Author Topic: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes  (Read 8645 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« on: June 18, 2006, 10:10:56 pm »
In various threads, the differences between the first two tent scenes have come up and I thought the topic deserved its own thread.  These two scenes that are supposed to take place on consecutive nights really are a study in contrasts.  The first scene is predicated on the notion of cold... Ennis is cold so he comes into the tent... the fire has died out and Jack is bundled in his coat to keep warm.  Also the lighting in this scene is very blue, black, grey and cold compared to the warmth of the second tent scene.  The second scene happens as the fire is still roaring and Ennis is warm enough by the fire to not need his jacket.  And, Jack does not need to call out to Ennis in order to get him to enter the tent.  And, Jack is warm enough to lie there comfortably without a shirt.  So, what has happened in terms of Ennis's state of mind between the chat on the mountaintop near the sheep and this huge moment when he decides to go to Jack again?  Why are their heads pointed in opposite directions in the two different tent scenes?  How much intimacy is expressed in scene one vs. scene two?

 :-*
« Last Edit: June 19, 2006, 12:31:28 am by atz75 »
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 10:31:49 pm »
Well, I think what's happened in Ennis' head is just coming to terms with what was there all along.

I've said before that I so relate to the contrasts here because I lived them.  I had ferocious animal chemistry with a guy I worked and hung out with for several months before we finally consummated our lurking passion.  And when we did, it was really kind of violent (but SO good...).  The next night, and it really was the next night, I had a party at my apartment for all my co-workers, and I worried all day he wouldn't show because he had been kind of embarassed and cold towards me that morning.  He did show.  And I remember one particular moment, when we sat on opposite sides of the room, and my eyes met his, which were boring into my soul.  Everyone else couldn't leave fast enough.  And when they finally did and we were alone, we wordlessly worked our way to the bedroom, and he was the most tender and sweet that I ever remember him.  I thought he was The One.  Well, I thought that the moment I laid eyes on him.

What was the question?  ;)  Oh, yeah.  Seriously, I think that in Jack, Ennis found not only the friend but the lover he'd always dreamed of having but was afraid to admit to himself he was dreaming of.  I think the "You know I ain't queer" was him saying to himself and to society that he wasn't what he feared he was, and *not* saying that specifically to Jack.  I think he thought about him all day and wanted him more than he could begin to understand.  He saw his opportunity at the campfire, felt emboldened by the heat of it (and had to know deep down that Jack would welcome it), and went for it.
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 11:10:21 pm »
Hi
I can't add anthing to what has been said about the 2nd scene, Jack , being so gentle and loving to Ennis, letting him know that this is not a "one shot thing" by his actions. As to differed dress I  would guess it mover the weather than anyting else and that their facing oppisite way may be a lack of continunity as in some other scenes.
In the first scene the fire had died out, the reason Ennis was in the tent in the first place so the lighting would be different. There is more than just rough sex though, Both are touching faces, forehead to forehead and Jack is willing to let Ennis take charge. Ennis DOES acknowlege Jack when he leave the next morning "Yep....come on(to the horse) same as he did when Jack said earlier "You won't get much sleep ,I tell you that".
As I said before after their talk on the mountian, notice this is one time where a scene is held, I think they remained up there, sitting close in silence for quite sometime until it was time to go back to camp and fix supper. Remember that Jack had made a special trip to see Ennis. At camp I don't think much if anything was said but each was perhaps feeling the warmth of their new bond in anticipation and hesitation-Ennis more than Jack-of what was next..
« Last Edit: June 19, 2006, 12:34:02 am by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 12:27:49 am »
I like that they're both wearing at least one layer less of clothing in the second tent scene. Sure, the fire is still high and so it's warmer -- that makes it technically accurate. But it's metaphorically accurate, too -- they've moved one step further toward intimacy.

Like Annie Proulx's sayying "You can't have Jack without Ennis" (or is it the other way around?) I always feel like you can't have the first tent scene without the second, or the other way around. (Not to say it's not possible -- as many of us can testify from personal experience!) But they are so perfectly complementary that, together with the reunion scene, they all really round out the story of their relationship.

We've often quoted Heath's comment that each love scene tells a story in itself. In the most basic terms, the first tent scene is about lust, the second about love, the third about longing.

Also, what do people think happened between their "you know I aint queer" conversation and the scene immediately prior to TS2, where Jack is waiting in the tent and Ennis is by the fire?

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 12:47:29 am »
Well, I think what's happened in Ennis' head is just coming to terms with what was there all along.

I've said before that I so relate to the contrasts here because I lived them.  I had ferocious animal chemistry with a guy I worked and hung out with for several months before we finally consummated our lurking passion.  And when we did, it was really kind of violent (but SO good...).  The next night, and it really was the next night, I had a party at my apartment for all my co-workers, and I worried all day he wouldn't show because he had been kind of embarassed and cold towards me that morning.  He did show.  And I remember one particular moment, when we sat on opposite sides of the room, and my eyes met his, which were boring into my soul.  Everyone else couldn't leave fast enough.  And when they finally did and we were alone, we wordlessly worked our way to the bedroom, and he was the most tender and sweet that I ever remember him.  I thought he was The One.  Well, I thought that the moment I laid eyes on him.

What was the question?  ;)  Oh, yeah.  Seriously, I think that in Jack, Ennis found not only the friend but the lover he'd always dreamed of having but was afraid to admit to himself he was dreaming of.  I think the "You know I ain't queer" was him saying to himself and to society that he wasn't what he feared he was, and *not* saying that specifically to Jack.  I think he thought about him all day and wanted him more than he could begin to understand.  He saw his opportunity at the campfire, felt emboldened by the heat of it (and had to know deep down that Jack would welcome it), and went for it.

Yikes!  ednbarby, this post is too hot to touch!  Thanks for that!



and that their facing oppisite way may be a lack of continunity as in some other scenes.

Ennis DOES acknowlege Jack when he leave the next morning "Yep....come on(to the horse) same as he did when Jack said earlier "You won't get much sleep ,I tell you that".

jpwagoneer, I'm guessing that they're facing opposite directions in the two scenes, maybe simply to emphasize to the audience that the two encounters are vastly different.  I somehow don't feel like this is a continuity error.  I'd think that these two scene are so crucial to the film and so attention-getting (everyone would know that audiences, critics, etc. would fixate on these scenes) that they'd be very careful and deliberate with them.  I think it's an interesting idea to suggest that Ennis acknowledges Jack when he rides away... but if he does it's so subtle and ambiguous to leave other possible interpretations open.  I've always heard his "Yep" as a prod to the horse... but it would be nice to think he's answering Jack.  Still, Jack doesn't seem too pleased with this exchange.

Katherine, I really like the idea that layers of clothing have lots of meaning, especially in scenes like this.   One thing that had to happen between the "I ain't no queer" conversation and the second tent scene... is Ennis had to change clothes.  He's wearing a different shirt than he was wearing in the first tent scene.  The first tent scene shirt is the one with broad blue and brown intersecting stripes and the second tent scene shirt is the shirt that he finds at the end in Jack's closet.  I'd love to imagine the level of shyness that probably accompanied Ennis bathing in front of Jack this time.  Or would they have dared to be flirty...?
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 01:07:56 am »
Yikes!  ednbarby, this post is too hot to touch!  Thanks for that!



jpwagoneer, I'm guessing that they're facing opposite directions in the two scenes, maybe simply to emphasize to the audience that the two encounters are vastly different.  I somehow don't feel like this is a continuity error.  I'd think that these two scene are so crucial to the film and so attention-getting (everyone would know that audiences, critics, etc. would fixate on these scenes) that they'd be very careful and deliberate with them.  I think it's an interesting idea to suggest that Ennis acknowledges Jack when he rides away... but if he does it's so subtle and ambiguous to leave other possible interpretations open.  I've always heard his "Yep" as a prod to the horse... but it would be nice to think he's answering Jack.  Still, Jack doesn't seem too pleased with this exchange.

Katherine, I really like the idea that layers of clothing have lots of meaning, especially in scenes like this.   One thing that had to happen between the "I ain't no queer" conversation and the second tent scene... is Ennis had to change clothes.  He's wearing a different shirt than he was wearing in the first tent scene.  The first tent scene shirt is the one with broad blue and brown intersecting stripes and the second tent scene shirt is the shirt that he finds at the end in Jack's closet.  I'd love to imagine the level of shyness that probably accompanied Ennis bathing in front of Jack this time.  Or would they have dared to be flirty...?

And remember Jack washed that shirt for Ennis as well as his own clothes as well as himself (also for Ennis). I like to think they made their supper together and cleaned up dishes etc. as well finding comfort in their newfound closeness but not quite understsnding it. I am sure Jack did everything he could to make Ennis feel confortable and had his clean clothes laid out. Ennis probabily bathed as always but under the shroud of darkness.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2006, 08:48:43 am »
the second tent scene shirt is the shirt that he finds at the end in Jack's closet.

Oooh. Another reason for Jack to feel sentimental enough to steal it!

I think that in Jack, Ennis found not only the friend but the lover he'd always dreamed of having but was afraid to admit to himself he was dreaming of.  I think the "You know I ain't queer" was him saying to himself and to society that he wasn't what he feared he was, and *not* saying that specifically to Jack.  I think he thought about him all day and wanted him more than he could begin to understand.  He saw his opportunity at the campfire, felt emboldened by the heat of it (and had to know deep down that Jack would welcome it), and went for it.

Barb, this is exactly how I see it. Although I have always assumed that, not only did Ennis know Jack would welcome it, but that tacitly they both expected it and knew that each other expected it, too.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2006, 09:28:19 am »
Barb, this is exactly how I see it. Although I have always assumed that, not only did Ennis know Jack would welcome it, but that tacitly they both expected it and knew that each other expected it, too.

Yes, definitely.  (I realize I was a little murky in my last description of it - you are right.)

As to what transpired between the conversation on the hill and Ennis entering the tent, I like the way JP thinks of it - that they sat in silence for a long time before returning to camp, and that the silence was not an uncomfortable one.  And they made and ate and cleaned up after supper together like an old married couple, again in comfortable silence (or mostly silence).

I also like how you mentioned, JP, that the first tent scene is not just rough sex.  I never understand how some people seem to see it as only that.  I see the hands on each other's faces and the foreheads touching as being very tender.  Jack also looks very deeply into Ennis' eyes as if to ask permission, and Ennis looks deeply back as if to grant it.  There's no forcing of anything on anyone.  It's just the shape such a lurking passion and lust as theirs takes sometimes when you finally throw caution to the wind and just go for it.  Add to that the fact that at least in Ennis' case, this is the general passion he's had and been repressing all his adolescent life, and KA-BOOM.  Makes perfect sense to me.  But like Katherine said, I do think the second tent scene is imperative, too, to show that what truly underlies the passion and lust in their case is love.
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2006, 09:32:59 am »
Heresy:

You know, it's possible that more time passes between the 1st and 2nd tent scenes than just the one day. Not something I'd thought of until reading the 2004 script (in which the writers really seemed to be struggling with how to portray the relationship after the 1st night -- it falls somewhere between the story version, where they keep having sex but seem to be in denial about it the entire time, and the movie version, in which the 2nd tent scene establishes that this is about love and not only sex). But you know... it's possible that the events we see between the two tent scenes took place over several days. (The threatening music and threatening sky have always connected them into a single day in my mind, but... well, there aren't any clear time markers that I'm certain of.)

I know that I, at least, can't imagine the silence after the hill conversation as comfortable at all. I mean, they don't look at each other during the conversation. Ennis is essentially still trying to deny that anything happened, or that anything is going to continue happening. Jack has his "I'm not saying what I really feel" mask on when he says "me neither." I don't see comfort anywhere in that scene -- I see confusion and longing, but not comfort.
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2006, 10:25:28 am »
Quote
I don't see comfort anywhere in that scene -- I see confusion and longing, but not comfort.

The discomfort has a different source in each of them. Ennis's is based on his confused and ashamed  "I'm not queer!?! but I can't help but follow up on this anyway...!" reaction - Jack's comes from Ennis showing such strong reluctance to address what happened as well as such an (at best) ambiguous reaction to it all.

Whether one or more days passed, Ennis seems to continue struggling much in the same vein until he yields to Jack's kiss and caresses in the SNIT.

But something must still have happened inbetween IMO, because at the beginning of the SNIT *Jack* is more relaxed and more confident. He's giving Ennis the time he needs, but also seems to feel relatively sure about what will transpire. When Ennis approaches the tent, Jack seems to anticipate and even expect it - it's as if he was certain it would happen but thought Ennis might need a little more time.

All that could be based on Jack's interpretation of the "one shot thing we've got going" line - but I'd absolutely like to think it's based on something more, something that happens after Jack's  "me neither" and before the film picks up again. They must have talked some, or have let their eyes meet directly to do the talking for them - exchanged unguarded glances - or even touched; - at any rate some understanding has formed and passed between them that makes for less uneasiness on Jack's part (and probably also on Ennis's) than in the mountain scene we get to see.

I think there's no narrative need in the film version for the time period between the FNIT and SNIT to be more than one day, - the journey Ennis makes is still the same, and with the same emotional impact. Whether fast or slow, the direction and destination are the same. (Yes, I do use Brokeisms in my writing, haven't I mentioned that?  ::)  ) I do see what they were trying to do in the revised script though, where the understanding built more slowly and it took longer time for realization to hit.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2006, 10:30:15 am by Mikaela »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2006, 10:29:45 am »
Thanks, Mikaela.  This is just how I see it.  And what I mean by their time spent in silence together being "not uncomfortable."  I think some kind of understanding must have transpired between them, too, because like you I see Jack as not being surprised or overly relieved when Ennis enters the tent, but seeming to be thoughtfully expecting it - just giving him the time he needs, as you said.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 11:38:05 am »
I haven't read the other script, but it makes much more sense to me if it's just one day. It's hard enough to imagine how things would have gone between them for even a few hours, let alone days. And although there aren't any time markers, the fact that there aren't suggests that the single-day appearance is intentional. Also, both men look eager enough in TS2 that it's hard to imagine them biding their time for that long.

The scene on the hillside is tense, but that conversation may serve to ease the tension. Ennis gets to state the groundrules: one-shot thing, not queer. He's reassured when Jack agrees and reminds him that it can be their own little secret in this secluded spot (nobody's business but ours).

So I imagine the time between hillside and TS2 as being quiet but more relaxed. They may not exchange many words, but they've reached an understanding: "without saying anything about it, they both knew this is how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned." Well, they wouldn't be entirely relaxed -- there'd be lots of sexual tension and anticipation. But not as much fear on Ennis' part.


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 08:17:13 pm »
I also like how you mentioned, JP, that the first tent scene is not just rough sex.  I never understand how some people seem to see it as only that.  I see the hands on each other's faces and the foreheads touching as being very tender.  Jack also looks very deeply into Ennis' eyes as if to ask permission, and Ennis looks deeply back as if to grant it.  There's no forcing of anything on anyone.  It's just the shape such a lurking passion and lust as theirs takes sometimes when you finally throw caution to the wind and just go for it.  Add to that the fact that at least in Ennis' case, this is the general passion he's had and been repressing all his adolescent life, and KA-BOOM.  Makes perfect sense to me.  But like Katherine said, I do think the second tent scene is imperative, too, to show that what truly underlies the passion and lust in their case is love.

Yup, I agree that the first tent scene is much more than rough sex.  I think this is why we're all fixating on the "hand holding"  or even the way that Ennis has his arm around Jack's waist... because these things point to a level of intimacy and caring.  I think you're right too, that the little things like Ennis stroking Jack's hair and the amount of time they spend looking at each other mean that a kind of unspoken communication is happening.

About the problem of how much time passes between scenes... You're all right, that there really isn't a concrete reason to know how much time goes by,  but
I think the urgency of this situation wouldn't allow it to be more than the consecutive day/night scenario.  I mean Jack couldn't even wait a whole day to have the conversation with Ennis.  No, I think it would have driven them both nuts to try to leave the issue on the "back burner" for even one night.  So, here's a tiny, tiny, tiny detail that I've always noticed right at the end of their chat on the hill top.  Jack sort of taps his toes together a little bit as he lies there... to me it always looks a bit like a minute sign that some of the tension really has been released.

I have always assumed that, not only did Ennis know Jack would welcome it, but that tacitly they both expected it and knew that each other expected it, too.
 

Yes, I think they both could read through the lines of that chat on the hill top.  They had to get the "pleasantries" behind them and make their excuses and posture a bit for one another, but they still both knew what they wanted for real.  I love how this is handled in the book... "without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned.  As it did go."  Even though we see the boys talking about their situation right off the bat in the film, I think the filmmakers do a great job conveying (in some mysterious and subtle way) that they still both knew exactly what would happen that night, what they both wanted, etc..  And, they didn't need to talk about that aspect of things to know the truth or to know how they would proceed.  The abrupt jump from the chat to the SNIT helps show that their silent/ inarticulate actions are quite a bit more frank and honest than their conversation will allow at this point.


The contrast between what happens following FNIT and SNIT is amazing too when you think of it.  After the first night, we witness this slow, drawn-out sequence all about tension and confusion.  But, after the SNIT we see the happy tussle.  I've been convinced on other threads that the happy tussle really does happen some time later than the literal morning after SNIT.  But, the way the scenes are edited to appear adjacent to each other certainly helps promote the idea of contrast between the two scenes.
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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2006, 09:51:10 am »
I agree with you, latjoreme, on the "one-shot thing" conversation happening on the day after TS1. And also about the conversation clearing the air and establishing their roles and their understanding. I especially love how everything occurs in twos in this film, not only the characters and things but also the actions. This reminds me of the lassoing that Jack did on the last day on the mountain, and how we were going to compare it to TS1 and TS2. To do so, I need to watch the film again...it has been almost a month since I've seen it!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2006, 08:10:54 pm »
I need to watch the film again...it has been almost a month since I've seen it!

Heya Lee, well get yerself to a DVD player pronto!  I can't imagine going a month without watching BBM!  I can usually hold out for a week, but after that I've got no resistance.
 ::) ;)

Yeah, it is interesting that things tend to happen in pairs, or symmetrically or at least repeatedly in the movie.  Some of this would lead right back into the "ink-blot"/ bookend discussions.  I'd say that the sweetness of TS2 is echoed by the cuddling in the motel and then again (maybe) in the last tent scene in its quietness... just showing us Ennis sleeping peacefully with Jack in his arms.  And, likewise, the sort of raw passion of TS1 is echoed in the reunion kiss.  The speed in which those two encounters happen make them seem related too.  But, both TS1 and the reunion also each contain a touch of sweetness because in both cases Ennis caresses Jack's face/ head and ear... and because of the hand-holding in TS1 too, etc. 

One of my favorite differences between TS1 and TS2 is the issue of who's on top. [insert non-existent blushing smilie here].  Since I do believe that the two scenes happened consecutively, it's just amazing to me to note the change in tone from one to the other.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 09:58:32 pm by atz75 »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2006, 01:35:53 am »
[insert non-existent blushing smilie here]. 

 :laugh:

The two smileys that I would often find very useful that don't exist are blushing and drooling. They both would come in handy on this thread!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2006, 10:01:31 pm »
The two smileys that I would often find very useful that don't exist are blushing and drooling. They both would come in handy on this thread!

LOL, well Katherine in your lofty role as moderator, maybe you could lobby with the powers-that-be to see about rounding up some more/ new smilies.
 ;D
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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2006, 11:43:51 am »
I especially love the second tent scene because Ennis is in such a vulnerable state, but at the same time it is so clear that it is in Jack's arms that he feels SAFE, that's such a huge thing, and the whole scene exudes that, this is where the viewer becomes convinced that these two men belong together, that they only have each other and that they only feel safe and are able to be vulnerable in each other's arms.

 :'(

OMG - will we ever get enough of this scene?

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the First and Second Tent Scenes
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2006, 02:01:53 pm »
OMG - will we ever get enough of this scene?

NO.