is a singular work genius. It's a distillation of everything she has written. It is her penultimate work (at least so far! She may very well write something that eclipses BBM! I don't mean to imply she's reached her pinnacle.). That doesn't mean she is a perfect person. She is an imperfect human being who was able in some mysterious way to create a small story that had enormous reverberations. Reverberations that perhaps were and are beyond her wildest expectations and coping abilities. We should accept that and move on. I'm still looking forward to reading her new work.

[injest]

Reading thru the comments here, it occurred to me that part of the problem, is us. The Fans. we live in a celebrity culture where those who are our "heroes", in film, or theater or literature or music are expected to behave in certain ways. Ways that we the 'fans' feel are becoming to a person we admire, such as appearing to be gracious and grateful for fans adulation. At what point though does that adulation and attention become bothersome and intrusive? It must be subjective to each individual. In Annie Proulx case, writing is a very personal and private act conducted in solitude. That is probably true for most artists, painters, composers and writers. There are many artists in times past that behaved abominably towards others, but their creations transcended their limitations as human beings. This is how I view Annie Proulx. BBM the story is a singular work genius. It's a distillation of everything she has written. It is her penultimate work. That doesn't mean she is a perfect person. She is an imperfect human being who was able in some mysterious way to create a small story that had enormous reverberations. Reverberations that perhaps were and are beyond her wildest expectations and coping abilities. We should accept that and move on. I'm still looking forward to reading her new work.

I am reminded of an actor (cant remember his name but I am SURE that someone will rush in to tell it and correct my memory  ) but after recieving a lifetime honor made the comment that he was sorry he hadnt' died yet...kind of making the joke that how could you give a LIFETIME award to someone who was still producing...

Ms Proulx is still writing and creating....and we are telling her she will never be as good as she was when she wrote BBM and even then she didnt' do TOO good a job, since there are people that insist on rewriting it for her.

I would be angry too.

[Front-Ranger]

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Jess.

And maybe AP is trying to prime us for her most recent collection of work which is some of her darkest stuff yet.

[BelAir]

Thank you Phillip, for posting this interview. It was very moving hearing Proulx read her own words.

When I first heard of her recent comments about BBM I was not surprised. I had heard about the cease and desist letters. That she sees the attention directed at her because of this one story as a curse, well I bet it is. She describes herself as private and her experience with them happened long before the rest of us encountered these two ranch hands. She has written about the power they have in her "Getting Moovied" essay, and I don't presume to know her mind but I know a little bit about my own. In my mind they are cut of the same cloth as Holden Caufield, as Paul Bunyon, as Uncle Remus. A story so compelling it inters humanities psyche and its characters so compelling our minds find them useful in the stories we tell ourselves. Much of this, I think, comes from the movie and not the short story. She even admits this is often then case in said essay.

Proulx gave life to something very powerful, and with any act of creation there is a price to pay. This story has impacted her life in a way very different than our experience with it. How do you prepare for something like that? A private person who for years has scratched out a living writing technical articles, as anonymous as that ranch hand at the Mint Bar, and then one day your name is on the tongues of millions. I think she has done pretty good, I won't judge her. For better or worse she will always be known by the lowest common denominator as the author of "The Gay Cowboy Story". Type cast, with segments of the population passing various judgement upon her, never bothering, or even trying to read her other works. I would be resentful too. (One of the things I thought as the interview started was that they are stuck on those two, BBM and the Shipping News. I think me and Front Ranger are the only two people I know who have read Postcards and that is a shame. A damn shame.)

Bottom line: Annie Proulx is not Brokeback Mountain. Let be.

I read Postcards!!!!  (And I thought it was good, too.)

 

[Marge_Innavera]

When you visit a good restaurant you enjoy the taste of the food and benefit from its nutrition. Why worry if the cook is having a hissy fit out back in the kitchen?

It might cause a bit of pique if the cook is yelling that she wishes you weren't eating there.