Author Topic: Morning after  (Read 10105 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Morinig after
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2006, 08:57:41 am »
I certainly didn't mean to make a big deal over socks/no socks. I just happened to notice in the film that Ennis is wearing socks when he strips to "warsh" because Annie Proulx makes such a point in the story of Jack noticing that Ennis doesn't wear socks or underwear.

Personally, I can't imagine not wearing socks. Blisters, calluses. ... Unless, of course, Ennis hadn't worn socks in years, so this feet were like leather.

I can see how some might consider Jack's coat a continuity error, but it never occurred to me to see it that way. I guess it depends on what you "bring" to the film. My shoulders get cold quite easily. I always wear a t-shirt to sleep in cold weather. It's the most natural thing in the world to me to put a t-shirt on before going to sleep after having sex, so I always just assumed Jack just put his coat back on because it's cold.

But maybe it is a continuity error.  :D
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2006, 09:39:24 am »
I've always assumed the reason Annie Proulx mentioned the no underwear/no socks detail was to let us know Jack watched Ennis bathing. That was changed for the movie (I mean the watching, not the socks, though those, too) which is better, I think, because there's more tension in not-watching.

Movie Ennis probably wears socks because, as you guys point out, no socks would be absurdly uncomfortable, even for Ennis.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 10:27:08 am by latjoreme »

Offline nic

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Re: Morinig after
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2006, 10:14:20 am »
There have been some funnies in this thread that got me smiling...

... And in story and film, it's Jack who bitches about the "friggin' cold" weather.

Well, Jack bitches about a lot of things for a boy!!

...Movie Ennis probably wears socks because, as you guys point out, no socks would be absurdly uncomfortable, even for Ennis.


 :laugh:  :laugh:

This is yet another fascintaing scene, superbly acted.  I found when I was watching the film for the first time, even though I knew the story, I couldn't tell they were getting close enough to get it on at this stage until we got to Ennis sleeping outside the tent the night before.  On that first viewing I missed a lot of the subtle getting-to-know-you details.  Now I view it as a build up & the FNIT is a massive realease of tension for me as the viewer, not just the guys.  So it is realy incredible how the next morning a different kind of tension is immediately brought to the viewer again, that of not being able to determine Ennis's reaction.  No matter how many times you see it, that feeling of Jack's pensiveness & Ennis's turmoil is there, almost palpable.   
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2006, 10:37:59 am »
So it is realy incredible how the next morning a different kind of tension is immediately brought to the viewer again, that of not being able to determine Ennis's reaction. 

I was just reading elsewhere(the indiscernible details thread) a post, copied from imdb, by a guy who wasn't that crazy about the movie and doesn't get why other people are, or say they are. Anyway, your mention of not being able to determine Ennis' reaction made me think -- maybe some people, like that guy, just aren't comfortable with ambiguity. Maybe they see a scene like that and think, oh, Ennis is probably upset (or whatever) but his reaction isn't entirely clear, therefore the scene is flawed. Whereas many of US see the scene and think, isn't it great that we don't know exactly what he's thinking and have to go into his head and try to figure it out for ourselves, and maybe not every viewer will come up with the same answer?

And not just that scene -- lots of scenes. Or, like you, on first viewing I missed a lot of the subtle getting-to-know-you details, too. Some people would say they're just not there, whereas people who love the movie either saw them immediately or had the patience to try and find them.


Offline Mikaela

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2006, 01:19:52 pm »
Quote
I think we need to see all the other takes of the first tent scene to find out. You know, to see if Jack takes off his jacket in all of them. Supposedly Jake tends to play his takes quite differently from one another...

You *do* know that would of necessity make me think he may have taken off *more* clothes in one or more of those 13 takes?  :P Yes, I agree now more than ever that we do need to see all the takes.  ;)


Sorry everyone if this is lowering the tone of the thread too much. I'm in a slightly silly mood. It's Friday evening, I really should smarten up and head on over to a Social. Or sumphin'.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Morinig after
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2006, 09:13:12 pm »
This is yet another fascintaing scene, superbly acted.  I found when I was watching the film for the first time, even though I knew the story, I couldn't tell they were getting close enough to get it on at this stage until we got to Ennis sleeping outside the tent the night before.  On that first viewing I missed a lot of the subtle getting-to-know-you details.  Now I view it as a build up & the FNIT is a massive realease of tension for me as the viewer, not just the guys.  So it is realy incredible how the next morning a different kind of tension is immediately brought to the viewer again, that of not being able to determine Ennis's reaction.  No matter how many times you see it, that feeling of Jack's pensiveness & Ennis's turmoil is there, almost palpable.   

This is a really good post nic!  I like the emphasis on tension.  I wonder if we're shown Jack sleeping contentedly, all cozy in his jacket, etc. to emphasize the lack of tension in this one fleeting moment.  He's sleeping comfortably because he's happy and briefly *satisfied*.  So, that this moment of peacefulness is immediately disrupted and everything shifts back into tension once the boys are awake.  It certainly is a contrast to the way Ennis is sleeping.  I've always thought it was curious and sort of cute that he never even pulled his pants back on.  It certainly serves as a reminder to him that what happened last night *really* happened... that it wasn't a dream.  I think it also shows how vulnerable Ennis is about all of this.  It's also interesting that when we see Jack emerge from the tent he still has his own shirt untucked (it's one of my favorite details about his brief encounter with Ennis that morning... so Jack is shown also to be very vulnerable at this stage).  I've often wondered about what Ennis is seeing when he sits up as he's waking up and gazes at Jack.  Because, he looks at him for rather a long time... While we see that Jack has pulled his coat on... was he completely dressed otherwise?
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2006, 12:26:26 am »
What I found mystifying and a bit frustrating about this morning-after scene at first is what I ultimately grew to love about it: its ambiguity. What the hell IS Ennis thinking? When I first saw it, I thought his immediate reaction is regret -- the way you feel about actions taken while drunk -- but then he gives it more thought and eventually comes around. But now I think he is just taking time to process it.

He had done something on impulse that he never, ever expected to do. Totally against his own rules. Yet he also realizes it's something that at some level he always wanted to do -- with Jack and maybe others before that. (When he looks back at Jack, then pulls up his pants, his expression isn't rueful -- more like confused, or pensive.) As he's riding along toward the sheep, he's trying to reconcile the contradiction between what he thinks he should do and what he actually wants to do (what he knows and what he tries to believe?). The dead sheep doesn't help -- at the very least it makes him feel guilty for neglecting the flock, and even if he doesn't see it as a reminder of Earl he must at least think of it as a bad omen about his actions.

Despite that, I think as the day goes on he realizes that this is his big chance for sexual/romantic happiness, and that if he can compartmentalize it some way ("one shot thing") and set the boundaries ("you know I ain't queer") then he can overlook his misgivings and go for it, until they leave Brokeback.

Anyway, as usual the most beautiful thing about this scene is the fact that his feelings and thoughts AREN'T obvious. He doesn't slap his forehead or sink his head into his hands or give a fist-pumping "yesssss!" or any of those other clues you can usually rely on in movies to telegraph the character's reaction. Instead, we can tell he's feeling something, but it's not clear exactly what, so we're forced to go into his head and try to figure it out for ourselves ... and, as always, to come up with personal and tentative and endlessly arguable interpretations.

Unlike, um, some movies, where the filmmakers apparently don't dare risk anyone in the audience being unsure for a moment about exactly what each character is feeling at any given time and use all the tricks in their book to make it clear ... unlike those, Brokeback just throws us in there and trusts us to come up with the answers on our own. There are no right or wrong answers,  but if we get can't handle the ambiguity it's our problem.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2006, 12:54:33 am »
What I found mystifying and a bit frustrating about this morning-after scene at first is what I ultimately grew to love about it: its ambiguity. What the hell IS Ennis thinking? When I first saw it, I thought his immediate reaction is regret -- the way you feel about actions taken while drunk -- but then he gives it more thought and eventually comes around. But now I think he is just taking time to process it.

He had done something on impulse that he never, ever expected to do. Totally against his own rules. Yet he also realizes it's something that at some level he always wanted to do -- with Jack and maybe others before that. (When he looks back at Jack, then pulls up his pants, his expression isn't rueful -- more like confused, or pensive.) As he's riding along toward the sheep, he's trying to reconcile the contradiction between what he thinks he should do and what he actually wants to do (what he knows and what he tries to believe?).

Certainly, the fact that Lee allows a huge amount of ambiguity to linger is one of the best aspects of the film, and certainly this sequence.  I love that as Ennis is riding up to the sheep he doesn't break down or give any further clues to his emotions.  It would seem that he might take the opportunity of being alone to do just that - break down or freak out.  But, he doesn't do that, he remains stoic as ever.  I think his relatively calm demeanor (or at least facial expression) adds tremendously to the ambiguity and also helps lessen the suspicion that regret is dominating his thoughts.  We really don't know if regret is even a factor... he could be freaking out (inside... riding away from Jack quickly) out of nothing other than confusion and a need to be alone.  But, as you said, the wonderful thing is that there are so few clues to even try to interpret his state of mind.

Don't laugh as I return to my favorite wind topic here... but I think the really obvious wind here and the deliberate *sound* of the wind indicates that something major is going on in Ennis's head regarding his sexuality (I'm stating the obvious here given that he's just lost his virginity).  The wind sounds a bit like white noise... which seems like a good metaphor for confusion in a really general sense.  I feel like this is the second most obvious moment in the film to illustrate the "Jack and the wind" idea (obviously second to the "look what the wind blew in" scene).  The wind in the morning after scene kicks up the second that Ennis rides away.  I feel like the first moment that we notice the wind here is when the collar on Jack's coat starts to flutter and then the sound really kicks up.  There is no wind (or at least the wind is much less obvious) even moments earlier when Jack emerges from the tent.  The fact that the wind seems to follow Ennis up the hill in an almost angry way is really interesting to me.  In this case I think the wind is functioning very generally as a symbol for Ennis's sexuality (like it did at the very beginning of the movie before we're even introduced to Jack), but now it's reached a critical moment and someone (ie. Jack) to focus on.  The wind is sort of tormenting Ennis and his horse as they climb the hill not only because Ennis is in a state of confuison over his sexuality and what to do next... but the wind is also reflecting Jack's actual state of mind at the moment... hurt, angry and also confused.
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2006, 03:11:42 pm »
Thank you for the recent posts here, Amanda and Catherine. Rewarding reading. :)

What I found mystifying and a bit frustrating about this morning-after scene at first is what I ultimately grew to love about it: its ambiguity. What the hell IS Ennis thinking? When I first saw it, I thought his immediate reaction is regret -- the way you feel about actions taken while drunk -- but then he gives it more thought and eventually comes around. But now I think he is just taking time to process it.

I think I have a slightly different interpretation of Ennis's thoughts as he looks down on the sleeping Jack every time I see the scene! I love that. One interpretation is no longer than: "huh?

 I've also seen someone describe his looking out through the tent flap as "looking to see if the world is still standing, given that everything's been turned upside down". I like that description.

But once Ennis has left the tent, he seems to me to deliberately be concentrating very hard on the immediate tasks at hand; -  horse's gear, checking the gun - so as to *not* have to think on what just happened. It's as if he's decided he needs to be absolutely alone in the solitude of the mountain before he can let himself try to make any sense of the previous night - as if he can't take the chance at letting those thoughts form and develop where someone else might see - even if that someone else is Jack.


Quote
Unlike, um, some movies, where the filmmakers apparently don't dare risk anyone in the audience being unsure for a moment about exactly what each character is feeling at any given time and use all the tricks in their book to make it clear ... unlike those, Brokeback just throws us in there and trusts us to come up with the answers on our own. There are no right or wrong answers,  but if we get can't handle the ambiguity it's our problem.


I couldn't agree more about the ambiguity of BBM. It's impressive, amazingly consistent and one very important reason why everyone and every event in the film seems so human, so *real*, even after many, many viewings of the film. Real life and real persons always have more than one aspect to them, and more often than not they're very difficult to puzzle out, at least in full.

I am, however, extremely grateful that Ang Lee decided to forego the ambiguity in one respect: Through including the second night scene, he IMO removes any doubt or ambiguity about what has emerged between Ennis and Jack. Reading the short story one might conceivably be in some doubt concerning the depth of their emotions, - till significantly later in the story that is - but I don't think it's possible to watch the SNIT and not recognize that this is *so* much more than two guys seeking sexual gratification. The overwhelming depth of Ennis's emotions, the intensity of both their feelings, leave an impression that reverberates through all the scenes that follow.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 03:14:10 pm by Mikaela »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Morning after
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2006, 04:31:18 pm »
Through including the second night scene, he IMO removes any doubt or ambiguity about what has emerged between Ennis and Jack. Reading the short story one might conceivably be in some doubt concerning the depth of their emotions, - till significantly later in the story that is - but I don't think it's possible to watch the SNIT and not recognize that this is *so* much more than two guys seeking sexual gratification. The overwhelming depth of Ennis's emotions, the intensity of both their feelings, leave an impression that reverberates through all the scenes that follow.

So true and well put, Mikaela! I am glad of that, too.  Apparently it is POSSIBLE to watch TS2 and not recognize that it's about more than sex (I've seen that comment on imdb a lot) -- but only if you're stupid.