Why are we like this?

[Rayn]

Hey moremojo and Rayn,
 
 I'm glad you enjoyed my post and thanks for the compliments. To add to this conversation I was wondering about a couple of things that happen at the end of Brokeback. I should go back and look but I'm pretty sure when we see the view through Ennis's window at the end there are no mountains to be seen, just prairie. Could this be symbolic of Ennis's no longer looking for Jack in the mountains but instead finally living together with Jack in his home (i.e.- the shirts). I wonder about this because Proulx writes in the short story that Ennis didn't want to "know Jack was...to be buried on the grieving plain." Could the view of the prairie be Ennis's acceptance of the loss of Jack?
 Another point I wonder about is, if Ennis was relying on those trips to the mountain as an attempt at having the best of both worlds (being with Jack, but being able to remain safe in his shell) was it maybe for the best that he wasn't allowed to get the ashes from the Twists?
If Ennis had spread the ashes of Jack on Brokeback would he have just returned there over and over by himself, still trying to recapture that summer. Would being able to go back to Brokeback and be with Jack whenever he wanted (even if Jack was only there in spirit and ash), be enough for him not to move on? Again maybe this ties in with the image of the prairie in the final shoot as being symbolic of Ennis having moved on from, although not forgotten about or stopped loving, Jack.
  I'm new to Bettermost and have really enjoyed the posts I've read from you guys in other parts of the forums while I've been exploring. Thanks again for the positive replies.

Hi TheravadaAskesis,

     I don't think anyone can give "an answer" to your question outside of speculation and guesses.  Since art, especially film, can be interpreted in many ways, it's nearly impossible to come to any "one answer" that can cover all bases.  I mean, we can answer for ourselves, which is formulating opinions and interpretations, but there are many views, many angles to any picture and depending on where one sits can change the view one gets, eh?

     So, here's some of my views:  I think it would have been good for the Twists to give Ennis Jack's ashes.  Jack wanted to be on Brokeback Mt and it probably would have helped Ennis with moving on.  I don't think Ennis is likely to ever forget Jack or the Mt, but I think he will, as time moves on, be able to live with the complete memory of both the joy and sadness there.

     The last frame of the movie is pretty clear, as you say, there is no more mountain.  The mountain is in the postcard, a reality only in Ennis' mind and heart.  Without Jack, the mountain is only a mountain, beautiful for many reasons, outside their friendship.  In truth, Jack was "the mountain" for Ennis.  He was a refuge, an escape, a loved one, but an element (person) that caused Ennis anxiety and fear too (not Jack the  man, but the relationship they had).  Mountains came be dangerous places too. One must be careful in mountains, as careful as one is in friendships.

     I think Ennis accepts Jack's death though, it's just gonna take time for him to move on.  I also think Ennis will return to mountains, maybe not Brokeback, but he did love the mountains.  In fact, in the book it says they never returned to Brokeback Mt.  They always went to other similar places.   I see Ennis living near or in mountains the rest of his life.

    Hope that helps some...

Rayn

     

[TheravadaAskesis]

  In truth, Jack was "the mountain" for Ennis.  He was a refuge, an escape, a loved one, but an element (person) that caused Ennis anxiety and fear too (not Jack the man, but the relationship they had).  Mountains came be dangerous places too. One must be careful in mountains, as careful as one is in friendships.

 Hi Rayn,

 I agree completely. Art is subjective and open to interpretation. The way I interpret different parts of this movie changes with each viewing and also through exposure to the ideas of others who have watched it. In fact some of my interpretations have changed back and forth between alternative possibilities so often that they are now stuck in some kind of limbo, and the mood I'm in watching the movie colors which interpretation I'll accept for that viewing. I guess I was trying more to just put out more possibilities as opposed to asking if they were "the" correct answer. Sorry I should have been a little clearer .

 But as far as putting out different possibilities goes, the quote from above really struck me. I'd never thought of the mountain being symbolic of Jack. The idea of needing to be as careful on mountains as you are in friendships is incredibly well put. I posted a thread on IMDB awhile back about the use of water as symbolism in the movie and somebody replied that the characters in the film could be seen as representing different elements, but I never considered who the overall environment could have represented. If asked I probably would have said Ennis (tough, complex, stormy) but you make a good point about it representing Jack and what he meant to Ennis as well. It makes me wonder about who the "mountains" in my life are. Yet another reason to dwell on Brokeback, this movie just keeps bringing up questions. Thanks for the ideas,

                                         TheravadaAskesis

[moremojo]

Hi, all--

Just wanted to affirm that, for my part, I too find the film's ending (unlike the story) hopeful, signified primarily by Ennis's decision to attend his daughter's wedding--a significant gesture of sacrifice for love's sake. Ennis may not find the fulfillment of romantic love (tied in with Jack, who is now deceased), but he has the love of his daughter, at least, and all kinds of love, whatever they may be, are precious in this all-too lonely and harsh world of ours.

As for the closing shot, it's worth emphasizing that, while we see no mountain outside the window, we do see the wind gently swaying the green field that can be seen there...and the wind, in the film, is a consistent metaphor for Jack. In windy Wyoming, Ennis will forever be reminded of his once and present love.

[Rayn]

What a film - so many emotions twisting and turning and churning.  Great.  Merrily

Yes, it's the mix and many layers of meaning and emotions that make the movie and the story such excellent works.

RR

[Penthesilea]

As for the closing shot, it's worth emphasizing that, while we see no mountain outside the window, we do see the wind gently swaying the green field that can be seen there...and the wind, in the film, is a consistent metaphor for Jack. In windy Wyoming, Ennis will forever be reminded of his once and present love.

I posted this quote a while ago in the Jack and the wind thread, but it fits so nicely here and the newer folks might not have seen it.

"You know where those winds come from? Well, this country up here is so close to paradise you can feel the breezes from heaven. That wind comes from the angels' wings. When they flap their wings the wind comes right down this valley."

The quote is by Buffalo Bill Cody and I found it in my Wyoming travel guide.

Just like you said, Scott. Through the wind, Jack, the ministering angel, will always be present in Ennis' life.

[moremojo]

I wonder if Annie Proulx knows of that Buffalo Bill quote--it seems so prescient of some of the motifs and suggestions inherent in both story and film. Thanks for sharing it here as well! 

[belbbmfan]

"You know where those winds come from? Well, this country up here is so close to paradise you can feel the breezes from heaven. That wind comes from the angels' wings. When they flap their wings the wind comes right down this valley."

The quote is by Buffalo Bill Cody and I found it in my Wyoming travel guide.

Those are beautiful, comforting words.

[Artiste]

Front-Ranger, may I say likewise to your post:

  FOr one thing, I have to start out by giving credit to Annie Proulx for developing an eponymous story that applies to everyone no matter what our age, gender, orientation, location, etc. 

..........

Yes, we do get Annie's story, and we still keep on finding her circles of life, her joies-de-vie, she encircles us with, with wonder every day!!

More to come... from all of us and guests!! WE wonder like Annie!!

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Another big factor, if not the biggest, in the movie is regrets. It's apparent that the majority of people here on BM (and I think also on DC) are not teenagers or in their twenties anymore. I'd say most of us are not too far from 40 or older than 40.

It's logical: when you're 40, you already have half of your life behind you. You are old enough to have some life experiences. We all make mistakes in our lives, turn the wrong way, make wrong decisions. The longer you live, the more chances to make wrong decisions. Only few people manage to reach 40 without having some things in their life they truly regret.

So regret is another common factor

In a nutshell,,regret,turning right instead of left,realising too late and then having to live with the consquences.The grief and sheer desolation of knowing the clock cannot be turned back.
Coupled with I would guess in several cases a love lost,given up on or just plain impossible.Nothing turning out the way we maybe planned or envisaged it in youth.

In my case coupled with watching my kids and hoping they get it 'RIGHT'.the jealousy of youth and all that promise waiting to reach its potential,in direct contradiction with,in my case the fact that I did not get it right.

Finally the vain hope that just maybe its not too late.At least to make some changes.
For those who view beyond the movie,it can literally be life changing,and in some cases reaffirming.
Very astute writer and observer of the human condition as a whole,depicted by amazing actors and handled with extraordinary sensitivity by the director.

It IS the human condition.To want to love and be loved,and for most of us,to err from the moral highway(unless you are perfect,not me) to experience the guilt associated with that.Then as the years pass to reflect on what has transpired and attempt to put it in some perspective.

The film almost invites/gives permission for us to allow those feelings.Indeed to wallow in them and give full vent.And why not,for many of us they were very painful and hidden for too long.
For those not affected I suspect they are too busy feeling smug about their perfect lives,or portraying that facade.

Sorry if that sounds condescending.I just think some people really feel and others put on  very good show of feeling.

[Artiste]

Why are we like this?

Yes, we regret some past experiences!

We also can advance to our daily and future, and enrich our next ones more!! ??

WE can all create more and more happiness, as Annie and the BM movie brings us all hope!! And we all become HAPPIER, and happier!!
Au revoir,
hugs!!