At what moment in BBM did you realize that they were falling in love?

[brokeplex]

Artiste: Go to google and call up the various rare book dealers listed, you will find autographed copies of AP's books and her magazine article for sale. I'll let you find out the prices yourself.

Ennis is disappointed at many levels in the foreshortened summer work on Brokeback Mountain. He is disappointed that his "arcadia" experience with Jack is coming to an end, and he is disappointed that his wages will be reduced.

We may be reading too much into Ennis to believe that in Aug 1963 he was conscious of how deep his feelings were for Jack.

Ennis was in massive and profound denial about his sexuality, do not underestimate how denial can affect the conscious mind.

I believe that he finally consciously admitted to himself that he loved Jack only when he held the two shirts up to his face while in the closet at OMT's spread in 1983. One of the saddest tragedies in a tragic love story.

[myprivatejack]

Hi again,Brokeplex¡
I agree with you that Ennis doesn´t admit his love for Jack until he discovered he shirts in Twist home,but,don´t you think that this moment was the end of a long journey of self-discovering?A journey that perhaps began with the conversation with Cassie who,in some way,taught him what real love was.
I think he was very shocked at the end of their BBM summer because for a few weeks in his life,he felt loved and with someone who cared for him,-we must not forget that both of them were some uprooted boys...-.But at the same time,he knew he must put himself face to face with the real life,that one that doesn´t allow guys like them,he must keep on being a "real" man...And his affair with Jack and,above all,what he felt for him,were an important obstacle to  get it,´cause it had changed all  his  world,his life and his rules.I think Ennis,in some way,loved and hated Jack and himself for this changes.
Regarding to when I realised they were falling in love,I think that in the scene when Ennis speaks "more than in a year"they seem to be already quite smitten,IMO.

[brokeplex]

Hi again,Brokeplex¡
I agree with you that Ennis doesn´t admit his love for Jack until he discovered he shirts in Twist home,but,don´t you think that this moment was the end of a long journey?

You've made some great points ! But I am going to have to disagree with you on the most important point that you made. The central tragedy in this tragic story is that Ennis only begins his journey of self-awareness at age 40 after the shock of the death of the man that he loves(d). His painful epiphany in the closet is the beginning for Ennis to lead an "authentic" life (Sartre), or as I like to put it more in the American English I am comfortable with, a"justified" life (from a line in the Peckinpah film "Ride the High Country"). 

[Artiste]

Thanks myprivatejack, thanks Front-Ranger, and  thanks brokeplex!!!

Wow, sure is interesting are your comments!

Isn't love between two individuals much more too??

The first glances of Ennis and Jack, are they not also important??

Hugs!!!

Merry, Merry, Merry Christmas and Gay Holidays happy and safe to you and to all on earth!!

[Oregondoggie]

You've made some great points ! But I am going to have to disagree with you on the most important point that you made. The central tragedy in this tragic story is that Ennis only begins his journey of self-awareness at age 40 after the shock of the death of the man that he loves(d). His painful epiphany in the closet is the beginning for Ennis to lead an "authentic" life (Sartre), or as I like to put it more in the American English I am comfortable with, a"justified" life (from a line in the Peckinpah film "Ride the High Country"). 

Alas, the short story ends with the terrible riddle: "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it." 

Annie Proulx saw an older cowhand staring wistfully at the young men playing pool in a bar in Sheridan, Wyoming.  He is alone.

[moremojo]

Annie Proulx saw an older cowhand staring wistfully at the young men playing pool in a bar in Sheridan, Wyoming.  He is alone.

Yes, and in the story's italicized preface, there are distinct clues that many years have passed since Jack's death, and Ennis shows every sign of being quite alone. In the story, there is a strong implication that Jack's death marked the end of Ennis's emotional journey.

The movie, however, can (and does for some) lend itself to a more redemptive outcome for Ennis. The exchange with Junior in part shows that Ennis has learned valuable lessons from his experience with Jack, and is beginning to incorporate those lessons in his life.

It is interesting, brokeplex, that you invoke Ride the High Country. In the published BBM screenplay, in the post-Thanksgiving riding scene, Jack and Ennis are described in an authorial aside as meant to suggest Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea in that film.

[Artiste]

Thanks all of you!!

Oregondoggie you say: [Annie Proulx saw an older cowhand staring wistfully at the young men playing pool in a bar in Sheridan, Wyoming.  He is alone/i]
........

Is that the sort of a gay man, according to Annie? Being alone!! ??

If you are a gay man, young or old, should one be sad with that ending by Annie?? See that as the probable ending of one's life: being alone??

Do we, as spectators, see that too in the BM movie: such loneliness?

In that BM film, we can think or feel that Ennis and Jack were in love, but we do realise that is never to end that way!! Sad is the ending!! That is the hallmark of when we, as spectators, think that Ennis loves then Jack: I swear...?? Can that be a sad episode too, since Ennis is alone and sad!! in his trailer after his daughter announces her marriage ??

Hugs!!

May Christmas time be Merry (and not only sad one) as to reflect upon being Happy during then, and in the Gay Holidays!!

[Oregondoggie]

The short story is a tragedy, undiluted by a happy future for Ennis.  The movie changed this... possibly to accomodate the box office. 

BTW, the theme of this thread is about when do we realize they were falling in love.   Both the book and the movie seem to place this around the good time they have one evening at the campfire, talking and teasing each other.  Ennis "thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon."   In the movie there is also some good natured jostling after the elk is killed earlier...

[Artiste]

Thanks Oregondoggies! And thanks too to all others!!

Oregondoggies, since you mention that in the movie: there is also some good natured jostling after the elk is killed earlier...
 

..........
May I say that that jostling, and other tender moments too after, that leads me to think that those are also short times as scenes that leads me to think that Ennis and Jack are falling in love, more and more!!

What do you think Oregondoggies and  you all??

Hugs!! Merry Christmas and Gay Holidays!!

[brokeplex]

Yes, and in the story's italicized preface, there are distinct clues that many years have passed since Jack's death, and Ennis shows every sign of being quite alone. In the story, there is a strong implication that Jack's death marked the end of Ennis's emotional journey.

The movie, however, can (and does for some) lend itself to a more redemptive outcome for Ennis. The exchange with Junior in part shows that Ennis has learned valuable lessons from his experience with Jack, and is beginning to incorporate those lessons in his life.

It is interesting, brokeplex, that you invoke Ride the High Country. In the published BBM screenplay, in the post-Thanksgiving riding scene, Jack and Ennis are described in an authorial aside as meant to suggest Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea in that film.

I would suspect that Ennis never again had a close encounter with another man. Jack was it for him. But, that doesn't entirely mean an end to his journey towards a life of emotional self-acceptance and awareness. Ennis kept his ties to his daughters. He was invited to Junior's wedding, and in the ss he mused about the possibility of having to live temporarily with Junior and her husband. This implies a good relationship with both Junior and her roughneck husband. The Ennis that we first meet leaning next to Joe Aguirre's trailer was so closed up and afraid that it was difficult for him to make friends. Ennis grew as a result of his love for Jack, and finally his acceptance, albeit still "closeted", of that love.

"Ride the High Country" has always been one of my favorite Westerns. The motivation of the "hero" (the McCrea character) to lead and cause others to lead a 'justified' life, has always intrigued me. I see what you are saying about the visual imagery of the boys riding together, it does resemble Scott and McCrea, also the images of Ennis leading the pack mules along the ridgeline paths seems also taken from the movie. Thanks for reminding me.